X2 and VST3?

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cliffr
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/09 00:07:57 (permalink)
Blogman


A good example of needing VST3 is when using Vocal Rider (amazing btw-) It has the option to sidechain the music so that it compensates for the music getting louder whilst riding the vocal. This function is grayed out in Sonar as VST2 doesn't support sidechaining. Sucks to spend the big bucks on WAVES plugs only to find your DAW doesn't utilize the latest technology. So now we wait for VST3 support. Must Have!!

Sidechaining in VST2 has been there forever - lots of VST2 plugs have sidechaining.
It may be that there's a different implementation of sidechaining in VST3.
But that's not the same as "VST2 doesn't support it" ... it does.
 
 
Different people will have different reasons for wanting to go VST3, or trying to avoid it.
 
Each to his own I say.
 
Myself ... I'm not aware of any reason that VST3 will make a big difference for me today (either negatively or positively) ... BUT
...that could change at any moment. All it takes is someone to point something out which I was not previously aware of, and how it could be a worthwhile thing for me.
 
So at the moment, I'm in nowhere mans land - not even on the fence, it's literally a non-issue (for me) today.
 
I'll be interested to have a good nose through this thread after it's developed a bit, and see if there's anything that changes my mind at all.
 
 
I'm interested to know what/why this issue exists with "Vocal Rider".
Maybe it is to do with the VST3 sidechaining implementation ?.
 
 
Cheers - Cliff

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#31
SToons
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/09 03:51:53 (permalink)
Blogman


A good example of needing VST3 is when using Vocal Rider (amazing btw-) It has the option to sidechain the music so that it compensates for the music getting louder whilst riding the vocal. This function is grayed out in Sonar as VST2 doesn't support sidechaining. Sucks to spend the big bucks on WAVES plugs only to find your DAW doesn't utilize the latest technology. So now we wait for VST3 support. Must Have!!


Not to mention Morphoder, any Waves comp that uses sidechain, and, worst of all for me, no Waves Surround plugin capability. I'm still using 8.5.3 and the way things are looking my next purchase will be Nuendo or something but not X1 or X2. At this point I'd rather have use of the plugins I already paid for then to upgrade to a product that won't support them. I'd be hard pressed to believe there is much that can be done in the ProChannel that can't be done as well or better with the Waves plugins. Sadly, it really is a deal breaker for me at the moment.
#32
Pragi
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/09 06:54:29 (permalink)
To me the question of this fred should be:
Why no Vst 3 in X2 ?
  If Cake  upgrades this advanced DAW (X1)  ,then I think this is no question. 



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#33
anotherzen
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 10:11:17 (permalink)
panup


Which VST3 effects would you guys buy if it was supported by X2?

I have already bought Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, and straight after i jumped ship to from X1 to Cubase, because the VST2 version is cumbersome as hell. And that is the only reason i need to want VST3 support ^^ If it comes in X2, i'm coming back to Cakewalk in a jiffy.

Another reason is.. why not?
#34
Jonbouy
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 10:14:20 (permalink)
Do we even know if VST3 support isn't going to be included yet?



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#35
munmun
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 15:22:04 (permalink)
I bought Waves Vocal Rider and then realized that it does not work in Sonar because of lack of VST3 support.  I want it!
#36
JSkeen
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 15:28:49 (permalink)
for what its worth they done vst3 for z3ta 2 on the mac version
#37
SteveStrummerUK
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 18:12:51 (permalink)
What's a VST?
 
 
 
Is it still 20%?
 
 

 Music:        VeRy MeTaL

 
 
#38
bz2838
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 19:26:11 (permalink)
All my waves V9 plugs work in X1 with no problems, use them all the time
#39
SToons
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/10 23:55:10 (permalink)
bz2838


All my waves V9 plugs work in X1 with no problems, use them all the time

There are certain plugins/features which you have overlooked as already mentioned in this thread. Morphoder does not accept MIDI input. Nor the Waves Surround Plugins. The C6-Sidechain feature does not work nor the Vocal Rider. There are others. Waves have documented this on their site.
http://www.wavesupport.net/Objects/Images/Product%20Info/Supported_Hosts_Charts/V9_pc.html
#40
bz2838
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/11 08:33:48 (permalink)
SToons


bz2838


All my waves V9 plugs work in X1 with no problems, use them all the time

There are certain plugins/features which you have overlooked as already mentioned in this thread. Morphoder does not accept MIDI input. Nor the Waves Surround Plugins. The C6-Sidechain feature does not work nor the Vocal Rider. There are others. Waves have documented this on their site.
http://www.wavesupport.net/Objects/Images/Product%20Info/Supported_Hosts_Charts/V9_pc.html
 
 
You're right, guess I better jump on the VST3 bandwagon, get with it Bakers!
#41
Mystic38
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/11 09:15:20 (permalink)
Jonbouy


Do we even know if VST3 support isn't going to be included yet?




nope, we dont.. so this entire thread is "much ado about nothing" :)

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#42
Blogman
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/11 09:26:49 (permalink)
Yes, it's documented on the Cake site that VST2 does support side chaining, however, waves VST2 versions Do not. Vocal rider in Sonar will Ride the Vocal as per your target dbs, But without VST3 the Music can't be sidechained back in to Further ride the vocal when the music goes up and down. Still have to go back and do automating to compensate for the music. Also, I use Vienna Ensemble 5/MIR (Best orchestra mixing software on the planet... Holy Crap!! Love it), Don't like sonar's vst2 limitation of 16 midi channels. Still have 8 more channels in MIR24 have to work around with Event inputs and such. I now I'm finding out Waves surround plugs aren't compatible in Sonar. Honestly, Vienna makes the MOST stable software I've EVER used. Their customer support is AMAZING. AND best of all, THEY (as apposed to other software companies) support their products and the Professionals that use their products,and they update FREQUENTLY, AND listen to their customers. I'm going to write and BEG them to go ahead and make the full DAW. Listen to the MIR demos, look at the site. Vienna Suite is all 64bit precision mixing/mastering tools as well. Sorry, getting off topic, still peeved at the LACK of X1 support, and how it was abandoned and just left BROKEN and Buggy in the Bakery. Don't like being screwed as a customer. That will come back and bite Cake in their proverbial ass. As for VST3, no brainer, MUST HAVE, will have... if not in Sonar, another software company.
#43
Jonbouy
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/11 11:14:00 (permalink)
Mystic38


Jonbouy


Do we even know if VST3 support isn't going to be included yet?




nope, we dont.. so this entire thread is "much ado about nothing" :)



Indeed...



"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#44
anotherzen
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/14 05:09:46 (permalink)
Blogman


Yes, it's documented on the Cake site that VST2 does support side chaining, however, waves VST2 versions Do not. Vocal rider in Sonar will Ride the Vocal as per your target dbs, But without VST3 the Music can't be sidechained back in to Further ride the vocal when the music goes up and down. Still have to go back and do automating to compensate for the music. Also, I use Vienna Ensemble 5/MIR (Best orchestra mixing software on the planet... Holy Crap!! Love it), Don't like sonar's vst2 limitation of 16 midi channels. Still have 8 more channels in MIR24 have to work around with Event inputs and such. I now I'm finding out Waves surround plugs aren't compatible in Sonar. Honestly, Vienna makes the MOST stable software I've EVER used. Their customer support is AMAZING. AND best of all, THEY (as apposed to other software companies) support their products and the Professionals that use their products,and they update FREQUENTLY, AND listen to their customers. I'm going to write and BEG them to go ahead and make the full DAW. Listen to the MIR demos, look at the site. Vienna Suite is all 64bit precision mixing/mastering tools as well. Sorry, getting off topic, still peeved at the LACK of X1 support, and how it was abandoned and just left BROKEN and Buggy in the Bakery. Don't like being screwed as a customer. That will come back and bite Cake in their proverbial ass. As for VST3, no brainer, MUST HAVE, will have... if not in Sonar, another software company.

+1

#45
cliffr
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/14 05:42:39 (permalink)
Blogman


Yes, it's documented on the Cake site that VST2 does support side chaining, however, waves VST2 versions Do not. Vocal rider in Sonar will Ride the Vocal as per your target dbs, But without VST3 the Music can't be sidechained back in to Further ride the vocal when the music goes up and down. Still have to go back and do automating to compensate for the music. Also, I use Vienna Ensemble 5/MIR (Best orchestra mixing software on the planet... Holy Crap!! Love it), Don't like sonar's vst2 limitation of 16 midi channels. Still have 8 more channels in MIR24 have to work around with Event inputs and such. I now I'm finding out Waves surround plugs aren't compatible in Sonar. Honestly, Vienna makes the MOST stable software I've EVER used. Their customer support is AMAZING. AND best of all, THEY (as apposed to other software companies) support their products and the Professionals that use their products,and they update FREQUENTLY, AND listen to their customers. I'm going to write and BEG them to go ahead and make the full DAW. Listen to the MIR demos, look at the site. Vienna Suite is all 64bit precision mixing/mastering tools as well. Sorry, getting off topic, still peeved at the LACK of X1 support, and how it was abandoned and just left BROKEN and Buggy in the Bakery. Don't like being screwed as a customer. That will come back and bite Cake in their proverbial ass. As for VST3, no brainer, MUST HAVE, will have... if not in Sonar, another software company.


Hey Blogman (and others),

thanks for making me listen, and go do some reasearch.

Like I said, it doesn't affect me right at the minute, but I totally see your point and I'm convinced.
I think VST3 support really does need to be a priority, and I see exactly why it's so irritating for any of you with plugs that require it for certain features.

It would be at least nice to know it's coming, but I understand the frustration when there's just no word on it whatsoever.

Here's hoping there's maybe another surprise feature coming in X2 ... since for now, we can only hope.

Thanks guys, you've enlightened me :-)


Cheers - Cliff

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#46
Freddie H
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/14 08:36:37 (permalink)
chefmike8888


LANEY


VST3 is important!

Don't you mean:


VST3 is important! ...?

  Sorry Freddie, I couldn't resist.  


Mike

 
Its okay Mike but you have a point. It is important!
 
It's irrelevant if Cakewalk or anybody else feels that the new format doesn’t bring any new to the table.
 
VST3 is here and it's here stay, period!
The fact is that there are numerous plugins that do support it already any many plugins new functionality need VST3 support. That should be enough making Cakewalk add VST3 support to add these functionality to the program.
 
So yes, adding VST3 to SONAR X2 is essential!

 
 


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#47
Freddie H
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/14 08:41:33 (permalink)
munmun


I bought Waves Vocal Rider and then realized that it does not work in Sonar because of lack of VST3 support.  I want it!


Good example why need of adding VST3 to SONAR X2 is essential


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#48
Freddie H
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/14 08:45:22 (permalink)
anotherzen


Blogman


Yes, it's documented on the Cake site that VST2 does support side chaining, however, waves VST2 versions Do not. Vocal rider in Sonar will Ride the Vocal as per your target dbs, But without VST3 the Music can't be sidechained back in to Further ride the vocal when the music goes up and down. Still have to go back and do automating to compensate for the music. Also, I use Vienna Ensemble 5/MIR (Best orchestra mixing software on the planet... Holy Crap!! Love it), Don't like sonar's vst2 limitation of 16 midi channels. Still have 8 more channels in MIR24 have to work around with Event inputs and such. I now I'm finding out Waves surround plugs aren't compatible in Sonar. Honestly, Vienna makes the MOST stable software I've EVER used. Their customer support is AMAZING. AND best of all, THEY (as apposed to other software companies) support their products and the Professionals that use their products,and they update FREQUENTLY, AND listen to their customers. I'm going to write and BEG them to go ahead and make the full DAW. Listen to the MIR demos, look at the site. Vienna Suite is all 64bit precision mixing/mastering tools as well. Sorry, getting off topic, still peeved at the LACK of X1 support, and how it was abandoned and just left BROKEN and Buggy in the Bakery. Don't like being screwed as a customer. That will come back and bite Cake in their proverbial ass. As for VST3, no brainer, MUST HAVE, will have... if not in Sonar, another software company.

+1


Good example again...


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#49
Blogman
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2012/08/14 09:33:58 (permalink)
Not to mention Anatares (who Still hasn't made their 'flagships' AT7 and Auto tune Evo 64 bit yet) recently added Auto tune live which says...."Auto-Tune Live includes RTAS, VST and Audio Unit versions. VST and Audio Unit versions are 64-bit compatible. The VST versions require a host that supports VST3"
#50
Freddie H
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 04:45:24 (permalink)
I have now change my main DAW to Cubase 7 because of lack of interest of adding example VST3 or just making a simple bug fix update to SONAR X2.

Without to speculate, at the present time 2013-06-04 there has not been a single new update of SONAR X2 for over half year / 6month?  No official response from Cakewalk or any sign of interest of holing on to their customers... 


Best Regards
Freddie


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#51
backwoods
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 04:52:25 (permalink)
Do companies like Slate, Kush, Flux, Soundtoys, PSP, Sonalksis, Massey, Lexicon PCM, Algorithmix do VST3 yet?

Professional users don't care whether a plugin is 2.4 or 3 and the fuss made about it is idiotic.  I am fully cognizant of what VST3 offers because I own Nuendo (latest build) and it is much ado about nothing IMO.
post edited by backwoods - 2013/06/04 05:00:04
#52
rabeach
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 05:09:14 (permalink)
mike_mccue



"all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why."


I think it's the only way I'm ever going to get my keyboard to sound like a real life saxophone.











There, I said it.

;-)
As a long time student of the saxophone I with firm conviction state that will not happen until vst6 :-)

#53
Tom Riggs
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 05:10:06 (permalink)
Wow Freddie Yow revived a thread that was dead for 10 months just to say you were going to cubase. LOL

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#54
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 05:22:50 (permalink)
Freddie, if you're going, please go, and don't engage in troll activities, because that's all it is now, and it's boring.

You'll be missed, but nobody likes a troll, well, I don't.

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#55
Freddie H
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 08:03:43 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey


Freddie, if you're going, please go, and don't engage in troll activities, because that's all it is now, and it's boring.

You'll be missed, but nobody likes a troll, well, I don't.

I'm sorry!
It was not my intention to sound trolling...
 
 
Best regards
Freddie


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#56
Freddie H
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 08:11:24 (permalink)
backwoods


Do companies like Slate, Kush, Flux, Soundtoys, PSP, Sonalksis, Massey, Lexicon PCM, Algorithmix do VST3 yet?

Professional users don't care whether a plugin is 2.4 or 3 and the fuss made about it is idiotic.  I am fully cognizant of what VST3 offers because I own Nuendo (latest build) and it is much ado about nothing IMO.

You seem to forgot Waves, Melodyne, Steinberg, Cakewalk VST-softwares, EASTWEST PLAY, SPL, Brainworx, VIENNA, Fabfilter, Izotope + at least 30 other companies that do support VST3 already. 
 
Anyway I'm not here to argue. Its kind  of ironically that Cakewalk  do support VST3 on all their plugins but not inside their own DAW...
Have a great day!
 
 
Best regards
Freddie


-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
#57
KPerry
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 08:27:47 (permalink)
Not really - almost certainly a lot easier (I won't say trivial) to include VST3 support on a plug-in than in a host.  Given the previous record of the VST spec being somewhat "flexible", catering with all the ambiguities when building a host would most certainly be a lot harder than building a plug-in, testing it in a couple of hosts and releasing it.
#58
parco
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 10:17:36 (permalink)
Freddie H


chefmike8888


LANEY


VST3 is important!

Don't you mean:


VST3 is important! ...?

  Sorry Freddie, I couldn't resist.  


Mike

 
Its okay Mike but you have a point. It is important!
 
It's irrelevant if Cakewalk or anybody else feels that the new format doesn’t bring any new to the table.
 
VST3 is here and it's here stay, period!
The fact is that there are numerous plugins that do support it already any many plugins new functionality need VST3 support. That should be enough making Cakewalk add VST3 support to add these functionality to the program.
 
So yes, adding VST3 to SONAR X2 is essential!

 
 


x2


Totally agree!!!
Cannot agree more!!!
#59
dorism
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Re:X2 and VST3? 2013/06/04 10:27:14 (permalink)
Wish VST had been invested in rather than pro channels - PC feels like DXi - it will go the way of the dodo because its Cakewalk specific and no one supports it.

www.thehadroncollider.co.uk
#60
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