The Most Realistic Sounding Electric Guitar Sample Library to Date...

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I've checked out what Orange Tree has to offer, impressive. Curious as to your (edrummist) opinion of Prominy's guitar libraries.

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Electri6ity may be the best on the market...I don't know.
But the distortion lead parts still have a keyboard "feel" to them.
Its hard to explain, but you can definitely tell its not being played on a guitar.
Still, its the closet I've heard yet.

Here are some more demos that I copied from the Orange Tree Samples Forum on KVR. I know that the first two were put together quickly in response to Greg's customers asking for demos of Evolution Electric Guitar in various genres, which makes them really good, basic examples of what can be accomplished fairly easily with the library. I realize that none of these are metal (as Benjamin requested), and I know Greg had at least one really good metal demo -- I'll try to  find it! Here goes:

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/MrKing.mp3

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/JacksonTest.mp3

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/Funkulous.mp3

I took a listen to the Orange Tree samples.
As a nitpicky guitarist, I can say that Orange Tree is the first product I've heard that is really convincing...I mean REALLY convincing.
I don't know how much of it is programing/playing skills, but it definitely is the winner at this stage of the game.

These are exciting times for faux-guitar players!

Whichever product finally succeeds in producing a truly convincing (and playable) emulation will make a ton o' money, but only if it raises the state of the art for sampled guitar up to the same level as other sampler staples we've come to accept (strings, piano, organ, percussion, brass). The fact that it's taken so long to get here is a testament to just how nuanced and expressive an instrument the guitar really is.

Thanks to this thread, I've moved "guitar sampler" up a few notches on my wish-list.

Here are some additional demo tracks.  Listen closely to the many articulations, the details and the small nuances that make it sound so realistic. Yes, this developer makes really good demos, however, he couldn't produce a performance as realistic from a guitar sample library that did not have the appropriate level of detail and quality of samples to achieve this degree of realism. That's the exact reason why some guitar library developers have demos that are drenched in distortion and effects, to hide the underlying lameness of the samples (and scripting, which they might make up for with a lot of midi editing in a demo). 25 years of simulating guitar on keys and using sample libraries and VSTs and 10 years of advising independent sample library and VST developers has taught me a bit about how to discern the good from the bad or just plain mediocre when it comes to guitar sample libraries and VSTs. Take a listen: 
 
http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/SteveMorsels.mp3

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/StrawberryExtendedTeaser.mp3 

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/coreguitar-strawberry-demo2.mp3 

http://www.orangetreesamples.com/audio/coreguitar-strawberry-demo3.mp3 

What are your thoughts? Chime in. I see this thread is getting a lot of views and would love to see more people sharing their thoughts. Are others as excited about the upcoming Evolution Electric Guitar library release as I am? I think this is a pretty big deal. Even more, if you knew the price, you would be even more excited. 

Monkey23,

Well I know all the devs I've mentioned and many I haven't mentioned -- we're all pretty friendly and connected on Facebook and email each other regularly, including Benjamin. I have dozens of emails from Benjamin when he was working on the demos for Electri6ity, FTR.  I own and have owned Vir2 and other Big Fish Audio products, so I'm a customer of theirs which I think gives me a certain right to give opinions on their products. 

I didn't say Electri6ity is bad and I don't think it is. Anyhow, it all boils down to my believing that there is a major difference in the level of realism of Evolution and Electri6ity that is very evident in the demos. But again, if you can't hear it, that's fine. Even Dreambliss, who posted earlier in this thread has been exchanging PMs with me and we have hit it off very well and he agrees Evolution is a pretty big advancement for electric guitar sample libraries. That doesn't mean he suddenly dislike Electri6ity. 

However, if you don't hear it or if you disagree completely with that assessment, than that's fine too. We are all entitled to our opinions. 
 
  - eDrummist 

Monkey23

Keep in mind that that there is more to making a great program than just good demo clips. I think that other factors such as ease of use, an intuitive interface, low CPU, etc. will make an equally important impact when musicians choose either program.

I very much agree with the above sentence (although as I am moving up to 64 bit, I am ready to take advantage of the extra RAM to get the most realistic library possible, so I am less concerned with CPU, however, I'm pretty certain that of the developers mentioned in this thread include "light patches" with their libraries, so I don't think that's an issue with the developers we've discussed).  

Regarding your assertion that I'm trying to "trick you into thinking" something about demos, that is more than a bit over the line -- it's quite a loaded and inflammatory statement, consequently, I'll pass on getting engaged on that one. I have provided my assessment of the demos and that of a guitarist friend. You and everyone else have your own set of ears and can draw your own conclusions on what you hear.  I doubt anyone in this community lacks an opinion regarding sample libraries and sound.  Again, the only reason I even compared Evolution to Electri6ity is because of someone who posted who was a brand advocate of Electri6ity with a link to the product and Benjamin's (the developer of Electri6ity) very extensive posts promoting and extolling the virtues of his product in this thread, which invited a further direct comparison of the his product to Evolution, of course. Otherwise, I wouldn't have mentioned Electri6ity.   
 
- eDrummist

Monkey23

Ok, "tricked" may have been a poor choice of words. But I do think it seems slightly manipulative to assert that if I can't agree that Evolution is drastically better than Electri6ity, then it must be because I can't hear it. I think they both sound good and yes I am being diplomatic. Why? Because if I was gonig to nit pick I could honestly say that yeah, they both sound decent but a decent guitarist can play and record better than both of them! PM me for details  
But that's not the point of these programs, is it? The point is to provide non-guitarist with the tools to create "realistic" (but not REAL) guitar parts on the fly and within the comforts of their own recording environments. And for that, I think that they both succeed. Now, the hard part is for non-guitarists to know when, where, and how to put these articulations and effects (pick scrapes, etc) to good use to come up with believable guitar parts.
I'm also hesitant to say which is one is best because I haven't tried either of them. I refuse to say that one is better than the other based on audio demos. I've been burnt by impressive audio demos before, only to find out (sometimes hundreds of dollars later) that in reality the programs were not at all that impressive (I'm not naming names *COUGH* MOTU Ethno). It's the audio software equivalent of saying which movie is better based on their promotional trailers.
As well, I think that this whole thread/peeing contest reeks of unprofessionalism and amateurish-ness (if that's a word). What if the people at Native Instruments started going on forums bashing Amplitube and stating that Guitar Rig was light years better, and how Amplitube sounds like they used cheap transistor amps instead of the real deal? I would end up with a negative view of both programs.
Trust me, after this thread my interest is incredibly piqued and I would love to try both. And if one were to be the clear "winner" than I would have no problems saying so, but at this point nobody has tried both programs and with all the spamming going on here, I wouldn't trust anybody who says that one is definitely better than the other.
 

Once again, I am not a sample developer. 

This thread was originally about Evolution and, of course, my enthusiasm for the product, which I think is a pretty major breakthrough for sampled guitar. And with the exception of some comments I posted from a guitarist friend -- which largely, I agree with, but were articulated better than I could have articulated them, so I credited my friend -- I have posted my own opinions here and am not representing anyone else but me. 

I largely agree with you about listening to demos -- as I've stated multiple times in this thread, demo can feature all sorts of tools and trickery that can be applied that can distract the listener and the very point I have been making about them throughout this thread is that they, of course, always present the product in the best light. Consequently, if you listen to a demo carefully and can hear weakness or flaws of a sample library in the demo, you can count on the library having those issues because the musician who made the demo was unable to hide those flaws. And that is exactly what I pointed out about the Electri6ity demos that Benjamin posted. But you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  I have to respectively disagree with your opinion regarding people's ability and right to assess demos. 

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with a listener making critical judgments about a sample library based on demos. In fact, I think quite the opposite is true. Demos are produced by developers with the exact purposes of illustrating the sample library to be used by consumers conducting product research to assess fitness for use and make critical analysis as well as being a marketing tool to promote the product in the best light. If I adhere to your logic, every user would need to merely plug his or her ears and purchase each product on the market to assess it. That's really not valid or very reasonable. Demos serve a purpose and it is reasonable to use them in assessing a sample library, understanding that they show the product in the best possible light.  

- eDrummist

Monkey23

edrummist 

I largely agree with you about listening to demos -- as I've stated multiple times in this thread, demo can feature all sorts of tools and trickery that can be applied that can distract the listener and the very point I have been making about them throughout this thread is that they, of course, always present the product in the best light.
 
...
 
 Demos are produced by developers with the exact purposes of illustrating the sample library to be used by consumers conducting product research to assess fitness for use and make critical analysis as well as being a marketing tool to promote the product in the best light.
- eDrummist

There is a slight contradiction there, but it doesn't really matter. My point in a way is the same as yours. Audio demos are just that, demos and unless you can actually try the program for yourself, it is all anybody has to go on. And of course they are presented in the best light. But it's like those Weight Watchers commercials where they show all these people who have lost a tremendous amount of weight but at the bottom in small letters it reads: Results not typical, Individual result may vary. It doesn't mean anything until you've actually tried it for yourself. 
My conclusion is that they both sound great, and I hope they both do well. Sincerely.

There is no slight contradiction in what I stated.  Demo artists generally do everything possible to make a library sound great, so if you can listen very critically to a demo and discern weaknesses in the product, you can bet they are there as the demo is putting the product in the best possible light, so if weaknesses are appearant in the best possible light, you can be highly confident that those weaknesses are there in the product.  

I also wish all of these sample developers well. But that doesn't require turning off one's critical thinking and listening skills and no longer being able to critically assess various product entries, especially when a developer invites a comparison of his product with one you favor. You actually made a very harsh criticism, actually, it's really just a cheap shot, not an analysis like I made, at a product in your earlier posts:

"I'm also hesitant to say which is one is best because I haven't tried either of them. I refuse to say that one is better than the other based on audio demos. I've been burnt by impressive audio demos before, only to find out (sometimes hundreds of dollars later) that in reality the programs were not at all that impressive (I'm not naming names *COUGH* MOTU Ethno)" - Monkey23

Come on. It's quite hypocritical for you to selectively measure me by a different standard than you use for yourself while you take cheap shots at MOTU and employ some shots at me in each of your posts. As I have shared with you in our PMs, I really didn't want to share my critical analysis of Electri6ity and I only did share why I decided NOT to buy it, even though I know and like Benjamin, after Benjamin started posting in this thread and invited a comparison between the two products -- but my comparisons have been polite and analytical with no cheap shots. I was very interested in Electri6ity originally and was very likely to buy it even though I was majorly disappointed with Vir2's BASiS, however, upon closer examination, I decided it didn't meet with my standards. That's all there is to it. Let's move on beyond the debate, as it is quite off topic and is doing a great job of ruining this thread, which I hope is not a deliberate intention on your part. 

- eDrummist

Okay, moving on, if anyone is still interested interested in giving their take on Evolution or the demos I've posted, which was the intent of this thread prior to it getting derailed and possibly murderalized. (FTR, that's a reference (a fake word, actually) from an old cartoon, FTR. 100 points for anyone who can name it!) 

GigaGreenGad


I've been using Impact Soundworks' Shreddage and have been very happy with it so far.

Yeah, I thought the demos for that Shreddage demos sounded cool, but although Shreddage is an electric guitar library, it is a very different animal than Evolution or a lot of the other electric guitar libraries on the market.  The dev for Shreddage (according to his posts on KVR) created it specifically for metal and as per him, it doesn't have dynamics and isn't intended to be a versatile instrument beyond the metal genre nor does it feature anything beyond basic chords (he stated that if you're looking for strumming, Shreddage is not the right product for you). That said, for $49, if you do metal, I agree, that Shreddage is worth checking into. but it isn't intended to be a versatile guitar and doesn't feature much in the way of chord strums, but that's not what people doing the style of metal it was intended for care about anyhow. 

So, again, Shreddage is a completely different animal than Evolution, which is a very sophisticated and versatile guitar library with an extensive amount of articulations and intended for a full range or dynamics, as you can hear from the various demos. It is intended for all styles and includes a chord strumming engine that can create any type of chord or inversion. I'm super excited about the chord strumming rhythm guitar engine and the ability to do all sorts of chords and inversions. The dev sampled the guitar separately for use with the chord strum engine. As I mentioned earlier, I look at it as kind of a RealStrat on steroids and evolved several generations with superior samples and articulations good enough to be used in pro recordings. The lead engine is based on Orange Tree Samples' Strawberry Extended, which I think is a great library -- some of the demos I posted here were from Strawberry Extended and even the original Strawberry library.