amdrecording
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Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
Dear Users, I'm currently finishing a massive orchestral template, and now I'm down to the bussing details. I was hoping to achieve a method of bussing that allows me to STEM things out with the click of a button. For example, when finished with a track, I can click export, then select the specific busses that I want to be separately exported. But I have a problem with the reverb! I want each stem to have reverb on it, but I can't think of a way to achieve that without having a SEPARATE plugin on each bus. I'd prefer not to take the CPU hit by having these separate verbs on. For example: All Clarinet/Flute/Bassoon/Oboe tracks get sent to my WOODWIND BUS, then this bus can be separately stemmed when I'm outputting to audio. Is there a way for me to have ONE REVERB that all busses can feed from, but at the same time keep those busses separate and stemmable? AM I MAKING ANY SENSE?!?  Thanks- -Alex
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/08 18:28:02
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Is there a way for me to have ONE REVERB that all busses can feed from, but at the same time keep those busses separate and stemmable? Make the bus's with no effects for all the stems you want and then make a send on each bus going to a bus with just a reverb on it. You can thank me later..... Cj
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/08 18:32:25
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Thanks for the quick reply CJ- I tried that, but here's the problem-- When I bounce a single BUS (woodwinds, for example), it comes out dry. Basically, if I want to stem things out WITH reverb, does that mean I need separate reverbs for EVERY bus? Sorry if I'm missing your solution. This whole concept is still pretty new to me. Thanks!
post edited by amdrecording - 2010/02/08 18:35:36
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/08 18:43:30
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your not selecting the correct bounce source. Use main outs or what you hear or bus's as your source. Try each and see what works best for you
Cj
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/08 19:24:37
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So I'm not getting this. Let me make sure I'm explaining this correctly:
When I export my audio, I want to be able to choose "Source Category" ... "Buses", then select the specific stems that I want to individually bounce. The problem I'm running into is that if I want to individually bounce a stem (brass or something), it shows up without reverb, even if I create a separate reverb bus with a send... I still can't figure out a solution to this, other than having separate reverbs for each bus.
Would it help if I sent screenshots? CJ- what do you think?
Thanks!
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stickman393
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/08 19:51:44
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What if you solo the instrument bus, but export from master?
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/08 20:00:57
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stickman393
What if you solo the instrument bus, but export from master?
That would totally work, except that I'm looking for a one-click stemming solution. If I solo'ed things, I'd have to separately stem all elements out, and it's annoyingly time consuming. It looks like having 1 reverb/bus is the only solution I can find! -Alex
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CP
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 01:06:53
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Are you inserting a send on the bus to the reverb?
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papa2005
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 04:03:44
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amdrecording
stickman393
What if you solo the instrument bus, but export from master?
That would totally work, except that I'm looking for a one-click stemming solution. If I solo'ed things, I'd have to separately stem all elements out, and it's annoyingly time consuming.
It looks like having 1 reverb/bus is the only solution I can find!
-Alex
There aren't many "one-click" solutions to complex processes such as what you're wanting to do...
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 10:28:16
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yeah, I know that it's a complex process. But with 6 reverbs running simultaneously, it is feasible, provided the stems are straight forward (which they rarely are). and I am inserting a send on the BRASS bus, going to a separate reverb bus, to test. Is this correct?
post edited by amdrecording - 2010/02/09 10:30:32
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wynnsong
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 14:27:23
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I know what you are trying to do... I do it all the time Yep you need to have more reverb plugs going on each buss... There are a few good sounding reverb plugs that aren't hard on the processor (Arts Acoustic is one I can think of)...Or go Win 7 x64 and have plenty of horsepower!
Sonar kicks some serious but in x64 land.
It's a pain but one button printing is great. Best of luck!
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 14:30:44
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Arts Acoustic? cool. what other reverbs would you suggest that sound good BUT don't smack the processor too bad?
I've been using Sonitus, and not HATING it. Also not loving it.
Thanks!
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lionstar
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 15:05:37
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Hi Alex
Are you using one reverb for the woodwinds i.e. setting up different reverb send levels from each woodwind track to one main reverb?
If so you could try inserting the same reverb into each track and use the wet and dry mix in the reverb plugin to set the correct amount of each wind instrument, the either freeze or bounce each track, so when export the stems they will have the reverb printed into the stem.
Hope it helps
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wynnsong
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 16:50:51
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hmmm... Arts is what I would use for low load stuff. I purchased Altiverb and think that sounds best for Orchestra so far. At 64bit I can run it no sweat.
An option might be a UAD card to offload the reverb.
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Kev999
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 17:12:43
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Why not put all the woodwind tracks together in a single track folder. Then to solo the woodwind, click on the folder's solo button. Forget about soloing buses.
Or have I misunderstood what you are trying to achieve?
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 17:16:00
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it shows up without reverb, Select main outs as your sourse and do it like i said in post # 2. It works Cj
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wynnsong
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 23:49:54
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Hey CJ.....That's an interesting work around but I don't think it will achieve what he needs. The reverb bus will have all the other busses reverb in it. My clients want the ability for the stems to work independently with each other (i.e. if you mute the winds stem you won't hear their reverb) and the only way I know how to do that is to use multiple reverbs. It's not a big deal once the template is kosher but if you have to change if for a number of cues it can get problematic....
On some of our projects we have to print 5.1 stems as well as regular stems all sounding "final" that can be a challenge for sure.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/09 23:52:00
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The reverb bus will have all the other busses reverb in it. Not if you solo the stems, like he wants anyway... Cj
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mixmkr
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/10 00:41:54
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solo the stems... nice band name.
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RTGraham
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/10 11:40:12
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Hi Alex -
I've seen many engineers do one-click stem export in various DAWs, but I've never seen them do it without instantiating multiple reverbs. The only way to have a reverb *only* affect a certain stem is to only have that stem sending to it - so you do need a dedicated reverb for each stem.
Here's the good news, though: SONAR does *not* have to be able to handle all of those reverbs in real time. You're doing an offline export. So you can work with one reverb for mixing and monitoring purposes, then COPY THAT REVERB to multiple reverb busses - one bus per stem. To copy an existing effect, while preserving its settings, hold down Ctrl *before* you click and drag the effect to another bin.
For flexibility and speed, you can even have a "monitoring" reverb bus set up, that is shared amongst stem busses, and also have your per-stem reverb busses set up at the same time, with their effect bins bypassed and their bus outputs muted. Each stem would have a send to the common shared reverb, and also a send to its dedicated reverb. While mixing and monitoring, you would leave the common reverb open; while exporting, you would mute the common reverb, unmute the dedicated reverbs, un-bypass their bins, and export. Because it's an offline bounce, SONAR should still export properly even if it would have been too much for your computer to actually handle playing in real time.
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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rbowser
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/10 12:12:01
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CJ's simple solution is exactly what I do. Keeping with the Woodwinds example - each instrument is sent to a Woodwinds bus. That bus has a send going to the bus dedicated to reverb. If I want just one reverb unit for the whole project, I only need one instance of the reverb.
I feel that the complication for you, Alex, is that for some reason you're wanting to add reverb to your bounced tracks. It's better to keep your project more flexible, with all tracks kept totally dry, reverb processing only happening in real time playback and/or final mix down to 2-track.
Randy B.
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RTGraham
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/10 23:04:29
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rbowser
I feel that the complication for you, Alex, is that for some reason you're wanting to add reverb to your bounced tracks. It's better to keep your project more flexible, with all tracks kept totally dry, reverb processing only happening in real time playback and/or final mix down to 2-track.
It's not bounced *tracks* he's asking about, it's *stems*. Quite often mix engineers are asked to deliver not only a complete mix, but also the stems - and the stems include all tracks that make up the stem as well as the associated effects (including reverb). This is not an uncommon situation.
~~~~~~~~~~ Russell T. Graham Keys, Vocals, Songwriting, Production russell DOT graham AT rtgproductions DOT com www DOT myspace DOT com SLASH russelltgraham
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:09:23
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wynnsong
hmmm... Arts is what I would use for low load stuff. I purchased Altiverb and think that sounds best for Orchestra so far. At 64bit I can run it no sweat.
An option might be a UAD card to offload the reverb.
hmmm... Arts is what I would use for low load stuff. I purchased Altiverb and think that sounds best for Orchestra so far. At 64bit I can run it no sweat. An option might be a UAD card to offload the reverb. Kev999
Why not put all the woodwind tracks together in a single track folder. Then to solo the woodwind, click on the folder's solo button. Forget about soloing buses.
Or have I misunderstood what you are trying to achieve?
What I'm looking for is the ability to separate all instrument groups with just one click. If I have 8 separate instrument groups, stemming one group at a time by solo'ing track folders can be quite time consuming. Could mean hours of time wasted! I usually lose an entire night of sleep to get a project stemmed out correctly. RTGraham
Hi Alex -
I've seen many engineers do one-click stem export in various DAWs, but I've never seen them do it without instantiating multiple reverbs. The only way to have a reverb *only* affect a certain stem is to only have that stem sending to it - so you do need a dedicated reverb for each stem.
Here's the good news, though: SONAR does *not* have to be able to handle all of those reverbs in real time. You're doing an offline export. So you can work with one reverb for mixing and monitoring purposes, then COPY THAT REVERB to multiple reverb busses - one bus per stem. To copy an existing effect, while preserving its settings, hold down Ctrl *before* you click and drag the effect to another bin.
For flexibility and speed, you can even have a "monitoring" reverb bus set up, that is shared amongst stem busses, and also have your per-stem reverb busses set up at the same time, with their effect bins bypassed and their bus outputs muted. Each stem would have a send to the common shared reverb, and also a send to its dedicated reverb. While mixing and monitoring, you would leave the common reverb open; while exporting, you would mute the common reverb, unmute the dedicated reverbs, un-bypass their bins, and export. Because it's an offline bounce, SONAR should still export properly even if it would have been too much for your computer to actually handle playing in real time.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! This is a great workaround. I appreciate you sharing your methods! -Alex
www.alexdavismusic.com Music for Film, Dance and Multimedia
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:16:42
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RTGraham
rbowser
I feel that the complication for you, Alex, is that for some reason you're wanting to add reverb to your bounced tracks. It's better to keep your project more flexible, with all tracks kept totally dry, reverb processing only happening in real time playback and/or final mix down to 2-track.
It's not bounced *tracks* he's asking about, it's *stems*. Quite often mix engineers are asked to deliver not only a complete mix, but also the stems - and the stems include all tracks that make up the stem as well as the associated effects (including reverb). This is not an uncommon situation.
Exactly. CJaysMusic
The reverb bus will have all the other busses reverb in it.
Not if you solo the stems, like he wants anyway...
Cj
If I have to manually solo stems out, then I'll be up all night bouncing one file at a time. If I can bounce all stems at once, each with SEPARATE verb on it, I'll be home for dinner, with a much happier girlfriend.  mixmkr
solo the stems... nice band name.
www.alexdavismusic.com Music for Film, Dance and Multimedia
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:17:24
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this is what i said in my first post to you Make the bus's with no effects for all the stems you want and then make a send on each bus going to a bus with just a reverb on it.
Hey CJ.....That's an interesting work around but I don't think it will achieve what he needs. The reverb bus will have all the other busses reverb in it
not if you do what i said in my first post. You turn the send on for each stem you want Cj
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papa2005
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:21:14
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The problem is he wants a "one-click" method and that just doesn't exist...Why he's "married" to one-click (and isn't willing to do the proper work) is beyond me....
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:22:45
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Hey CJ, the problem is that reverb isn't separated that way. I want each stem to have its own reverb on it. If all stems are going out to a reverb bus, I won't be able to separate the verb out. Isn't that true? I tried testing your method, and it doesn't seem to work for me. It could be that I'm doing something wrong.
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:24:23
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The problem is he wants a "one-click" method and that just doesn't exist...Why he's "married" to one-click (and isn't willing to do the proper work) is beyond me.... Because if I have 15 cues to stem out, that can take HOURS to do manually. And it's such a boring waste of time to sit in front of the computer and bounce for hours at a time. And for the record, it DOES exist! I know several film composers that employ this method. I was just looking for a way that didn't require several identical reverbs running simultaneously.
post edited by amdrecording - 2010/02/11 11:26:23
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CJaysMusic
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:26:11
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Yea, Papa. But clicking a send on and off is kinda a one click solution. You clcik it on and then off. You do that for each stem you want.
Lets say you have 5 stems (5 bus's) with no effects, just one send to another bus with a reverb. All you need to do is enable the send for the drums stem or any other stem
Cj
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amdrecording
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Re:Bussing and Reverb for Orchestral Template
2010/02/11 11:29:03
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I understand what you mean now, thanks CJ!
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