An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED?

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JenksTer
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:19:17 (permalink)
gtgarner


JenksTer


gtgarner


JenksTer


I have to confess, there does appear to be loads of issues with X1, so much so that you do kinda wonder ''When's it gonna crash''.

What load of issues? Is there an issues thread? I can't find issues that will make me not be able to make music.

Do you mean things like the colors? 


Just scan the first the first page of the X1 forum.... Of course if it actually stops you from making music is debatable. But there are issues to resolve. I myself have had several crashes since install..
Oh come on. Many of  peoples were the same people whos' computers were crashing since Sonar 5,6,7. 
 
10000 users of Sonar and 15 people reporting crashes is now a conclusion of the product.  Please go back to 8.5 and wait. Oh thats right.....8.5 crashes too.
 
I envite anyone who wishes to come over to my studio.  My X1 hasn't crashed yet.  Been using it all day.     Just call before you come over.


10000 users of X1 is that right? Well I'd be a mug not to post my views on the X1 forum surely.... Guess I'd bound to get drowned out. Still, if you want  to work on my projects by all means.../
#61
Scott Lee
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:20:33 (permalink)
Not with a redesign. You will find some hardware configurations of various products will hiccup even long beta  milestones. We all use different video cards, audio devices, even possibly different revisions of drivers and dlls. The bakers will fix it ;)

Scott Lee (ASCAP)
SFX Media 
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#62
ba_midi
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:23:10 (permalink)
I think it's reasonable to expect that if you have a solid 8.5 DAW, that X1 should work solid too, or no?


Yes, I wish :)

I must say, I've done 4 or 5 updates to Live 8 in this last year, and although I don't use it nearly as much as Sonar - it's actually never crashed ONCE for me.

Now it's not like updates are the same as new versions, but still - this new Sonar is crashing too much too soon, imho.

I'm going to get to the bottom of this though - because I do believe whatever problems there are now WILL get resolved, so I won't give up on it.  I have faith in the Bakers and CW team to help us all in this regard.

It's just frustrating - so I hope everyone will bear with me (and with anyone who may run into this kind of stuff) as we work it through.

Don't pay TOO much attention to my whining during the process LOL.





Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#63
StepD
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:24:37 (permalink)
Bub


I think it's reasonable to expect that if you have a solid 8.5 DAW, that X1 should work solid too, or no?

I think we pretty much hear that one every time a new version comes out.

And Billy, I think you'll be the first to admit that you have a history of weird things happening when new versions come out. You're obviously cursed.

#64
gtgarner
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:25:14 (permalink)
As I've read Ba-Midi's posts - I dont think that this is his problem at all, so I'm not responding to his posts, but there are folks who are using X1 on computers that are not dedicated to Sonar.  Their systems are connected to 3 printers, a scanner, virus scan running in the background, 2 video cards attached, browsing the internet,  making coffee and walking the dog and they wonder why Sonar is crashing.

They go into task manager and there are 204 programs running in the backgound. 

If Sonar is working on a number of systems without a flaw, then I'm thinking.......that its a system issue with the crashers.

I've restarted X1 no less than 50 times today. I've changed folders preferences / opened 8.5 projects and run them / started a new projects / etc . I've even tried to run both X1 and 8.5 together - to which 8.5 wouldn't start with X1 running...but there was no "crash".
post edited by gtgarner - 2010/12/09 01:27:20
#65
chrisharbin
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:31:02 (permalink)
ba_midi


A1MixMan


Sounds to me like ba midi is having some kind of hardware conflick or other software even. Who know at this point.

Who knows is right.  But it's up to 8 crashes now.  And I haven't changed any hardware or anything.  All I did was install X1 and try to use/learn it so far.

Something is awry, as they say.   I'm well within the specs for X1 and my system is very "up to date" in all aspects - and has run smooth for a very long time now.

Of course I'm upset and may whine a bit, but I'm still a Sonar kind of guy and will see this through.


Hey, though I don't want to sound patronizing, I feel you. You are an expert user, you know what should work and I want to make sure you understand that just because I'm giving a more rosy story, does NOT mean I'm saying there are not plenty of issues.

i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
#66
ba_midi
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:33:11 (permalink)
I want to say - and probably will a few times -- just because I'm crashing does NOT mean I'm anti-X1.  

I will work through the problems.

But I also want to say we shouldn't diss / discard anyone's problems since it IS a new version release.

It's an opportunity to learn and help each other (if you care about doing such things.  I do).

And it may help the Bakers fix things we find.

Whining isn't the same thing as disliking.  It's just venting frustration.  I may whine, but I'm not throwing in the towel on X1.

I do believe there's going to be a good future for it and me (and you/us).

But let's also be tolerant of the struggles some of us MAY go through with it.

And yes - The Bakers, and especially Brandon, Seth, etc, deserve big KUDOS for being here with us during this transition.

They have a really tough job and we should all be very considerate of that and of them.



Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

http://www.ba-midi.com/music/files
Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#67
chrisharbin
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:33:12 (permalink)
gtgarner


As I've read Ba-Midi's posts - I dont think that this is his problem at all, so I'm not responding to his posts, but there are folks who are using X1 on computers that are not dedicated to Sonar.  Their systems are connected to 3 printers, a scanner, virus scan running in the background, 2 video cards attached, browsing the internet,  making coffee and walking the dog and they wonder why Sonar is crashing.

They go into task manager and there are 204 programs running in the backgound. 

If Sonar is working on a number of systems without a flaw, then I'm thinking.......that its a system issue with the crashers.

I've restarted X1 no less than 50 times today. I've changed folders preferences / opened 8.5 projects and run them / started a new projects / etc . I've even tried to run both X1 and 8.5 together - to which 8.5 wouldn't start with X1 running...but there was no "crash".


And I understand exactly what you are saying as well. Like I said, I'm torn because problems don't necessarily mean "user error" (though in my case they might surely be LOL )

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#68
Bub
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:34:06 (permalink)
I wish you luck with it Billy.

I went through the same thing with 8.5 but eventually I got it working rock solid. It ended up being a combination of hardware and software, software being 8.5, but I got through it.

I can't wait to get X1 but I'm holding off to see if other retailers might offer it a little cheaper boxed since I don't have a good enough connection to download it.

Going to bed ... goodnight.

"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
#69
WDI
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:36:08 (permalink)
ba_midi



3) There is a manual. It's via online help chm file as 8.5 was. It's fully searchable, etc.

 
Not the same as the PDF Reference Guide -- which was a breeze to use, and could be used outside the program.
 
CHM style help is also a tad outdated and harder to navigate.
 
 
You don't need Sonar to open the CHM file. You may find the help file under Programs/Cakewalk...


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#70
ba_midi
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:39:58 (permalink)
You don't need Sonar to open the CHM file. You may find the help file under Programs/Cakewalk...


I personally still prefer a PDF version of the complete manual as we had for 8.5



Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#71
gtgarner
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:42:52 (permalink)
For 64bit users, don't forget to run X1 as "administrator".  Otherwise there may be some other programs that will take priority over X1.

Just a tip.
#72
chrisharbin
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 01:48:54 (permalink)
ba_midi



You don't need Sonar to open the CHM file. You may find the help file under Programs/Cakewalk...


I personally still prefer a PDF version of the complete manual as we had for 8.5


I'm going to keep +1 ing you on that. That is the single biggest frustration I've run into so far (and again, yes of course I'm using the current method.)

Hopefully, it won't be too long.

i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
#73
JClosed
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 03:11:15 (permalink)
Well - just to add some remarks here...

As far as I can see the new X1 is a big change interface-wise. It should not be surprising most bugs are related to the interface (apart from crashing, but I will come to that later). It would not surprise anyone that in the first release there are things that have to be ironed out. If you look at all possible configurations of DAW hard- and software, i think it is safe to say that it would be very difficult to find two persons here with the same set-up. With so many possible configurations it is very difficult for a software designer to test every little bit on every possible configuration. Well - it might be possible, but I guess they want the software out by now, and not ten years later.  Remember - even Microsoft with thousands and thousands of developers and 6 years of development time where not able to put out a product without any fault.

Also take into consideration a lot of problems could not be related to X1 solely, but as a combination of some older and obscure software, or even new software. A few years ago I bought a graphical program that was instantly crashing the moment I started it up. I was very annoyed and blamed the software developers - until I found out the problem was related to the new graphical driver that came out AFTER the software was developed and sold. So - the program developers could not possible be held responsible for the problems, but the driver developers where. I hope this illustrate how difficult it is to take every possible permutation of hard- and software in consideration.

That is the reason I always buy a product (whatever it is) on release time an put it on a test system (or on the same system if I am sure nothing would brake). Only after some thorough testing (and maybe some updates), I put the product on a production system. Doing anything else is just taking unnecessary risks. I do this with EVERY critical piece of software, and I strongly suggest the same to anyone else. Don not forget - most of us already have a (more or less) perfect working 8.5 system. Jus have some patience while the quirks are ironed out. I guess it wont take that long...
#74
ba_midi
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 03:12:52 (permalink)
And Billy, I think you'll be the first to admit that you have a history of weird things happening when new versions come out. You're obviously cursed.


I agree.  I'm cursed because I go through a lot of struggles and learn a lot and then share it with others so they don't have to.  What a curse LOL.

Things will work out - I'll bet on that :)



Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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Music gives me life, so I give life Music.
Thanks for listening - Let's Dance to the rhythm of life! :)
#75
mudgel
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 03:39:29 (permalink)
I'll say it again. SONAR X1 is not a new piece of software. It might have a new naming convention but its built on the code that came before it; that is SONAR 8.5 , 8, 7 etc. There's been some code added and some modified and perhaps even some removed but it's not a new program it's only the latest release.

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#76
mudgel
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 03:44:23 (permalink)
And as far as bugs, and complaints of bugs and defense of Cakewalk and SONAR and interjection by moderators - its pretty typical on release day. I don't see anything today I haven't seen every year for many years.

the main issues seems to be that the machine delivering the release gets bigger the program gets bigger the marketing gets bigger but every release we get the same problems  - early bugs that should/could have been picked up, bugs that have been in SONAR so long that they seem like features, the eStore problems, these things just keep on keepin' on, year in year out.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#77
dappa1
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 03:48:02 (permalink)
We are a nice bunch!
#78
melmyers
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 04:09:46 (permalink)
I'm as excited as anyone about the release of X1. It looks like most of Sonar's many fantastic features are truly organized and easily accessible for the first time.

But as much as I love Sonar, I can't recall a single upgrade without some annoying problems upon first release. I have learned that the Cakewalk team is sometimes so ambitious that they try to deliver new features that just aren't ready for prime time.

I have work to do. I can't do it and get paid if my system isn't working properly. I don't have time to develop "work-arounds", and learning a new piece of software is a nightmare without a manual for quick reference when in trouble. Just the fact that there's no manual is a deal-killer for me. 

My thanks to everyone who has immediately downloaded X1 and found so much to complain about. As they say, "The pioneers are the ones with the arrows in their backs." I appreciate you taking one for the team.  

Since I make a living with my DAW, I need a program that I can totally count on, and for the time being, that program is Sonar 8.5. So far there is no program that flawlessly does what X1 promises to do, including X1 itself.

Did Sonar rush X1's release? Based on their past release schedules, I'd say X1 was pretty much on time. But based on how well it's working for the pioneers, maybe it was rushed.

However...if you run into anyone gloating about Pro Tools 9 having a perfectly smooth debut, don't believe it. I just checked the Pro Tools forum, and they have their own special set of problems.
 
I MUST own X1, and will, once the 1st patch comes out. As the world of software development goes, Cakewalk didn't rush the release, but anyone who downloaded the first version expecting it to work perfectly rushed their purchase.
#79
guitarmikeh
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 04:30:13 (permalink)
I think cake took a pounding today. not to say there weren't very valid issues. re: ba-midi who I felt kept his composure and is being positive. but a few others (i wont mention names were stirring the pot, so to speak, with their own agenda (whom joined the forum just days ago. hummm interesting.no?)) but Brandon and Seth took all punches on the chin well, were trying to be helpful but seemed to get tired of the constant barrage. kudos to them, and Cake. I know they'll work out most of the bugs.
IMO as far as this OP thread's meaning was actually NOT honest. I think it was meant to push buttons, but its the internet. what else should we expect. rife with snide remarks and finger pointing.

my .2 cents


edit: i concur with all the point made but the poster above.  the manual not being included was a major screw up. but easily remedied. <smack head emo here>

edit 2:   Brandon and Seth, they're still at it trying to help. Honestly I don't think this kind or amount of interaction between staff and users happens anywhere else. that's a BIG PLUS right there.
post edited by guitarmikeh - 2010/12/09 04:40:35

I harbor no ill will towards any man.
#80
benstat
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 04:47:45 (permalink)
X1 is great. I love it. Been waiting for an update like this for ages, and this one just about slaps me round the face with meaty UI goodness. And, to top it off, I think it's faster than 8.5.3 on my crappy laptop and my proper DAW.

But, I am looking forward to the patch. I don't yet have the same trust in it as I did with 8.5.3. In my experience, it isn't unusual at all to have a patch announced, or even available, on the release date.

As an early adopter (and, FWIW, a programmer by profession), I expected problems. I will give Cake the benefit of the doubt until the first patch is released. If I can't trust it after that, then I will be truly disappointed.

My DAW: Intel i5, Cakewalk UA-1G, Win7 64 bit, SONAR X1a Producer 64 bit
#81
John T
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 05:04:30 (permalink)
This forum has developed a truly tiresome culture. When you get to people criticising a company for getting out patches fast, you have to conclude that such people are bending over backwards to find things to complain about.

There are some smart people here, but they're drowned out far too much by the relentlessly negative and the clueless. I think I'm going to have to start giving this place a miss.

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#82
benstat
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 05:09:55 (permalink)
John T


This forum has developed a truly tiresome culture. When you get to people criticising a company for getting out patches fast, you have to conclude that such people are bending over backwards to find things to complain about.

There are some smart people here, but they're drowned out far too much by the relentlessly negative and the clueless. I think I'm going to have to start giving this place a miss.

+1

My DAW: Intel i5, Cakewalk UA-1G, Win7 64 bit, SONAR X1a Producer 64 bit
#83
Seth Perlstein [Cakewalk]
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 05:34:13 (permalink)
Like John T and Benstat, I am surprised that we're being criticized for releasing a patch within weeks after X1 shipping. I can't tell you how many times we've had people tell us that we were too slow to release patches.

I notice the same thing with what we've done with the Skylight interface. For years people have been screaming for a new GUI. Now we give it to them and then some by not only making the GUI look better, but also function better, and still some people complain about that.

And back to the OPs question, X1 was far from rushed. This is the longest release cycle I've been a part of, and quite frankly it needed to be as the changes from 8.5 to X1 were far greater and deeper on a development level than anything we've done in, well, perhaps the history of SONAR.

I can't go in to too many specifics but we even pushed back the release as far as possible so that the release would be as stable and feature rich as possible. We did this for one reason and one reason alone; so you the customer would have the best out of box experience possible.

Is X1 perfect and totally bug free? Nope, and I'm not claiming that it is. But that's why we've had a plan for a patch to be released as soon as possible all along.


#84
benstat
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 05:42:29 (permalink)
Was it Lincoln who said 'You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time'.

My DAW: Intel i5, Cakewalk UA-1G, Win7 64 bit, SONAR X1a Producer 64 bit
#85
John T
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 06:07:04 (permalink)
I'm off starting some new threads. "Are cakewalk IN LEAGUE with the NORTH KOREANS?" "Is X1 secretly part of IRAN'S WEAPONS PROGRAMME?" "Is the ProChannel a DELIBERATE ATTEMPT to make BABY JESUS CRY?"

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#86
subtlearts
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 06:11:18 (permalink)
John T


I'm off starting some new threads. "Are cakewalk IN LEAGUE with the NORTH KOREANS?" "Is X1 secretly part of IRAN'S WEAPONS PROGRAMME?" "Is the ProChannel a DELIBERATE ATTEMPT to make BABY JESUS CRY?"

Hilarious. Is X1 part of the 'aX1s of evil'? 

tobias tinker 
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#87
mickbrit55
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 07:25:30 (permalink)
+1 to Melmyers.

Anyone that is serious about making music wouldn't go diving into a first release product and having to live with the bugs and crashes - kinda ruins your workflow. Right now 8.5.3 works fine for me. I'll keep an eye on X1 and Pro Tools 9 and see what develops once the QQ'ing calms down. I do not envisage upgrading for at least 6 months - hell, maybe i'll wait until the next major release and get one of those deals right before release that tends to make everyone fume :)

Mick.
#88
jamesyoyo
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 07:36:33 (permalink)
stuX1net
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Fess
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Re:An Honest Question: Was This Release RUSHED? 2010/12/09 08:04:32 (permalink)
Bub


RogerS

You're right. It's not the questions, the problem is the troll-like comments coming from some.

Ahhh ... and the name calling begins.

It was a pretty clean discussion up until that point.


Yeah, and it's like he was just 'lurking'..waiting to 'flame' someone lol. Who's the troll really?
#90
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