Edit Filter - Quick tips

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Robin Kelly [Roland]
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2010/12/13 17:31:31 (permalink)

Edit Filter - Quick tips

The Edit Filter allows you to work with the data you want and none of the data that you don’t. For example, you might have multiple automation envelopes on a track. You can use the edit filter to select which of the automation envelopes you would like to edit.


In this example we will choose volume. The rest of the track data including the audio data is left unaffected. You can only edit the volume envelopes.



You can also use the Edit Filter to switch to the in-line piano roll view.

Here’s a power user shortcut: Hold down the shift key while you click on a data type (automation envelope, clip data etc) and you will automatically switch to editing that data type.

Robin

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#1

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    Robin Kelly [Roland]
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/13 17:58:53 (permalink)
    I should add you can shift click on the clip to get back to editing the actual clip.

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    #2
    JSGlen
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/13 18:16:30 (permalink)
    Thanks Robin, I love this new feature. You are are really doing a fine job!!!

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    #3
    Mage_et_lent
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/13 18:19:15 (permalink)
    Very helpful, thank you Robin, I hope you will put more of these tips.

    What I don't understand, in the filter is why it shows automation from other tracks.
    I am in track 7 and I see CC11 and CC74 from track 1. Well, there is nothing in track 1 by the way. So I don't why where it comes from ?
    But why couldn't I see just what's in  my track ?
    #4
    Robin Kelly [Roland]
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/13 18:24:39 (permalink)
    A MIDI track will have those CC's listed by default but they are looking at Channel 1 not track 1. Is that what you are seeing Channel 1 or is it actually track 1? I tried to reproduce what you are describing and can't.

    Also make sure to check out SONAR University for some great videos on SONAR X1.

    http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONARU.aspx

    Robin

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    #5
    Mage_et_lent
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/13 18:28:26 (permalink)
    Yes channel, sorry !
    I was a bit disoriented at first, from how it was in 8.5.
    I use it much. It is not clear now between what you already have and what you can have. All is mixed together, and when other channels show up as well, it is a bit confusing. Well I'll get used to it I guess.
    post edited by Mage_et_lent - 2010/12/13 18:33:51
    #6
    Robin Kelly [Roland]
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/13 20:05:51 (permalink)
    You are right the edit Filter is a new concept to SONAR X1 so it will take some getting used to. The majority of folks who have used the edit filter really like it especially if you are working with a lot of automation data.

    Robin

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    #7
    stickman393
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 00:21:55 (permalink)
    In sonar 8.5, you could select a time range, then right-click on an envelope and select "add nodes at selection". 

    In SONAR X1, it appears the intent is that we should do this instead:

    To raise/lower an envelope across a time range:
    1.  Set the track’s Edit Filter control to the desired automation parameter (Track Automation or Clip Automation). 
    2.  Drag in the time ruler to select the duration of the envelope that you want to raise/lower. 
    3.  Do one of the following: 
    ○  With the Smart tool , position the pointer within the selection near the top center of the track/clip, then drag up/down. 
    ○  With the Move tool , position the pointer within the selection, then drag up/down. 


    This is not working for me. Is there a trick? All that happens is that the entire envelope is moved up or down, across the length of the track.


    #8
    ba_midi
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 00:33:05 (permalink)
    stickman393


    In sonar 8.5, you could select a time range, then right-click on an envelope and select "add nodes at selection". 

    In SONAR X1, it appears the intent is that we should do this instead:

    To raise/lower an envelope across a time range:
    1.  Set the track’s Edit Filter control to the desired automation parameter (Track Automation or Clip Automation). 
    2.  Drag in the time ruler to select the duration of the envelope that you want to raise/lower. 
    3.  Do one of the following: 
    ○  With the Smart tool , position the pointer within the selection near the top center of the track/clip, then drag up/down. 
    ○  With the Move tool , position the pointer within the selection, then drag up/down. 


    This is not working for me. Is there a trick? All that happens is that the entire envelope is moved up or down, across the length of the track.

    If you shift-click on an envelope, it gets the focus (hence smart tool?) -- then you can lasso it, etc.



    Billy Arnell (ba-midi)

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    #9
    Grem
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 00:35:56 (permalink)
    I was using this today and thought this is a vast improvement over the old way!!

    Grem

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    #10
    Freddie H
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 04:01:27 (permalink)
    Thanks Robin!
    Please add more Tips in this threads, thank you!
     
     
    *** Did you know! Helpful thread about SONAR & SONAR X1***
    Can Moderate move "*** Did you know! Helpful thread about SONAR & SONAR X1***" to this X1 Section or make it Sticky?
    Thanks in advance!

    I have added your tips here--------> http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2159163  
      
     
     
    Best Regards
    Freddie
    post edited by Freddie H - 2010/12/14 04:03:37


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    #11
    SvenArne
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 04:09:14 (permalink)
    This approach is most powerful IMO. But I can't seem to find the "add nodes at selecton" command anymore? Is it hidden away somewhere or is replaced by some other tool action.

    Sven





    #12
    stickman393
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 09:57:03 (permalink)
    @Sven - 

    Exactly. Add Nodes at Selection is gone, and the documented alternative in X1 does not appear to be working.

    Anyone managed to get this working?
    #13
    tarsier
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 10:30:32 (permalink)

    Exactly. Add Nodes at Selection is gone, and the documented alternative in X1 does not appear to be working. Anyone managed to get this working?

    I didn't specifically see the documented alternative, but this is working for me.

    Use the smart tool. Enable it by pressing the 'F5' key.  Display the envelope you want to edit with the edit filter: Middle mouse button, or 'T' key and choose the envelope from the drop down list--alternately and quicker, shift-click the envelope.  Drag across the bottom half of the track to make your selection.  Move the mouse pointer above the envelope and drag down. This will add nodes at the selection and drag down the envelope.

    The fatal flaw with this approach is that if the envelope is already at maximum (so at the top of the track) you can't actually move your mouse pointer above the envelope.  In this case, just use the draw tool (F9) to draw the envelope you want.

    While I think this new method is mostly good, the fatal flaw I mentioned keeps it from being completely awesome.  It's really quick (faster than the old 'add nodes at selection') once you get the hang of it and if you can avoid envelopes being up at the top of the track.
    post edited by tarsier - 2010/12/14 10:32:43
    #14
    rbowser
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 12:55:13 (permalink)
    Robin - These Tip threads that are appearing on the Forum are MUCH appreciated.  I'm sure it's helping all of us focus on things which we may be unclear about even after trying X1 out for awhile and looking through the Help file.

    Keep 'em comin'!

    Randy B.

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    #15
    EyjolfurG
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 16:09:56 (permalink)
    Drag across the bottom half of the track to make your selection.  Move the mouse pointer above the envelope and drag down. This will add nodes at the selection and drag down the envelope.
     
     
    Great tip. I was looking for this

     
     
     
     

    Eyjolfur G.
    #16
    dlbachtell
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 16:23:13 (permalink)
    I've discovered that simply double-clicking on a point in the envelope will add a node.
    #17
    ba_midi
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/14 17:14:28 (permalink)
    dlbachtell


    I've discovered that simply double-clicking on a point in the envelope will add a node.

    Alt+Click too.
     
     

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    stickman393
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 01:34:00 (permalink)
    tarsier

    Drag across the bottom half of the track to make your selection.  Move the mouse pointer above the envelope and drag down. This will add nodes at the selection and drag down the envelope. 

    The fatal flaw with this approach is that if the envelope is already at maximum (so at the top of the track) you can't actually move your mouse pointer above the envelope.  In this case, just use the draw tool (F9) to draw the envelope you want.

    While I think this new method is mostly good, the fatal flaw I mentioned keeps it from being completely awesome.  It's really quick (faster than the old 'add nodes at selection') once you get the hang of it and if you can avoid envelopes being up at the top of the track.
    OK, thanks tarsier, I see it now. 


    I can't believe how... unintuitive this is. I must be getting old, or something, because this "smart" tool is beyond me.
    I found a process that works for me: Once you're in Envelope Edit Mode (*), I don't bother click-dragging to select. I just use F8 to switch to the CUT tool, then click click click click to get my two pairs of nodes around the selection of the of clip I want to alter, then F5 to get the SELECT tool back. Click on that envelope and drag it down. Or Up. Works even for hard-panned left or right envelopes.

    At least we still have these options. For a while it was like, "No, you can't! You have to do it this way now. And it only works for 50% of the use cases! Yay Smart tools!!!!!"

    Sorry, but that's how I'm feeling right now. Just a little bitter.


    * Remember when "modes" were a bad thing?




    #19
    Robin Kelly [Roland]
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 13:18:26 (permalink)
    Here's one for you.

    You can easily add an automation edit using the smart tool.


    Using the Edit filter select volume automation for a track


    Now click and drag on the lower part of the track to make a time selection


    Then click and drag the top part of the selection to change the volume.

    Robin

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    #20
    pathos
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 13:25:04 (permalink)
    Yeah, been using this- like it very much.
    #21
    stickman393
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 14:40:25 (permalink)
    Robin, thank you for your detailed post. I'm sorry, my previous comment wasn't clear: After Tarsier's explanation, I managed to make automation envelope edits using the process you've excellently described above. I hope your post helps others understand how the design is supposed to work.

    One thing I noticed: When the edit filter is set to Track or Clip Vol/Pan automation, the "Trim" control is used to create a node with a single-click, not the "Split" tool. I really expected the "Split" edit tool to be the right one.


    Robin, is this a bug?
    post edited by stickman393 - 2010/12/15 14:41:28
    #22
    Zyler Vega [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 15:16:24 (permalink)
    The Split tool should allow for adding nodes with a left click, similar to the functionality you're seeing with the Trim tool today.

    This is an issue that will be addressed in an upcoming patch.

    Zyler Vega 
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    #23
    Robin Kelly [Roland]
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 15:19:59 (permalink)
    Hopefully that puts the issue to bed (for now).

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    #24
    tarsier
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/15 15:46:00 (permalink)
    Hopefully that puts the issue to bed (for now).

    Don't go to bed just yet. What about the problem where you can't do this:
    Robin Kelly: Then click and drag the top part of the selection to change the volume.
    when the envelope is too high up in the track? Try it with a volume envelope at +5dB. It doesn't work for me at all.

    #25
    vksf01
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/19 12:11:09 (permalink)
    So I was trying this yesterday to automate a parameter in Albino.  I think I might have found a bug.  Can some of you try this.

    Create an instance of Albino
    Click on the clip automation drop down
    This will expose all the Albino automatable parameters (and there are a lot of them)
    Select something (eg Filter)
    Draw the envelope (however you want it)
    Try to automate a few more parameters
    After about 3 to 5 times, none of the drop downs will work
    Sonar then crashes (actually it just vanishes)


    #26
    Keni
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/19 12:19:15 (permalink)
    This is not a good solution for me... and I'm guessing others as well... I know it's an attempt at making selections for editing easier, but at the cost of workflow for those of us who can handle the fact that everything is available at once...

    I'm extremely disappointed at this decision and can only hope that they'll add an option to enable/disable this methodolgy...

    It's costing me a lot of extra clicks and time...

    Keni


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    #27
    rainmaker1011
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/19 12:45:24 (permalink)
    I do not like the blinking and invisible yellow box with the actual parameter value. It is refreshing itself when you are moving nodes and thus you cannot see the actual value of the parameter until you stop moving the node.

    I think it should stay in one position while moving the node and it should be showing actual value of the parameter. 

    What do you guys think about this? Am I the only one who thinks the current behavior of that small yellow box is wrong and unintuitive? The same box is in one position and showing everything while moving nodes in other DAW software.


    Best Regards,  
    Marek

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    #28
    Keni
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/19 13:42:33 (permalink)
    These are all nice add-ons to what we had, but not replacements... The toolset was closer to my needs in it's earlier version and only in need of more refinement. Now I've lost that...

    The split tool is a great example...

    In the past I simply clicked on where I wanted to split and press S...

    Now I have to first locate the now curser in the top portion of a clip then click again in the bottom portion to have it selected, then finally clicking S to split it.... Tell me how this is better for me?

    Keni


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    #29
    Mod Bod
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    Re:Edit Filter - Quick tips 2010/12/19 13:55:37 (permalink)

    In the past I simply clicked on where I wanted to split and press S... Now I have to first locate the now curser in the top portion of a clip then click again in the bottom portion to have it selected, then finally clicking S to split it.... Tell me how this is better for me?
    No you don't.  In an Audio clip for example, hold down the ALT key and you will see a scissor icon appear with a vertical line above it.  Line the vertical line up with where you want to split and a left mouse click splits the clip.  It's as easy as it ever was.
    post edited by Mod Bod - 2010/12/19 14:07:28

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    #30
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