X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed

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HumbleNoise
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2010/12/22 14:07:01 (permalink)

X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed

I'm a bit amazed by how many have decided that X1 is the buggiest Sonar ever, and a rushed beta, and bad coding, and on and on, only to read those users haven't upgraded nor installed it.

Really trying to understand that point of view - but I don't.

I'm a casual user and dove in and have been having a blast with it. Fits my brain SO much better than 8.xx.

'Casual user' of course being the key, but if I'm a professional user making my living off of my DAW software there's no way I'm upgrading anyway, or i'm upgrading and dabbling until I can transition.

But to say X1 or X1a is a bug fest when you haven't even upgraded?

I don't get it. It might work great for you but you'll never know.

Humbly Yours

Larry

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    Fernando
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 14:14:15 (permalink)
    I am still with 8.5

    My humble opinion is that it is a good software. I Know SONAR very well and have been a Cakewalker since the Dos days, I seem to know or have a good guess on the issues.
    I am leaning quite a bit by hanging in here.
    I think once all the bugs are gone, it will be hard to beat the value of X1. The Pro Chanel alone is worth the upgrade.

    Fernando
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    Done with SONAR, of course
    #2
    Middleman
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 15:03:25 (permalink)
    I am still with 8.5.3 watching from the sidelines. My view:

    There are fanboys
    There are fanboys who have turned
    There are those with wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    There are a couple of people who are actually running smooth.

    It's hard to sort out and until things are clearer X1 is not going on my DAW.

    " I need my pain" Captain Kirk (I don't however want anymore)


    Gear: A bunch of stuff.
    #3
    himalaya
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 16:10:37 (permalink)
    I don't have it installed (haven't bought it) and I'm not sure I will. Reading user experiences at the moment it appears to me that X1 needs much more work before it can be ready for prime time.

    One issue which has really disapointed me is that fact that X1 is designed for hi-res monitors. Cakewalk has made a decision to cut off a lot of users who use laptops with 1280x800 screen resolution. There are user reports that the ProChannel is not fully visible at this resolution. I find this actully offensive, that a company is so blind as to forget that there are users using laptops with that resolution. It's as if they had made a concious decision to abandon users like myself in favour of new customers coming to Sonar for the first time.

    In my honest view, there should be at least two user interfaces designed for smaller and larger resolution. This would constitue more work for Cakewlak, but it would surely be richly rewarded by happy customers.

    By the way, I'm neither a fanboy nor a hater, I'm simply a user who relies on Sonar for professional work 24/7. The problem for me is, I can't just keep on using 8.5 since I also do beta testing and need to be up to date, using the latest version of my host. So with development of Sonar 8.5 now stopped, I have to look at other hosts.

    I'm going to wait for the X1 demo, then see how it performs on my laptop and make a decision accordingly.




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    #4
    Guest
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 16:15:10 (permalink)
    himalaya


    I don't have it installed (haven't bought it) and I'm not sure I will. Reading user experiences at the moment it appears to me that X1 needs much more work before it can be ready for prime time.

    One issue which has really disapointed me is that fact that X1 is designed for hi-res monitors. Cakewalk has made a decision to cut off a lot of users who use laptops with 1280x800 screen resolution. There are user reports that the ProChannel is not fully visible at this resolution. I find this actully offensive, that a company is so blind as to forget that there are users using laptops with that resolution. It's as if they had made a concious decision to abandon users like myself in favour of new customers coming to Sonar for the first time.

    In my honest view, there should be at least two user interfaces designed for smaller and larger resolution. This would constitue more work for Cakewlak, but it would surely be richly rewarded by happy customers.

    By the way, I'm neither a fanboy nor a hater, I'm simply a user who relies on Sonar for professional work 24/7. The problem for me is, I can't just keep on using 8.5 since I also do beta testing and need to be up to date, using the latest version of my host. So with development of Sonar 8.5 now stopped, I have to look at other hosts.

    I'm going to wait for the X1 demo, then see how it performs on my laptop and make a decision accordingly.


    It looks like crap on what is quickly becoming the monitor resolution, 1920x1080. It's like it permanently has Windows Accessibility on.
    #5
    StarTekh
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 16:34:30 (permalink)

    > From what ive seen here .. It seems people that are run
    > ing 8.5.3 with no issues ..are not willing to make a new
    > hardware profile for X1.. just because 8.5.3 runns fine
    > does not mean x1 wont have different requirements.

    > old chipset/inf driver..old video driver. firmware for ur
    > audio card and Bios. you might need todo some work to

    > anyone that needs hardware support .ask up ... jon..

    > Hardware Profle #-2 is inorder...
    #6
    awal
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 16:43:22 (permalink)

     

    X1 here, never crashed and smooth as silk.



    awal
    #7
    Jimbo 88
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:06:42 (permalink)
    I have ordered a boxed version of x1.  It hasn't shipped yet.  I don't want it to get here for another couple of weeks 'cause I've got a couple of projects to work on and if i was smart (I am NOT) I would wait until those projects leave before i load X1.

    I am very good on S8.  I don't adapt to change quickly.  From what I've been reading here I might want take this update slow.  But Honestly I don't know who or what to believe.  All the complaining and problems are things i seem to go thru everytime I update anything (computor or software).  In the begining  the system locks up , crashes,  I can't find anything, can't get simple things to work.  I end up doing things the long, hard way just to get thru the day.    But as time passes the system will stabalize and I start becoming very productive.   I hope this happens with X1...  and notation gets upgraded... and video features are enhanced....etc.

    Life will go on
    #8
    Reegs
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:08:29 (permalink)
    himalaya


    I don't have it installed (haven't bought it) and I'm not sure I will. Reading user experiences at the moment it appears to me that X1 needs much more work before it can be ready for prime time.

    One issue which has really disapointed me is that fact that X1 is designed for hi-res monitors. Cakewalk has made a decision to cut off a lot of users who use laptops with 1280x800 screen resolution. There are user reports that the ProChannel is not fully visible at this resolution. I find this actully offensive, that a company is so blind as to forget that there are users using laptops with that resolution. It's as if they had made a concious decision to abandon users like myself in favour of new customers coming to Sonar for the first time.

    In my honest view, there should be at least two user interfaces designed for smaller and larger resolution. This would constitue more work for Cakewlak, but it would surely be richly rewarded by happy customers.

    By the way, I'm neither a fanboy nor a hater, I'm simply a user who relies on Sonar for professional work 24/7. The problem for me is, I can't just keep on using 8.5 since I also do beta testing and need to be up to date, using the latest version of my host. So with development of Sonar 8.5 now stopped, I have to look at other hosts.

    I'm going to wait for the X1 demo, then see how it performs on my laptop and make a decision accordingly.


    Wait, SERIOUSLY? A DESIGN DECISION is why I can't view the entire contents of the channel strips on my computer which meets the minimum display specs?

    http://www.cakewalk.com/P...px/System-Requirements

    I'm unwilling to believe that, but I've been going out of my mind trying to figure out why I can't see full strips. I was thinking I missed an option and was very surprised to not see a resize button or a drag control. I thought it was still a GUI bug (and was again surprised X1a hadn't fixed it).

    This really, really annoys me and has kept me from using the program.

    Do you possibly have a link to a CW rep or thread discussing this?

    Thanks



    #9
    StarTekh
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:16:29 (permalink)

    >>Reegs tell me the make and model of the motherboard
    >> the make and model of the video card
    >> and the make and model of your sound device ..jon
    #10
    StarTekh
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:17:54 (permalink)
    StarTekh


    >>Reegs tell me the make and model of the motherboard
    >> the make and model of the video card
    >> and the make and model of your sound device ..jon


    >> and the OS your working in...
    #11
    glen55
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:18:59 (permalink)
    Well, if you don't want to install it until you have a level of confidence that it's not buggy, there's kind of no option but to make up your mind without installing it, is there?

    The Beatles, Sinatra, Elton John, Zappa, Steely Dan, Howlin' Wolf, Pink Floyd, Al Green, ELO,  Nickelback, at the moment. Yourself?
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    himalaya
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:19:24 (permalink)
    Reegs, I think you misunderstood me. :-)  When I said that it was a "design decision", I didn't mean that a Cakewalk rep said that it was so. I wrote that as my guess, a conclusion drawn from the way the GUI has turned out vs user comments. And you are another user describing a problem relating to the oversize GUI.

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    #13
    himalaya
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 17:28:59 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88



    I am very good on S8.  I don't adapt to change quickly.  From what I've been reading here I might want take this update slow.  But Honestly I don't know who or what to believe.  All the complaining and problems are things i seem to go thru everytime I update anything (computor or software).  In the begining  the system locks up , crashes,  I can't find anything, can't get simple things to work.  I end up doing things the long, hard way just to get thru the day.    But as time passes the system will stabalize and I start becoming very productive.   I hope this happens with X1...  and notation gets upgraded... and video features are enhanced....etc.

    Life will go on


    Change is the only constant in life, :-) so yes, I personally don't mind it. In fact, I better be ready as life is quick to bring on changes. Personally I would look forward to X1 for one very particular reason: I read that it performs better with VSTs than 8.5! Since I'm not that happy with 8.5's performance at low latencies, X1 would suit me better (if the claims are indeed true).

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    #14
    bitflipper
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 21:54:46 (permalink)
    I read that it performs better with VSTs than 8.5! Since I'm not that happy with 8.5's performance at low latencies, X1 would suit me better (if the claims are indeed true).

    OK, I admit I'm one of those who have not installed X1. But think about it: how do you suppose a different UI would make VSTs "perform better"? X1 is still essentially 8.5 under the hood. There has been no mention of any low-level optimization in this version.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    bvideo
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 22:27:41 (permalink)
    From the fine print: new compiler and "... Additionally some common operations have been further optimized for SSE which is available on all current processor families..." There was no word on actual performance enhancement though.

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    riture
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 23:46:55 (permalink)
    As a Software Developer (not that my opinions are more qualified) I upgraded from Sonar 8.5 and chose to 'LEARN' Sonar X1 step-by-step and so far a smooth ride. Using 64-bit version on Windows 7 and I have to admit it is damn powerful. 

    Our DAW computers are very different and depending on hardware, driver versions, other software, memory... there is likelihood someone will get conflicts or incompatibility issues and this can be said about ANY software and not just Sonar.

    I am not a fanboy and cannot defend Sonar too hard as some people have genuine problems but some complaints appear to be deliberately deceptive.
    #17
    StarTekh
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/22 23:49:58 (permalink)
    riture


    As a Software Developer (not that my opinions are more qualified) I upgraded from Sonar 8.5 and chose to 'LEARN' Sonar X1 step-by-step and so far a smooth ride. Using 64-bit version on Windows 7 and I have to admit it is damn powerful. 

    Our DAW computers are very different and depending on hardware, driver versions, other software, memory... there is likelihood someone will get conflicts or incompatibility issues and this can be said about ANY software and not just Sonar.

    I am not a fanboy and cannot defend Sonar too hard as some people have genuine problems but some complaints appear to be deliberately deceptive.


    >> I cant agree more ..Jon
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    Jimbo 88
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 00:11:55 (permalink)
    +1

    Yes,  it appears to me also  that there are some people are coming on the forum and ripping X1 as trolls 
    #19
    John
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 00:42:10 (permalink)

    But think about it: how do you suppose a different UI would make VSTs "perform better"? X1 is still essentially 8.5 under the hood
    I didn't know that 8.5 was so bad in how it performed. I have seen posts extolling somewhat better performance of X1 over 8.5.3. Also many people have stated that X1 starts a lot faster. Even if the underlying code for processing that X1 does is very much like the code of 8 I don't see that as an argument against X1. But one thing that CW has stated is that many of the bugs that were in 8.xx were fixed in X1. True new bugs have cropped up and a few from 8 are still there but many are in fact gone if we can believe the posters and CW. From what I gather from what has not been said i.e no reports about automation, it seems to have undergone a major rewrite. The old bugs seem to have been vanquished.

    Also some of the negative response is due to the screen shot that CW is using for promoting X1. It is so crowded and squished together that we so use to a track view that was far more open and showing a lot more actual data of MIDI or audio that we can see how it will work out well.

    We with dual monitors don't need the "laptop" look. Yet it was not made clear that the view that CW uses is one of many and not the only one that X1 can be setup with. It can in fact show at least as many tracks as the former Sonar did. I believe it can show more. But that is only speculation. I think that is the key. We who do not have X1 are only speculating at best and guessing at worst. We ought to be a little less critical until we have spent enough time with it and understand it a lot more. 
     


    post edited by John - 2010/12/23 01:05:04

    Best
    John
    #20
    LpMike75
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 00:55:20 (permalink)
    Having upgraded to X1, I would love to use it without issues or complaining.  The fact is, it crashes frequently and I am forced to do my work in 8.5.3..which rarely crashes for me.  I've reinstalled several times (after fully uninstalling from my registry) and it still crashes. 

    Some hardware driver updates can be scary, as I updated my video driver several months ago and it completely reaked havoc with my system and I had to revert back to the previous driver.

    I sure would love to dive deeper into X1 and get annoyed by the bugs that others have been complaining of, but the fact is I cannot get past the crashing.  I use 8.5.3 side by side and end up completing my projects with that.  Why would 8.5.3 be stable and not X1? Is it because my video card driver is 1 version behind?  Seems unlikely.

    X1 has some really cool features, I hope they can somehow hash out the stability issues so I can use it more.  Of course, it will be hard to figure out whats going on with the horrid tech support reporting system they have in place....oh man here I go again with that....



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    #21
    himalaya
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 06:02:25 (permalink)
    bitflipper



    I read that it performs better with VSTs than 8.5! Since I'm not that happy with 8.5's performance at low latencies, X1 would suit me better (if the claims are indeed true).

    OK, I admit I'm one of those who have not installed X1. But think about it: how do you suppose a different UI would make VSTs "perform better"? X1 is still essentially 8.5 under the hood. There has been no mention of any low-level optimization in this version.


    I have no idea. However, I have read user reports which point to a better overall performance. I'm hopeful that it is true, since 8.5 is *still* not as 'drop-out' free at low latencies as other hosts I have tried.

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    #22
    himalaya
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 06:15:24 (permalink)
    John




    Also some of the negative response is due to the screen shot that CW is using for promoting X1. It is so crowded and squished together that we so use to a track view that was far more open and showing a lot more actual data of MIDI or audio that we can see how it will work out well.

    We with dual monitors don't need the "laptop" look. Yet it was not made clear that the view that CW uses is one of many and not the only one that X1 can be setup with. It can in fact show at least as many tracks as the former Sonar did. I believe it can show more. But that is only speculation. I think that is the key. We who do not have X1 are only speculating at best and guessing at worst. We ought to be a little less critical until we have spent enough time with it and understand it a lot more. 


    It has been confirmed by at least one user with a laptop that the ProChannel is not fully visible. I don't understand what you mean John by "We with dual monitors don't need the "laptop" look". Conversely, those with laptops don't need the oversized look made for large resolution screens. As I have written above, in this day and age, offering a GUI which is scalable or which has at least two different resolution sizes is the way to go. There are a myriad of monitors and screen resolutions. For a company to believe that only the larger ones are used is foolish.

    As to real problems with the GUI ( not just bugs and crach reports) there are examples where the new design implementation has taken the workflow backwards. I'm refering to the synth rack here and its re-design which makes it very difficult to see if a synth is on or off. Or how to access the on/off buttton. A seemingly trivial issue, but which affects some of us very much. There is a thread about it.


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    #23
    Twigman
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 06:18:09 (permalink)
    I have upgraded to X1 and it is running smoothly.
    No crashes.
    My gripes with X1 centre around the changes in workflow which are supposed to make life easier:

    No reordering of tracks in the CV
    Having to select from the Edit Filter drop down rather than having a mouse position contextual right click menu.

    and things X1 has broken:

    The way the X1 install removes the DX version of DimPro (without warning) which makes it nigh on impossible to identify what patches and settings on old projects that used it.
    The broken audio snap


    I found 8.5 and prior far more accessible and intuitive....X1 feels illogical to me...that might just be a question of familiarity...time will tell.


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    #24
    Crg
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 07:26:42 (permalink)
    I think it's going to be good. Perhaps by Monday I'll have it installed on one machine. Though I'm sure there will be problems installing it on an off the shelf HP-Win 7 64 bit PC, I can't say for sure. It may run smooth. That will give me time to study it before I drop it on the DAW with the VS700. 

    Craig DuBuc
    #25
    dp2boy
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 09:21:38 (permalink)
    I've installed it, it runs smoothly with no crashes but after only 1 day on it I would say that I feel like I'm just working with a new skin. There are some nice features as far as workflow with the dockable features but none of it outweighs the terrible color combinations.
    #26
    John
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 10:22:37 (permalink)
    I don't understand what you mean John by "We with dual monitors don't need the "laptop" look".
    I mean that it was designed for one monitor work flow. Not that it can't run well on a dual monitor setup. Just that that screen shot is showing it as it would be used sometimes on a single monitor.

    As to real problems with the GUI ( not just bugs and crach reports) there are examples where the new design implementation has taken the workflow backwards.
    I have seen a lot of mixed reports on this point. Some say its faster for them other say its slower.

    I do notice that those that come to it fresh tend to like how it works, Those that are old Sonar users tend to have problems with how it works.

    I think that some removals were premature or not well considered by CW. Yet everything as far as I can tell are very doable just the same.

    Best
    John
    #27
    himalaya
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 15:24:06 (permalink)
    John
    I think that some removals were premature or not well considered by CW. Yet everything as far as I can tell are very doable just the same.


    Yes, that's how I feel too. I appreciate the new GUI and new workflow, which we can learn. But as you mention, any mysterious removals and ill thought re-design (that synth rack for example) is perplexing.

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    #28
    Brandon Ryan [Roland]
    Max Output Level: -40.5 dBFS
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 15:43:59 (permalink)
    Twigman


    I have upgraded to X1 and it is running smoothly.
    No crashes.
    My gripes with X1 centre around the changes in workflow which are supposed to make life easier:
    Couple of tips and info that are hopefully helpful.
    No reordering of tracks in the CV
    This should be added back in an update.
    Having to select from the Edit Filter drop down rather than having a mouse position contextual right click menu.

    You may or may not know this, but you can get to the Edit Filter by just middle mouse clicking wherever your mouse is (not any worse that right-clicking) or you can just shift+click on the data you want to edit and the Edit Filter is set automatically.


    "The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG

    SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
    #29
    himalaya
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
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    Re:X1 Opinions From Those Who Do Not Yet Have it Installed 2010/12/23 15:53:47 (permalink)
    Any thoughts on why the synth rack is now more complex to use Brandon ?

    http://www.electric-himalaya.com
    VSTi and hardware synth patches
    #30
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