Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips

Author
Steven Bell
Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 1288
  • Joined: 2003/11/04 10:19:22
  • Location: Duvall, Washington, USA
  • Status: offline
2012/05/08 12:05:40 (permalink)

Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips

Set a loop over a selection
Set the punch points as a subset within that loop range
Option to store takes in a single track
(My test was using four tracks)
Record multiple times through.
Expected: the audio from all takes lines up
Actual: each subsequent take is a little later than the previous
 
Could there be a setting I have messed up?
No input monitoring, no effects.
 
Steven

Steven Bell
Owner, Chief Engineer
Top of the Hill Music
http://www.topofthehillmusic.com/
#1

14 Replies Related Threads

    TechLo
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 105
    • Joined: 2006/08/04 12:09:37
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 13:33:15 (permalink)
    Are you  looping audio or midi tracks?  I've had a problem looping midi tracks (as that's primarily all I'm using while looping) for every version of Sonar I've used dating back to the original, I believe.  So incredibly annoying to set up a kick & snare in a clip, for example, and some hi-hats on another, and listen to them drift further apart with each successive loop.  Doesn't matter if the clips are regular or converted to step sequences, the drift always happens.

    There's nothing in the settings I'm aware of to remedy this problem, but like you, I wonder still if it's something I've overlooked (thought I doubt it). 

    I've recently toyed with the idea of making Sonar my primary sequencer but things like this it frustrating.

    I'll start a thread of my own if we don't get any satisfactory answers in this one.
    #2
    Steven Bell
    Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1288
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 10:19:22
    • Location: Duvall, Washington, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 13:38:39 (permalink)
    This was just audio, no MIDI. 
    #3
    bvideo
    Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1707
    • Joined: 2006/09/02 22:20:02
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 13:45:54 (permalink)
    When I was checking the X1 fix for ASIO loop recording without punch-in recording, I also checked using loop with punch-in and found some weird results. So I wonder if older versions of punch-in worked, and the latest fix for loop recording broke punch-in. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2508189
    #4
    Steven Bell
    Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1288
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 10:19:22
    • Location: Duvall, Washington, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 15:50:26 (permalink)
    I did some measuring and some math.  Found that the offsets are about 350 samples which is the amount SONAR indicates as the offset for my sound card.  Hmmm...
    #5
    Cactus Music
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 8424
    • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 16:06:11 (permalink)
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2564955 solution was to use groove clips.

    Johnny V  
    Cakelab  
    Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
    3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
     http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
     
     
    #6
    TechLo
    Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 105
    • Joined: 2006/08/04 12:09:37
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 17:14:36 (permalink)
    Cactus Music


    http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2564955 solution was to use groove clips.


    Not true for me.  I've tried regular clips, groove clips and  step sequences.  I double-checked the groove clips to make sure they're the same length.  They still drift noticeably about the 5th or 6th time repeated, getting progressively worse.  I have an i7 - processing  power is not the issue.  Maybe I'll mess around with some of the buffers.
    #7
    Steven Bell
    Max Output Level: -65 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1288
    • Joined: 2003/11/04 10:19:22
    • Location: Duvall, Washington, USA
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 22:04:51 (permalink)
    Just to be clear.  I am simply recording audio.  The transport is looping.  I am not creating loops.  In this instance I was creating a "choir" effect by singing the various parts by standing in different places in the room while the playback looped over the chorus.

    Afterwards when I looked at the lanes on each track I saw that each take was a bit later than the one before it. 

    So I recorded the click track and did the same thing (to rule out the human factor).  That's how I was able to measure the offset.
    #8
    bvideo
    Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1707
    • Joined: 2006/09/02 22:20:02
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 22:53:49 (permalink)
    Steven Bell, since you've developed a procedure to quantify the error, we users would be grateful if you would submit a bug report! A workaround for you might be use loop recording without using punch-in. After you have your multiple takes in layers, you can bounce them to your chorus and then trim the two ends.
    #9
    bentleyousley
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 279
    • Joined: 2004/12/24 15:19:40
    • Location: Kansas City
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/08 23:20:54 (permalink)
    bvideo


    A workaround for you might be use loop recording without using punch-in. 

    In my experience, any loop recording (with or without punch-in) causes this problem.  I posted a similar question a few days ago and the suggestion was made to change the record latency offset to better match the latency of the interface. Although the first track does line-up better,  the problem still existed on later looped tracks.

    Once and Future Cities: A Fractal Journey https://youtu.be/j6JkKmh4wXY
    #10
    Bristol_Jonesey
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 16775
    • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
    • Location: Bristol, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/05/09 04:37:20 (permalink)
    This happened to em a while back when I was attempting to nail a guitar solo = each subsequent take was fractionally later than the preceding take.

    However, I did exactly the same thing a couple of nights ago and everything lined up perfectly, so for me, it's non-repeatable.

    I think it might have something to do with a combination of your snap setting and the setting of your loop points - but don't quote me!

    CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
    Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
    #11
    scoco
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 9
    • Joined: 2004/12/04 09:55:52
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/06/10 19:14:29 (permalink)
    I =KNEW= I played that take tighter than that! I'm experiencing the same thing recording multiple takes while looping with punch-in, Sound-on-Sound, and Mute Previous Takes. Infuriating!
    #12
    tlw
    Max Output Level: -49.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 2567
    • Joined: 2008/10/11 22:06:32
    • Location: West Midlands, UK
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2012/06/11 17:48:53 (permalink)
    There's a very long standing Sonar bug (several versions old) that seems to affect loop length when loop recording so that either the last few milliseconds of each loop are missing or the loops are different lengths.

    For whatever reason most systems seem immune to this bug. Mine was immune when using a Delta44 - it appeared when I switched to a  (Cakewalk badged) UA-101 interface.

    In my case the work around is to use WASAPI drivers (which also gives me significantly lower latencies than using ASIO with this interface), which would seem to indicate it's  probably a driver-related issue one way or another.

    I reported it as a bug well over a year ago, to get the response that the report had been "passed to developers". None of the updates scince seem to have sorted it out though :-(

    Sonar Platinum 64bit, Windows 8.1 Pro 64bit, I7 3770K Ivybridge, 16GB Ram, Gigabyte Z77-D3H m/board,
    ATI 7750 graphics+ 1GB RAM, 2xIntel 520 series 220GB SSDs, 1 TB Samsung F3 + 1 TB WD HDDs, Seasonic fanless 460W psu, RME Fireface UFX, Focusrite Octopre.
    Assorted real synths, guitars, mandolins, diatonic accordions, percussion, fx and other stuff.
    #13
    DZarob2012
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 10
    • Joined: 2012/12/18 15:41:58
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2013/02/14 08:34:16 (permalink)
    Just an FYI everyone, this is still an issue, at least for me.
    #14
    bvideo
    Max Output Level: -58 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1707
    • Joined: 2006/09/02 22:20:02
    • Status: offline
    Re:Loop Recording Results in Increasing Offseted Clips 2013/02/14 09:58:01 (permalink)
    @ DZarob2012: Have you tried with and without punch in/out? (This post) Thanks,
      Bill B.
    #15
    Jump to:
    © 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1