P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive?

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yusaius
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2005/02/08 16:14:58 (permalink)

P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive?

I've been a cake user since 1997, and been using P5 since it's release..I just got reasons 2.5, and if P5 2.0 do not stand up to all the advancements of reasons, like on the fly quantizing, cable porting, midi editing, record while sound searching, adv midi mapping, refills, and so on....It will be DOA. right now P5 1.5 does'nt even compare to reasons 2.5 and reason is set to release 3.0 in the near future. I think this next release from cake will be a battle for survival for the p 5. I truley hope the p5 will be able to stand up to reason 3.0 because I'm a cake supporter, but as of now i think the battle is lost in the soft synth market for the cake.....what do you think?
#1

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    Digital Aura
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 16:41:05 (permalink)
    yusaius...did you read the press bulletin!?

    Someone recently posted a link from the REASON forum here...seems there was quite the stir concerning P5 II and its feature list. They were scared! VERY SCARED!

    Im certainly convinced that ABLETON LIVE and REASON will be watching this very closely...and I think they'll be doing a lot of damage control after April!
    #2
    fabadder
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 16:43:09 (permalink)
    I think the fact that you will be able to add audio and can use dxi s and vsts will make it an alternative option that others will find more appealing. I do like Reason, but with all of the cabling it can become a tad complex. It also seems to be a bit of a bear when it comes to getting a good mix (although this is being addressed in 3.0 with the mastering suite). For me, the open environment makes P5 more desirable. I'm also curious to see the new arp function, as this will be able to take any vst or dxi use this handy feature.

    Well, that's my two cents worth, how about the rest of you guys?

    Have a good one!

    Jim Hjelvik

    James H
    #3
    505Alive
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 16:43:58 (permalink)
    as a longtime cakewalk user and former reason user these are two "reasons" i never use Reason anymore:

    vst and dx support for instruments and effects

    no easy way to bring in audio.

    none of this is changing in reason 3. p5 II is even adding audio RECORDING. The new features look awesome. Reason 3 still cannot bring in third party instruments AND it doesn't even have any new instruments to make me want to buy it.

    I think Reason 3 will be dead in the water.

    5

    #####---#####
    #4
    Juan Sanchez
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 17:28:17 (permalink)
    With lots of places blowing out Reason 2.5 in light of 3.0 this is what helped me save my money.

    Project5 Version 2 presents the next stage of Project5's evolution offering the following key enhancements:

    Streamlined user interface
    High performance engine
    Integrated multitrack audio
    Multipad pattern triggering
    Loop reconstruction
    Dynamic arpeggiator
    Multimode sampling synthesizer
    PSYN II subtractive synthesizer
    Much more
    New UI—Project5 Version 2 sports a streamlined user interface with all views and tools integrated to provide the most intuitive workflow possible.

    High Performance Engine—With Version 2, Project5's audio engine has been customized to stand up to the real-time rigors of live performance.

    Integrated Multitrack Audio—multitrack audio recording and editing tools have been intelligently incorporated, providing all the tools you need to take projects from inspiration to completion.

    Multipad Groove Trigger—real-time, per-track pattern triggering pads have been fully integrated into Project5's workspace; drag-drop between song arrangement and Multipad; populate cells with audio clips and MIDI patterns without any disruption to the audio engine; live control via MIDI remote control.

    Loop Reconstruction—per-slice control of pitch, pan, and gain; export new ACID™-format loops.

    Dynamic Arpeggiator—performance-oriented, per-track arpeggiator that allows real-time control of notes and automation parameters; includes hundreds of patterns and classic algorithms.

    Multi-mode Sampling Synthesizer—the first rgc:audio-engineered plug-in to be included in a Cakewalk product (see related rgc:audio acquisition announcement); a robust world-class instrument featuring a versatile engine, graphical modulation section, and internal effects stages. Mix and layer rich tones using up to four voices from quality stereo samples, wave guide synthesis, and analog style synthesis; includes an extensive array of acoustic, electric, and electronic instruments; loops; sound effects; and sound-scapes; heavy on features.

    PSYN II—provides classic analog sounds and evocative new sounds through full-featured subtractive synthesis modeling. New for version 2: drive, delay, and modulation effects settings provide expanded sonic horizons.

    Additional enhancements include: freeze, tap tempo, track inspector view, in-track automation, more.



    Take Care, Juan Sanchez

    Rockin in the free world
    #5
    wrench45us
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 18:50:28 (permalink)


    ok
    worst case scenario
    P5 v2 is DOA

    well, shoot, even at that, looks to me like this update has enough features to keep me busy for years. And how long was that before Reason got an update? Oh I think it was years.

    i'm not worried
    i doubt Cakewalk marketing dept is worried


     


    #6
    pseudonoise
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 18:58:21 (permalink)
    Good question,

    Firstly, I think that the P5 feature set will be well placed to pull ALOT of Sonar users over - that's a good start. Also, the P5 interface will be alot less intimidating, and very attractive, to those just entering the game (Cakewalks best bet IMO) - the fact that it doesn't have a stupid name like fruity loops will help too! (lol).

    In terms of hardcore Reason users, though, I highly doubt that many will be jumping ship. Not that I don't think that P5V2 will be superior to Reason 3.0 (I do), it is just that the majority of Reason's user base have been on this program for 5 years or more.

    Now, if P5 could act as a Rewire host it would be a different story. I didn't see anything in the press release indicating that Rewire host was an option for P5V2, but IMHO that feature alone could double or triple the sales of P5V2. SOOO many Reason users are looking for an affordable Rewire host that supports multi-track recording and VST - yet Sonar and Cubase may still be a bit heavy for their needs.

    Perfect solution - P5V2 (not to mention the wack of new instruments and effect that Reason users will love).

    #7
    techead
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 19:19:34 (permalink)
    Huh? DOA? I don't think so. Project5 is an excellent product with excellent users and a growing market. It is ripe for world domination!
    #8
    mumpcake
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 19:34:01 (permalink)
    In issue 82 of CM there's an interview with the CEO of Propellerhead explaining why Reason has no VST support. He seems to think that setting up VSTs is a hassle.
    #9
    MIDIMONSTER
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 22:21:09 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: techead

    Project5 is an excellent product with excellent users and a growing market. It is ripe for world domination!


    It won't be ripe for world domination untill cakewalk ports it to MAC OS X!

    = )

    then I will be in heaven, and p5 world dominator
    #10
    techead
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 22:37:33 (permalink)
    What is MAC OSX?
    #11
    agincourtdb
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 23:13:13 (permalink)
    Apples are destined to failure, because Oranges are so tasty!

    Seriously. Haven't we had enough of these Live vs. Reason vs. P5. vs. Cubase vs. Sonar vs. Nuendo vs. Fruity vs. Atari 2600 vs. Xbox vs. PS2 vs. Half Life 2 vs. Doom 3 vs. Coke vs. Pepsi vs. Godzilla vs. Mothra discussions?

    They're different tools. Use the one that best suits your stylistic/workflow/technological/spiritual needs and don't worry about the rest of them. Everyone developer a different paradigm and every user has a different approach. I wouldn't touch Reason with a 10 foot pole. The next guy swears by it.

    I'm not trying to flame anyone or troll, I just think this kind of thing is ultimately useless.

    p.s., techead, "Mac OS X" is a supersecret black-budget counter-intelligence agency operating under the cover of a major fast-food chain.


    #12
    mumpcake
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/08 23:52:57 (permalink)
    Seriously. Haven't we had enough of these Live vs. Reason vs. P5. vs. Cubase vs. Sonar vs. Nuendo vs. Fruity vs. Atari 2600 vs. Xbox vs. PS2 vs. Half Life 2 vs. Doom 3 vs. Coke vs. Pepsi vs. Godzilla vs. Mothra discussions?


    Godzilla won. But you forgot to add Rhino vs Sytrus.
    #13
    axe2grind
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 04:21:40 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: pseudonoise

    In terms of hardcore Reason users, though, I highly doubt that many will be jumping ship. Not that I don't think that P5V2 will be superior to Reason 3.0 (I do), it is just that the majority of Reason's user base have been on this program for 5 years or more.



    I have been a long time Reason user from v1.0 and although I have been an avid Reason user and have made many tunes with it, I have now jumped ship to Project 5 (Only just bought it - still waiting for it to be delivered!). After playing with the demo version for a while, I thought the workflow in P5 is much easier and quicker to write music with than Reason. I love the pre-count in P5 which Reason does not do, and this is important to me when recording keyboard parts and improvising.
    Reason V3 does look cool with the Combinator but building up the rack started to get on my nerves, I just wanted to dialup an instrument with FX and start writing. The track patches in 1.5 are a god send for this and being an open system I can just pick and choose what Virtual instruments or FX I want and use them without having to rewire or crap like that and you can also layer and split instruments and record in multiple tracks which is a big big bonus for me. P5 V2 made me take the plunge (seeing as its a free update for new users) and it looks fantastic, exactly what I've wanted in workstation software. Importing audio and recording it in V2 is something which a lot of Reason users will be tempted by.
    I think its cakewalk all the way now....I'm just glad I jumped back on the PC wagon and sold the apple....
    post edited by axe2grind - 2005/02/09 04:54:39
    #14
    wrench45us
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 07:51:45 (permalink)

    hey, Aggie's back online
    and commiting to the peace process

    sytrus vs. rhino is always much more entertaining

    Ford vs. Chevy vs. Mopar
    Intel vs. AMD

    Carnivale or Mardi Gras



     


    #15
    Kegerator
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 08:24:36 (permalink)
    There all different tools it's just how you use them


    Eagles vs Patriots.................oh never mind, we already know the out come to that

    Beer is the cause and solution to all of life's problem's


    #16
    techead
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 08:27:27 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: agincourtdb

    p.s., techead, "Mac OS X" is a supersecret black-budget counter-intelligence agency operating under the cover of a major fast-food chain.

    Hey, that's exactly what I got when I "Googled" it!
    #17
    agincourtdb
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 10:30:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: wrench45us


    hey, Aggie's back online
    and commiting to the peace process




    Peace, through superior firepower.

    chicken vs. egg.
    less filling vs. tastes great.
    blue state vs. red state.
    shirts vs. skins.

    :-)


    #18
    Summer2000
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 11:45:14 (permalink)
    All I have to say in this matter is that P5 lacks auto quantizing. And for this major flaw alone it could never replace Live 4 or Reason 2.5 as my main tool in my setup. I hear that this is the case with the upcoming P5 2 version as well. So I won't be jumping ship to the Cakewalk camp anytime soon.

    Now if Cakewalk should get with the program and add auto quantizing (because so many users have petitioned for it) then I may look into it and see what P5 2 really has to offer. Till then I'm rocking with my MPC synced with Live and Reason, and my favorite VST plugins
    #19
    epytryga
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 11:57:04 (permalink)
    hmm...auto quantize wouldn't make a hill of beans difference to me....I practice the part until I can play it properly....and then record it...my "auto quantize" is practice :)

    Kind Regards:
    Eric

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    #20
    wrench45us
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 12:08:26 (permalink)

    re: quanize
    it's not like it can't be done
    it just can't be done 'on the fly'

    now that all my complaints are being addressed it's funny how annoying these 'other' complaints are. i'm sue it would be different if auto-quantize was essential to the way i worked.

    so here's the list of disappointments as I recall them:
    1) no auto quantize
    2) P5 will not function as a Rewire Host
    3) P5 will not be ported to Mac (OS X (or OS 9))

    so what else should we do till April?


     


    #21
    subgeek
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 12:41:44 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: wrench45us

    Carnivale or Mardi Gras



    these are both wrong. choose Fasching.
    #22
    LoRez
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 12:59:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: axe2grind

    ORIGINAL: pseudonoise

    In terms of hardcore Reason users, though, I highly doubt that many will be jumping ship. Not that I don't think that P5V2 will be superior to Reason 3.0 (I do), it is just that the majority of Reason's user base have been on this program for 5 years or more.



    I have been a long time Reason user from v1.0 and although I have been an avid Reason user and have made many tunes with it, I have now jumped ship to Project 5 (Only just bought it - still waiting for it to be delivered!). After playing with the demo version for a while, I thought the workflow in P5 is much easier and quicker to write music with than Reason. I love the pre-count in P5 which Reason does not do, and this is important to me when recording keyboard parts and improvising.
    Reason V3 does look cool with the Combinator but building up the rack started to get on my nerves, I just wanted to dialup an instrument with FX and start writing. The track patches in 1.5 are a god send for this and being an open system I can just pick and choose what Virtual instruments or FX I want and use them without having to rewire or crap like that and you can also layer and split instruments and record in multiple tracks which is a big big bonus for me. P5 V2 made me take the plunge (seeing as its a free update for new users) and it looks fantastic, exactly what I've wanted in workstation software. Importing audio and recording it in V2 is something which a lot of Reason users will be tempted by.
    I think its cakewalk all the way now....I'm just glad I jumped back on the PC wagon and sold the apple....



    Well said...these are all very important features and workflow items for me as well.

    "...like a fawn, mating with a baboon with buffalo wings."
    #23
    techead
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 13:28:55 (permalink)
    Auto-Quantize is one of the weaknesses in the competing applications. Once a track is quantized the data timing is forever lost.

    With Project5 you use an add-in MIDI FX to perform realtime quantization during playback. This gives the appearance of "auto-quantization" from the other applications' features WITHOUT destroying the true MIDI timing recorded in the track in Project5. Very much a plus in my workflow--I can tweak quantization all I want even after I have saved and exited the application and brought it back up a year later. Just re-edit the project and adjust the Quantize MIDI FX values.
    #24
    Joeybear
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 13:34:44 (permalink)
    I sure as heck hope that P5 survives. I just bought it. As a matter of fact, I just missed the "free upgrade window", because I bought it a couple of weeks ago.
    post edited by Joeybear - 2005/02/09 13:42:42
    #25
    three_eyed_otter
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/09 14:26:51 (permalink)
    i think Reason should win just because they have t-shirts. i mean, who in the world would spends all kinds of marketing money and not do t-shirts. i mean, fuscia is in and chicks look hot in fuscia and man a chick in fuscia P5 T..............oh somebody stop her i mean, me.
    so all in all, reason wins they've got t-shirts.......................see you guys later i'm whippin' out the plastic and upgrading to Sonar 4.

    no offence but "auto-quantizing" is like the old metronome whiners in the Sonar forum.

    have a good one
    3Eo
    #26
    rileyrooden
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/10 10:34:08 (permalink)
    Actually, I think if anything is in danger of becomming "DOA" I'd cast my vote on Reason 3. IMHO it seems the only significant thing added is the Combinator. To me it really seems this should be like a Reason 2.5.1 update or something rather than a whole new version. Ah well, guess those T-shirts aren't doing quite as well as they thought and it was time for some revenue from a new release... who knows...
    Reason 2.5 is a great tool.. although I use it only as a rewire device for Malstrom.. Needless to say, I won't be shellin' out the dough for version 3.
    #27
    collieweed
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/13 14:01:11 (permalink)
    p5 1.5 is the hands down clear winner. in the article i wrote almost a year ago where i compared p5 1.0 to reason 2.5 p5 was the winner. Now that p5 1.5 is out it clearly has an enormous lead. The big reason why???/ Its open to third party plugins.
    VST instruments such as Native Instruments REAKTOR have sounds that blow away anything reason has to offer and you cant import VST's. So your stuck using there lowbudget effects, synths etc. You could run reason via rewire but than you might as well use p5 as it is much simpler and faster.
    #28
    SuperGreenX
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/16 00:41:50 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: axe2grind
    Reason V3 does look cool with the Combinator but building up the rack started to get on my nerves, I just wanted to dialup an instrument with FX and start writing. The track patches in 1.5 are a god send for this and being an open system I can just pick and choose what Virtual instruments or FX I want and use them without having to rewire or crap like that


    Well, one of the major functions of the combinator is setting up patches just like you described. You can save a patch of an instrument with a bunch of effects chained on, and any combination of machines in there. It also does other sweet stuff.

    I am a Reason user and I'm interested in P5 simply because its pretty darn cheap, especially with the free 2.0 upgrade deal. I read on here that P5 is not a Rewire host. Is this true? For some reason, before I was assuming that it was. That makes me much less interested. I have Sonar 3.0, but I'd rather not be running 3 programs at once.

    Also, quick question: I can find P5 1.5 for quite cheap at an academic discount. Is that still elligable for the free 2.0 upgrade?


    #29
    DelvarWorld
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    RE: P5 Or reasons.2.5, Can P5 2.0 Survive? 2005/02/16 01:19:34 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: SuperGreenX
    Well, one of the major functions of the combinator is setting up patches just like you described. You can save a patch of an instrument with a bunch of effects chained on, and any combination of machines in there. It also does other sweet stuff.

    Well, that's exactly his problem, and mine as well. You have to go through a far more complicated process to achieve a chain of effects and instruments in Reason than you do in P5, and saving the file automatically saves what you've done. I like P5 because I can just open the program, start from scratch, click five times and instantly have a limitless number of instruments to work with. I don't have to worry about any of this odd back-panel wiring.

    But the reason I'll never switch over to Reason is no VST support, like everyone's said. I don't want to be limited to the synths and effects Reason offers, I want to be able to use third party developer software with my music. If I couldn't load up my shiney new synth made by whoever, I'd be a very, very sad Panda.
    #30
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