Doktor Avalanche 
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[Updated] Significant performance improvement for me today.
I though I'd share something with people in case they are interested. I discovered today that Windows accidentally disabled the device in device manager -> System Devices -> High Precision Event Timer. Apparently this is quite a common problem, I confirmed it shouldn't have been disabled in my case because I have two other windows partitions on the same PC which had it enabled. So I was running my Windows DAW off the software timer rather than the hardware timer on the motherboard. Once I enabled it, it made a massive difference. Should you decide to enable it (do so entirely at your own risk): 1) Make sure it isn't already enabled. 2) Make sure your motherboard is capable (most modern motherboards are). Note there was no setting in my BIOS for it (hard coded obviously), but that's where you should check first. 3) Backup! 4) Follow these instructions: http://www.ghacks.net/2013/04/18/try-changing-hpet-settings-to-improve-your-pcs-performance/ Background here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_Timer
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JonD
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:07:53
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Doktor Avalanche
....
Once I enabled it, it made a massive difference.....
In what way? (Not doubting you. Just curious, as I've never heard of this before). BTW, thanks for the tip.
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John T
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:20:15
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Interesting. I can see I have it, and have it enabled, but I don't know yet whether I've forced Windows to use only that. Based on a quick google, doing the rest but failing to do that step can make performance worse. Must have a tinker.
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bapu
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:22:06
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John T
Interesting. I can see I have it, and have it enabled, but I don't know yet whether I've forced Windows to use only that. Based on a quick google, doing the rest but failing to do that step can make performance worse. Must have a tinker.
Please define "that step"?
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John T
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:24:02
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Forcing windows to use only that timer. Apparently it can use a combination of timer methods, but that's seemingly not a good idea, at least based on a very quick read-up.
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bapu
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:24:52
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KPerry
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:29:23
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Be careful on this one, but not for the reason you might think.
I discovered this a year or so back, but instead of changing the standard boot profile, I added a second one with HPET enabled, which allowed me to toggle between the two (for testing and just in case reasons).
There was a recent (last couple of months) Windows update that failed horribly on "dual boots": it won't install and caused a stream of reboots to fix itself that had me gritting my teeth in terror.
KB3033929 I think is the Windows patch reference.
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John T
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 11:59:06
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Well, I had it on in the BIOS, but Windows wasn't set to use it. I've got it active now. Will see how it pans out.
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SF_Green
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 12:12:39
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KPerry
Be careful on this one, but not for the reason you might think.
I discovered this a year or so back, but instead of changing the standard boot profile, I added a second one with HPET enabled, which allowed me to toggle between the two (for testing and just in case reasons).
There was a recent (last couple of months) Windows update that failed horribly on "dual boots": it won't install and caused a stream of reboots to fix itself that had me gritting my teeth in terror.
KB3033929 I think is the Windows patch reference.
Which version of Windows? I'm on my phone so can't see if you have it in your signature; sorry.
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KPerry
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 12:25:47
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 12:43:51
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As I said for me Windows had it set by default on my other Windows partitions on the same PC, this was a one off. So clearly there was a system config error in my instance (not caused by me). Once I did it everything was snappier, windows would pop up immediately, latency was better. It totally worked for me no placebo effect here. If you think about it... it makes sense having a hardware timer working rather than a software one, and MS switches this on by default in most Windows installations nowadays. I did research this fully, there was previously a lot of noise and sus-picon on the internet earlier on, but then people backed down when they saw the evidence and seeing that MS does it by default nowadays for most systems. My view is that windows initially err'd on the side of caution when enabling it for some installations. Check my WIKI link for full details of the background and do some research. There have been some reports that it hasn't improved their situation, I suspect it's because the hardware timer is faulty in their motherboards or they are in need of a BIOS update/update their chipset drivers. My get out clause is as I said do this at your own risk. It's not a one time operation you can always roll back (see 4). As I say always back up.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/10 12:50:14
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 13:07:23
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KPerry
Be careful on this one, but not for the reason you might think.
I discovered this a year or so back, but instead of changing the standard boot profile, I added a second one with HPET enabled, which allowed me to toggle between the two (for testing and just in case reasons).
There was a recent (last couple of months) Windows update that failed horribly on "dual boots": it won't install and caused a stream of reboots to fix itself that had me gritting my teeth in terror.
KB3033929 I think is the Windows patch reference.
Yup it might be advisable to make sure Windows update is up to date before you do it. I would also run the optional updates as well (lots of performance updates there). If you decide to do the hotfix make sure you do it last (just before you change the clock setting). as the patch may already have been applied by that stage.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/06/10 13:13:54
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lfm
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Re: Significant performance improvement for me today.
2015/06/10 13:15:29
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For a basic hardware timing 55ms between ticks has been on every mb since day one on PC, usually for clock among other things.
High resolution timer, I used if available for benchmarking certain sections of code etc.
So have to look for this on my current daw too - even if not having performance concerns right now - thanks for tip.
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mauryw
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I found the HPET enable/disable option in my bios. But, when I ran the command line in windows and tried to disable HPET with you command, I got the following error:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Larry>bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
An error occurred while attempting to delete the specified data element.
Element not found.
What is wrong with this syntax? How do I get the command to work?
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/11 21:31:29
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mauryw
I found the HPET enable/disable option in my bios. But, when I ran the command line in windows and tried to disable HPET with you command, I got the following error:
You need to enable it in the BIOS, and then enable it in Windows, as per the article. Probably best make sure Windows update is up to date as well... always backup ... yada yada :) Cheers...
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Vastman
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Re: Not working
2015/06/11 22:50:26
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I would love Noel to weigh in on this...you should pm him and point him to this thread I'd also suggest changing the title to be more specific to attract attention.... something like "Activating High precision event timer can improve computer performance"...
post edited by Vastman - 2015/06/11 23:01:33
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/11 23:02:55
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Ah they've probably already read this and have known about it for ages I'm sure :)
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sylent
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Re: Not working
2015/06/12 00:23:24
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Great tip .. like Larry said, even if not having probs now its good to have in the tool chest and learn about.
Thanks.
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kevinwal
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Re: Not working
2015/06/12 20:41:42
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I gave this a whirl today. HPET was enabled in bios but not in windows. I enabled it in Windows and my latency increased with my aging evga x58 Mb and i7/970 hex core cpu. On the other hand I experienced a significant boost in performance by disabling it at the bios and in windows. I also found that Intel speedstep was enabled and I turned that off, but the boost was noticeable even with speedstep off.
I've read that certain chipsets show this behavior and it looks like I won that lottery. Or something. Thanks for the idea!
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DRanck
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Re: Not working
2015/06/13 17:06:50
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/13 18:48:49
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/13 18:50:14
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kevinwal
I gave this a whirl today. HPET was enabled in bios but not in windows. I enabled it in Windows and my latency increased with my aging evga x58 Mb and i7/970 hex core cpu. On the other hand I experienced a significant boost in performance by disabling it at the bios and in windows. I also found that Intel speedstep was enabled and I turned that off, but the boost was noticeable even with speedstep off.
I've read that certain chipsets show this behavior and it looks like I won that lottery. Or something. Thanks for the idea!
Try running window update, updating your motherboard BIOS, and get latest chipset drivers from the intel driver update site.
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kevinwal
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Re: Not working
2015/06/13 21:27:31
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Yes, all up to date, thanks. There is some literature on the web about specifics chipsets that do not benefit from HPET being enabled but it seems counterintuitive to me that it should be so. I'm still researching this.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Not working
2015/06/13 22:15:44
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That sounds interesting please post a link if it's any good...
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Not working
2015/06/20 04:58:25
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mauryw
I found the HPET enable/disable option in my bios. But, when I ran the command line in windows and tried to disable HPET with you command, I got the following error:
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7601]
Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\Larry>bcdedit /deletevalue useplatformclock
An error occurred while attempting to delete the specified data element.
Element not found.
What is wrong with this syntax? How do I get the command to work?
Hi mauryw. The error message indicates that you have not forced Windows to use the platform clock exclusively to any other options. bcdedit cannot delete an entry you have not set. _____________________________________ That said, here's me eating crow... for the last 8 months I have be noticing and silently blaming Sonar for an ever so slight glitchyness in midi files I've loved for years... nothing I could quite put my finger on, just not as tight as I remembered. Ran my whole system on present specs(sig) only the cpu was O.C.'ed @4400. 1. Research convinced me that my specs didn't require that, so cpu speed is then set @ 3800 via xmp memory setting (recommended by ASUS) but left C-States, Speedstep and TurboBoost off. seemed better but something still niggling. stopped worrying about for a while. THEN I SAW Doktor Avalanche's post... 2.Did some more research just make sure I wouldn't hurt my system, decided I HAVE to try this. First thing I did was undo all my personal settings on the motherboard, set EVERYTHING to DEFAULT. Made sure HPET set to ENABLED in the bios. I wanted no variables to color my opinion so I did the same with the cpu, everything DEFAULT. (Of course, every fan alert went off on reboot and had to be reset.  ) So now it's time for the entry to be set... followed the Dok's procedure and I have to say... WHEN YOU'RE RIGHT YOU'RE RIGHT. DPC Checker came back with about a 30% INCREASE in latency... but I noticed a PRONOUNCED INPROVEMENT in the tightness of midi AND audio; puzzling. Still more research, however, indicated that this is due to the increased resolutionof the HPET, and it's enhanced ability to catch and report spikes (already there, DPC Checker didn't catch them). CONCLUSIONS: My desktop's up in 8 seconds, down from 28. ALL my music related apps are snappier, even look-ahead plugins have ceased to glitch Sonar's engine, and best of all; The FEEL has returned to my tunes. Thank you, Doktor Avalanche. Mel
post edited by OldTimerNewComer - 2015/06/20 05:08:05
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Rob[at]Sound-Rehab
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Re: Not working
2015/06/22 18:54:54
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Doesn't look like this works for me ...
I had pretty good performance and stability @ low buffer settings and 96 kHz up to Everett, but in the past 2 weeks I suffer from repeated random like crashes (only system changes were Everett & 4 NI updates of which I only have Kontakt in the project) ...
So I went through the whole exercise ... BIOS update, chipset drivers, etc. win 7 64 bit updates, then disabled speed stepping and the moderate overclocking I had in place ... no real change in stability, I do still get crashes when using the low buffer settings I used to use (128 @ 96 kHz) ... it even crashes at 192 samples, strangely this happens long before it gets even close to drop-outs from heavy system load ...
"bcdedit /set useplatformclock true" causes crashes to happen more frequently, sometimes even when hitting play after just booting and loading the project ... so I disabled again
BTW, LatencyMon reports super low latency in either case ...
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jb101
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Re: Not working
2015/06/22 19:11:46
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I, personally, would stay away from this type of "tweak".
Unless you understand the Windows OS inside out, and are very "tech-savvy(?)", then leave well alone.
Many "Power Users" on here seem to get on well without the need for this type of "optimisation", beyond disabling wifi and "Power" settings.
I have seen more people run into serious problems with "tweaks" like this, than I have seen people solve issues.
Unless you understand EXACTLY what you are doing, then leave well alone.
Be aware..
JMHO
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kevinwal
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Re: Not working
2015/06/22 23:34:37
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☄ Helpfulby charlyg 2015/06/23 01:12:53
jb101
I, personally, would stay away from this type of "tweak".
Unless you understand the Windows OS inside out, and are very "tech-savvy(?)", then leave well alone.
Many "Power Users" on here seem to get on well without the need for this type of "optimisation", beyond disabling wifi and "Power" settings.
I have seen more people run into serious problems with "tweaks" like this, than I have seen people solve issues.
Unless you understand EXACTLY what you are doing, then leave well alone.
Be aware..
JMHO
I think this is pretty good advice because Windows is pretty good at choosing the right setting to use. This is one of those deep, murky Windows internals subjects dear to the hearts of uber geeks and I've been trying to determine what the best approach to this is for me. This is my interpretation of what's going on with this setting. I'm sure if I'm too inaccurate a more knowledgeable geek will step in and correct me. To grossly simplify things, when Windows is installed it inspects the hardware for the optimum time keeping mechanism to use for its various and sundry scheduling needs. If the system supports the invariant Time Stamp Counter (TSC) which most newer Intel chips do, Windows will disable the use of HPET, preferring the low overhead and precision of the TSC. This assumes of course that HPET was enabled in BIOS in the first place; if it isn't and the TSC is supported it will use the TSC. If the TSC isn't supported and HPET is, it will use that, otherwise it will use ACPI PM timer. Many BIOS's don't even allow the enabling of HPET these days, a further indication of HPET's growing legacy status. So, what is the guidance on this? Here's my take, YMMV, etc. 1. If HPET was enabled in your BIOS but Windows has it disabled, your system is optimized for the best performance in timekeeping. 2. If your BIOS has no setting for HPET, your machine is probably running the preferred TSC timekeeping unless it is a very old or non-Intel box, and there's no need to change anything (indeed there is nothing to change.) 3. If HPET is disabled in BIOS, you can try this tweak to see if the performance improves, keeping in mind that if your processor is an i5 or i7 of a newer variety, you'll probably not see an improvement. But hey, you might! One last thing; there shouldn't be any danger trying this tweak if you're careful with the typing.
post edited by kevinwal - 2015/06/22 23:49:49
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OldTimerNewComer
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 04:09:01
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jb101
I, personally, would stay away from this type of "tweak".
Unless you understand the Windows OS inside out, and are very "tech-savvy(?)", then leave well alone.
Many "Power Users" on here seem to get on well without the need for this type of "optimisation", beyond disabling wifi and "Power" settings.
I have seen more people run into serious problems with "tweaks" like this, than I have seen people solve issues.
Unless you understand EXACTLY what you are doing, then leave well alone.
Be aware..
JMHO
I will test this and get some bench marks... I am pretty ok with the internals of windows...I think. Built the system I'm on... got several bkup's if I shaft somethin'... I did extensive testing with my I7 2600k and the Asus board in my sig. a couple yrs. ago and the conclusion I came to is that whether a given "tweak" (E.G. O.C'ing) works or not is often system setup and motherboard specific. Given that I am confident that I will not screw up my system(beyond repair*) my general tendency is to try it(the tweak) on a non-critical system, make an assessment regarding whether or not it improves my musical/production experience and remove it if I judge it wanting. * I back up my entire sys. every two weeks. #NO FEAR  Mel
post edited by OldTimerNewComer - 2015/06/23 04:21:04
Asus Sabertooth Z77. OCZ "Stealth" PSU 700w. Core i7 2600k @3.8 Ghz via XMP memory setting. AMD Radeon HD6450 CE 2GB DDR3 video. Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz (32 Gig). Kingston 512 GB SSD(OS/Software). WD 500 GB SATA(data) + 1 TB external. Focusrite Saffire Pro 40(FW)-v3.4. Windows 10 Pro Sonar Platinum Jamaica Plains Update ________________________________________ Ultimately YOU will be the hardest to convince that the Cake is done... Finish it. My Stuff: https://www.reverbnation.com/skeletonkrew9
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kevinwal
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Re: Not working
2015/06/23 10:34:48
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That's the spirit! I found that my best performance is with HPET disabled in the BIOS, but as with the Doctor's results, many find an improvement.
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