Not looking for any flames, heated arguments or other. I am a loyal Cake user dating back to DOS Cake 3.0. 

But the way Live works seems quite different.  I downloaded a trial version and it seems counter intuitive, but more in line with my work flow.  I tend to compose a whole song, but track and build sections out a verse or a chorus at a time.  

Presonus just seems simpler than the stuff out there.

My style (if you want to call it that) is 
1) Build a song structure out with a boom chick click track, markers, yada yada
2) Record a set of instruments for Verse then for chorus then for bridge
3) copy and paste the structure of the song together
4) come back and re-record all the parts so there is nothing actually copy and paste.

But I will spend 30-40 minutes on a verse working up the guitars, the bass, the drums, the keys.... maybe much more.  So I tend to start the recording process 16 or 8 bars at a time.  

I have tried the new loopy thing in Sonar that looks like live/p5 but i do not totally get it. Maybe I should put more time in.

Presonus just seems to be a very clean uncluttered interface, though the feature set seems big.  

Any experience with either? 

Some people call me Maurice

-> "Presonus just seems to be a very clean uncluttered interface, though the feature set seems big.   "

this is what came to my attention as well - the interface, very good overview and cleaned-

I run the demo since yesterday, which is 1.5 x64 - surprisingly it ran out of the box, with audio setup automatic, latency 6ms - I have loaded 10 instances of Kontakt with orchestral samples, no strange behaviour so far and seems very responsive

ME is the Supercomposer, and all your base are belong to us (Yes, I mean Germany)

System Spec: CPU 2x X7560 Xeon 16-Core, 48 GIG Ram Kingston, Intel with Supermicro Workstation MP Boards, RME HDSPe, PNY Quadro 6000

I noticed you were interested in Cubase.  I think you will find many of us are ex Cubase users for a reason.  And VST3 - I do not see the value in it.  Too many of the VSTs are produced by small companies and even getting to x64 has been a challenge.  

Some people call me Maurice

space_cowboy


I noticed you were interested in Cubase.  I think you will find many of us are ex Cubase users for a reason.  And VST3 - I do not see the value in it.  Too many of the VSTs are produced by small companies and even getting to x64 has been a challenge.  

I found Presonus Studio One x64 has also VST3 support like Cubase/Nuendo although I do not know what the real advantage is?
I also like Cubase, very much - for me most important to compare is stability, reliabilty and interface -> workflow
 
I see Studio One is awesome, convincing demo version - bad thing I could not get Sonar demonstrativ version to run smooth on the workstation, still audio clicks and somteimes midi events are stalled, then released.. I do not know but it feels like tehre are some bugs in the demon

ME is the Supercomposer, and all your base are belong to us (Yes, I mean Germany)

System Spec: CPU 2x X7560 Xeon 16-Core, 48 GIG Ram Kingston, Intel with Supermicro Workstation MP Boards, RME HDSPe, PNY Quadro 6000

Cubase - not so stable. Read their forums.  I was a Cubase user for maybe 4-5 years and I pledge to never ever go back.  Ever.  I have no idea what the real benefits of VST 3 are. I do not think that Universal Audio (best signal processors) or Native Instruments (one of biggest soft synth cos) have embraced it.  But if it takes off, everyone will have it in their next generation.  

Sonar is rock solid for most of us.  Then again, you have to take the time to set it up.  

Some people call me Maurice

Among other things, Ableton Live's forte is it's nearly unlimited routing capabilities. I'm still scratching my head after searching everywhere on how to use Cubase's Free Routing feature. Inquiries posted in their forum have gone unanswered.

S8.3.1PE_Win7(64)_MSIA6400_IndigoIOx_Axiom25_Saffire24Pro_Saffire6USB_EdirolPCR300_Nocturn
Amplitubes_AmpegSVX_StylusRMX_SampleTank/Tron_Komplete7_AddictiveDrums_TRacks3_Wavelab6
miTunes

This past January I sat down for a proper demo of Presonus One to see what the fuss was about. (Their booth was right next to Cakewalk's, so I felt just a little traitorous sitting there - and a little con****uous with my "V-Studio" T-shirt.)

Of course, a demo given by an expert user always makes any product look easy to use and full-featured. The presenter knows how to use it, which makes it look easy. And of course, he is careful not to expose any limitations, which makes it look as though it does everything. Still, at the end of the demo I had a better understanding of what it is people like about the product and a generally positive impression.

In a word, its allure is its simplicity. The 1.0 version I saw had a very clean, streamlined user interface. Everything seemed laid out in a logical and consistent manner, so that new users should easily figure stuff out. Anyone with previous DAW experience should be able to get up and running on it quickly.

But it also struck me as a somewhat primitive, despite the elegant UI. That was because that first version lacked a lot of features that one expects from a "full-featured" DAW.

There was no video support at that time, and although it's been added since it's still Quicktime only. There was no surround support, either, but that may be in the current version now as well.  Also no freeze function, no pitch-correction.

They also didn't have much in the way of bundled instruments, but I don't consider that a showstopper. (They apparently have a "lite" version of EZDrummer bundled, but I did not see it demonstrated.)

Given time, it will be a very nice product.

All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to.

My Stuff

You may want to google live and trouble. Apparently there are a number of stability issues with it (check kvr and their forums)

As for presonus one. It's not for me, and not at that price, but allot of peeps seem to dig it! I dunno how x86 works in the x64 version though (there is no bridge). Jbridge?

i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.

hey space cowboy, not a hijack, but what is that pic in your avatar from?
I have seen the show buy can't place it.
Thanks

Looks like Billy Mummy famous for his role in Lost in Space. Before Lost in Space he had parts in a lot of sitcoms and such. Could be an episode of Bewitched.

Mike V.   

SONAR X2a (x64) running on
STUDIO Rack Mount Win7x64 
ASUS P9X79 PRO 
INTEL i7 E3930k 
nVidia QUADRO FX 3800
32GIG DDR3 18000
JBL2300 system 
LOCATION HP DV8 18.4"
Presonus studio Live 24.4.2 
i7-720 8GIG DDR3 nVidia GT230M 2 X 500GIG SATA3 HDD
WIN7x64

Supercomposer

space_cowboy


I noticed you were interested in Cubase.  I think you will find many of us are ex Cubase users for a reason.  And VST3 - I do not see the value in it.  Too many of the VSTs are produced by small companies and even getting to x64 has been a challenge.  

I found Presonus Studio One x64 has also VST3 support like Cubase/Nuendo although I do not know what the real advantage is?
I also like Cubase, very much - for me most important to compare is stability, reliabilty and interface -> workflow
 
I see Studio One is awesome, convincing demo version - bad thing I could not get Sonar demonstrativ version to run smooth on the workstation, still audio clicks and somteimes midi events are stalled, then released.. I do not know but it feels like tehre are some bugs in the demon

"bugs in the demon"--typo or Freudian slip?
Seriously, though...I don't know about the demo being buggy or not, since I've been a Sonar user for quite some time and simply bought the upgrade version. But with a system like yours you might want to have a look at this thread. It describes settings and BIOS tweaks that can affect stability in any DAW software. If your system was built by someone who builds especially for audio/video use these settings may have been optimized already; in any event, the information might be useful to you.

stratoj


hey space cowboy, not a hijack, but what is that pic in your avatar from?
I have seen the show buy can't place it.
Thanks

twilight zone, better watch out or he'll wish you into the corn field!

i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.

space_cowboy


Cubase - not so stable. Read their forums.  I was a Cubase user for maybe 4-5 years and I pledge to never ever go back.  Ever.  I have no idea what the real benefits of VST 3 are.

you are joking right? I have now stopped testing Sonar 8 honestly it seems extremely bug infected, not working as advertised on pro machines which run every other DAW out of the box,  take a look at THIS start page of the sonar forum people reporting the wierdest bugs, compare this to the Cubase forums there is nothing of that kind going on in the Cubase forums, except some people not being able to read the manual and asking silly questions. also here stop complaint about the SB bitbridge not working perfectly on the last version, when there was a cheap tool to fix the problem (jBridge) also there is 5.5 coming out next week with bitbridge compeltly redesigned. And why are Sonar people obviously also working with jBridge if the Sonar bridge would be that perfect?? I also read hear people using it, so why??

I run Cubase x64 with no problems what so ever. Sonar crashed the machines about 5 times in a test week also with the strangest behaviours with plugins and VSTi
 
also you write not knowing what the benefits of VST3 are ?? you post DISQUALIFIED already for such sentence
""
1. VST3 supports multiple MIDI ports as opposed to VST2 and AU which support only one MIDI port at a time. This is especially handy if you're trying to offload some of the instruments you might be using to program such as Vienna Ensemble Pro.

2. VST3 is surround capable.  When you insert a VST3 effect on a track - you get an effect for every channel (6 effects for 5.1 surround, 2 for Stereo, 1 for MONO).

3. VST3 goes offline if you have no audio going through it. If you have 100 tracks, with 100 effects, but only 15 play at a time, then your CPU only computes those 15 effects that are being utilized at a particular moment. ""
here even more info on Steinberg VST3
http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/technologies/vst3.html
 
 
We have purchased the Fabfilter VST3 version, which I highly recommend 

ME is the Supercomposer, and all your base are belong to us (Yes, I mean Germany)

System Spec: CPU 2x X7560 Xeon 16-Core, 48 GIG Ram Kingston, Intel with Supermicro Workstation MP Boards, RME HDSPe, PNY Quadro 6000

Phoenix

Supercomposer

space_cowboy


I noticed you were interested in Cubase.  I think you will find many of us are ex Cubase users for a reason.  And VST3 - I do not see the value in it.  Too many of the VSTs are produced by small companies and even getting to x64 has been a challenge.  

I found Presonus Studio One x64 has also VST3 support like Cubase/Nuendo although I do not know what the real advantage is?
I also like Cubase, very much - for me most important to compare is stability, reliabilty and interface -> workflow

I see Studio One is awesome, convincing demo version - bad thing I could not get Sonar demonstrativ version to run smooth on the workstation, still audio clicks and somteimes midi events are stalled, then released.. I do not know but it feels like tehre are some bugs in the demon

"bugs in the demon"--typo or Freudian slip?
Seriously, though...I don't know about the demo being buggy or not, since I've been a Sonar user for quite some time and simply bought the upgrade version. But with a system like yours you might want to have a look at this thread. It describes settings and BIOS tweaks that can affect stability in any DAW software. If your system was built by someone who builds especially for audio/video use these settings may have been optimized already; in any event, the information might be useful to you.

Thank you, but now the testing time is over and we will keep the options not including Sonar. It is just needing more time for developing it is on a good way with good ideas. Perhaps a couple of years. but accepting I need to tweak settings of an otherwise perfectly configured machine, to hope it works, is not a n option. A DAW need to work installed out of the box without esoteric tips and tweaks how it might work.
 
 

ME is the Supercomposer, and all your base are belong to us (Yes, I mean Germany)

System Spec: CPU 2x X7560 Xeon 16-Core, 48 GIG Ram Kingston, Intel with Supermicro Workstation MP Boards, RME HDSPe, PNY Quadro 6000

double post

ME is the Supercomposer, and all your base are belong to us (Yes, I mean Germany)

System Spec: CPU 2x X7560 Xeon 16-Core, 48 GIG Ram Kingston, Intel with Supermicro Workstation MP Boards, RME HDSPe, PNY Quadro 6000