Helpful ReplySonar/Sound Forge Users questions

I downloaded the demo version for Sound Forge, and it seems to be a very good program, but could some of you guys who use both point out exactly what you use SF for, and how you integrate it into your workflow.

What special tools do SF have that differentiate it from Sonar as a Mastering tool?

I really would like a program (that isn't as hard as Quantum Physics) that I can do a pretty decent job of Mastering on.

Kevin,
I've just added Sound Forge to my arsenal. I guess I felt that Sonar was just a little short of features when It came to mastering the audio files. Its great for pulling all the audio components of a production together and even editing audio on a large scale just some finer points missing.
Then of course with Sound Forge you get a whole slew of extra VST's (that you can use in Sonar) and then there's CD Architect (worth the price alone for this).
Sorry if my post sounds a bit vague...I'm only now just starting to use SF myself, so I'm no authority. The integration with Soanr is pretty tight with no need to export and import files from one to the other.

It's apples, and oranges, really!
Soundforge is far beyond Sonar in Mastering features, but if you have both, a lot of the effects, compressors, and other features available in Soundforge, become available to you in sonar, as Audio Effects.
I record, and mixdown, in Sonar, and Master in Soundforge, with some help from Ozone 3.
I highly recommend this combination.
Killer!

The two main things I use it for is clip editing and mastering. For example if I want to take some pick clicks out of an acuostic guitar track or a glitch out of a composite edit (after the bounce) I can just select the clip and select Sound Forge from the tools menu. The clip will open in SoundForge I can use the pencil, smooth/enhance process, volume adjust, even pitch bend to edit a selection in the clip. When I save and exit SoundForge Sonar will ask if I want to import the new version to replace the clip I have and I click Yes, Sonar will rebuild the wavform and it's done.

Here is the cool part, If I make a selection in the clip inside Sonar when I open the clip in SoundForge the same selection is in SoundForge and it's zoomed in and centered in right to that spot !! It's magic.

I also use SoundForge when I need a plugin to be applied to just a selection within a clip. For example I might need Autotune to fix one word or phrase but leave the rest of the clip alone. So I can open the clip in SoundForge and apply Autotune to that section. You can even use Acoustic Mirror to process a clip from mono to stereo with room simulation and when it returns to Sonar it automatically converts to a stereo track. SoundForge integrates with Sonar so well I almost forget they are different programs.

For mastering I use the hard limit and normalize some to maximize loudness without compression, trim the ends and perfect the fade at the end of the song, and to do my resample and bit reduction with dither at the very last.

SoundForge also reads and writes almost every file format ever made even ones from antique computers that are no longer in use and other operating systems. It's a real roseta stone. Oh, and it's a loop editor also, after all Acid is from the same vendor.

I've been using SoundForge since version 2 a very long time ago before anyone dreamed of doing multi-track on a computer I can't imagine being without it now.

SoundForge replaced my DAT machine years ago and Sonar replaced my ADAT decks... and almost everything in my rack except my peramps and headphone amp.

I DEFINITLY AGREE WITH BOTH POSTS!! THE CD ARCHITECT IS A GREAT PROGRAM, INDISPENSABLE FOR ME. i HAVE SPE 4, SF 8, AND OZONE ISOTOPE. THE OZONE IS A KILLER MASTERING SUITE WHEN USED PROPERLY.

RIGHT ON, FRANK!!! I WATCH FOR YOUR POSTS AND LEARN A LOT FROM YOU. THANKS!!!! I'M IN THE DALLS AREA, BY THE WAY.

I AM LOOKING AT UPGRADING FROM PE4 TO PE5. I SAW WHERE IT REQUIRES WINDOWS XP 64. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND OUT WHAT MINE IS??? I HAVE WINDOWS XP HOME SERV. PACK 2, 2002. ANY HELP DEFINITLY APPRECIATED.

ORIGINAL: mewsician2

It's apples, and oranges, really!
Soundforge is far beyond Sonar in Mastering features, but if you have both, a lot of the effects, compressors, and other features available in Soundforge, become available to you in sonar, as Audio Effects.
I record, and mixdown, in Sonar, and Master in Soundforge, with some help from Ozone 3.
I highly recommend this combination.
Killer!

Almost exactly my workflow as well - here are some of my reasons to have both..
#1 Sample Rate and Word Length reduction in batch mode - (e.g. process thirty 24/48k files down to 16/44.1 while I'm doing something else and then make an .mp3 copy of the original files as well - all in batch mode
#2 I can create my own impulse files for convolution in Sound Forge and use those files in Acoustic Mirror
#3 When I am preparing a radio broadcast it allows me to nail the exact time of a project within 22 minute / 15 minute or any interval section for insertion
#4 I typically do very large long classical recordings for Broadcast and CD - Sound Forge allows me to work and regionalize the entire project much more efficiently than Sonar - and then export directly to CD Architect 5.2 for Red Book authoring
#5 I actually do most of my edits in Sonar with the rare exception that I have to edit at the multi-sample level
#6 I love Sound Forge's statistics - this allows me comprehensive or section RMS vs. Peak analysis
#7 I typically do all of my intro - outro edit with room tone insertion in Sound Forge - since I can see at the resolution of a frame what and where I am
#8 I love Sound Forge's selection duration reading - this is very useful when I am preparing ADR or other audio for spotting or at least getting close to the duration mark when inserting audio into a Sonar Project from Sound Forge
#9 Noise Reduction - I have continued to own my original Sonic Foundry Noise Reduction license and use that in conjunction with some of the other new Sony processess to clean up audio in Sound Forge before I use it in Post Production in Sonar
#10 Clip and Peak detection and restoration - much like number nine above I find the interpolated points correcting squared wave forms I received from some folks to be a life saver - again I do this in Sound Forge and then just pop the data in Sonar - I love that Sound Forge shows up as a tool in my Sonar Menu

#11 (finally!) I don't have a CD player in the Studio so I use Sound Forge's extract from CD to listen to CD's when clients bring me something to listen to - I dont' like Windows Media Hater and SF allows me to show a 'real' RTA while listening instead of a ABBA light show...

-D


Oh I forgot one... I still love radio - FM / AM /Shortwave / XM and so on - I love Sound Forge 7 and 8's ability to work like a VCR and record from an audio source at a specific time and then shut down - I just wish I could edit the input source for each timed event.... oh well

-D

ORIGINAL: chaplainbob

RIGHT ON, FRANK!!! I WATCH FOR YOUR POSTS AND LEARN A LOT FROM YOU. THANKS!!!! I'M IN THE DALLS AREA, BY THE WAY.

I AM LOOKING AT UPGRADING FROM PE4 TO PE5. I SAW WHERE IT REQUIRES WINDOWS XP 64. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FIND OUT WHAT MINE IS??? I HAVE WINDOWS XP HOME SERV. PACK 2, 2002. ANY HELP DEFINITLY APPRECIATED.

First turn off the caps lock, you are shouting. And no, PE5 does not require any special version of XP. There is a special version of the software included that will work on the new 64bit OS but it is in no way required. Don't worry about 64bit for now, it's going to be a while before all the sound card drivers and other tools are 64bit. Maybe by the time PE6 or PE7 is out it will be time to make the jump.

What you have will work perfect.

There is just too many uses for Sound Forge to even cover here... we would be typing for a week..

ORIGINAL: ohhey

There is just too many uses for Sound Forge to even cover here... we would be typing for a week..

I just wish I could 'natively' use the mouse scroll in Sonar to zoom in/out.

-D

ORIGINAL: DonM

ORIGINAL: ohhey

There is just too many uses for Sound Forge to even cover here... we would be typing for a week..

I just wish I could 'natively' use the mouse scroll in Sonar to zoom in/out.

-D

Yes SoundForge works like that and the tilt wheel scrolls side to side.. love it.

Sound Forge is one of the most incredible audio editing tools out there. It is as simple to use even for beginners, as it is deep and powerful for even the most demanding and critical professionals.
If I was ever forced to choose only one audio app, it would definitely be Sound Forge
It will also run perfectly on even the most modest computers, happily recording stereo (or mono) audio files, never skipping a beat until you run out of hard drive space.
That could be sooner than you think too, because Sound Forge automatically makes a “recovery” version of what’s loaded or recorded into it so you will lose nothing in the event of a crash or power failure.
Until you hit the “save” button, you will have two copies, one in memory and one in a temp audio data file folder.
I LOVE Sound Forge for anything from recording live music like band practices, to using it’s “Remote Record” function which is great for making quick and easy real-time recordings of Sonar multi track sessions where DXi’s are running. Much quicker than bouncing them down to audio tracks for quick reference mixes, and saves lots of hard drive space.
Sound Forge 8 is now capable of supporting and recording at 32 bit and Remote Record, records exactly what you hear from your monitors.

I could write a book on the power and usefulness and power of the “Acoustic Mirror” plug in alone, the poor man’s convolution reverb.
Convolution Reverb plug ins typically cost 2x to 3x more than a full version of Sound Forge, Acoustic Mirror is only one of the many useful plug ins included for sound editing and mastering, it hooks up to and shares all but the most specialized proprietary 3rd party plug ins in both DX and VST.
Not only does Sony offer a massive library 100’s of free “impulses” of room sounds for Acoustic Mirror anywhere from bathrooms, train stations, to state of the art concert halls, they have a very comprehensive collection of microphone impulses ranging from vintage to modern hybrids that can realistically turn an inexpensive Shure SM 57 into a KSM- 32 large diaphragm condenser or even the sound of a Telefunkin U-47 with incredible accuracy.
They also offer a wide range of very unnatural sound impulses like analog synthesizer sounds that can be applied to audio files as an effects plug in, such as a vintage Roland Juno 106 mixed and applied to the human voice, a MUST have for sound shapers.
And as an added bonus, you can even record and create your own impulses of your favorite room sounds to create and expand on reverbs, guitar amp simulations, to the radical like food processor or skill saw impulses.

Other very cool functions and goodies exclusive to Sound Forge 8.

1. Wave Hammer; mastering grade compressor/limiter/expander
2. Extensive support for reading and saving audio and video formats, which can all be customized and saved as user definable presets.
3. Version 8 is now capable of converting animated .gif files and .swr (flash movies) into standard video formats to be used in video editing apps. i.e. Sony Vegas, Pinnacle Liquid, Adobe Premier, etc.
4. Intergraded batch converter; can run in the background and be set to task to convert and render multiple formatting and cross platforming tasks at once.
5. CD Architect 5.2; Red Book CD authoring for dummies. It’ll actually warn you ahead of time before burning if and what mistakes you have made.
This is by no means a “lite” version of professional CD authoring software. In fact it is more powerful than the stand alone version of CD-A 5.0 I bought a few years back, as it now supports CD text editing.
It makes perfect Red Book spec CD image files for glass mastering, and perfect Red Book spec CDR’s you can burn yourself that sound exactly the way YOU authored them to. (Which may or may not be a good thing, hee, hee.) Most artists aren’t very good at mastering their own work.

I am a Sonar/SoundForge user as well.

SoundForge is great for all of the reasons listed above and more.

I didn't see it mentioned, but the Batch Convertor (which you used to have to pay for) is now free in SF. You can process as many audio files as you need to (add volume changes, effects, and even change formats like mp3 to quicktime, etc...) all at once.

If you are delivering products for the web it saves a ton of time. Imagine taking 3 or 4 album projects and delivering mp3, quicktime and wma files of each track in minutes!

CD Archetect is great. The NoiseReduction plug is also nice. There is now full VST support in SF (HELLO CAKEWALK!).

A lot of what you do in SF you can do in Sonar (and some of it you can't) but there are some tasks that are just so much easier in SF then they are in Sonar. If you edit clips for samples, etc... it will save you tons of time.

Someone compared Sonar to an ADAT and SF as a DAT and I think that's a pretty realistic comparision.

When mastering a track, I find SF's interface to be much easier to work with becasue it's built for working on a two track mix.

Also check out Steinberg's WAVELAB

Another longtime SONAR/Sound Forge user here, as well. I was quite pleased to find out that I could preview SONAR's 64-bit(IEEE Float) stereo wave file renders, directly from the Explorer view, in SF and then simply drag & drop them straight into the SF workspace, as 64-bit files. Where you can do further analysis & editing. You can also bit-convert to & from 64-bit.

I too have been using sonar and sound forge together for years. There's just so many things sound forge does that are way beyond the editing capabilities of sonar.

I really think that this is why Adobe bought out Cool Edit Pro, so that they could have a program that could do multitracking in one window, editing in a window, and create CD's in a window....all in one program. they figure they can capture the users of Sonar & SoundForge together. But, having used Audition 1.5........they fall far far short of reaching that goal.

I will continue to consider Sonar 5 and Sound Forge 8 with CD Archetecture to be the 3 programs I can't do without in my studio. Even if I have to keep buying them seperately.

Wow, thanks Bill, that's goods new to me because I haven't upgraded to Sonar 5 PE yet. I have too many collaboration projects going on, and have always been busy and reluctant to install new apps until a patch or two have been released.
Nobody issues backwards compatible apps, so until all my jam buds catch up or I get a can't refuse deal to upgrade, I may skip over a version or two.
I also have and used the Waves Diamond Bundle plug in suite with a full version of the IR-1 convolution reverb, so the only real usable advantage to Sonar 5 PE would be the Roland V Vocal plug in.
I'm still dragging my feet building a 64 bit computer because there isn't a stable 64 bit OS, I have my eye on an A-Bit AMD duel core MOBO combo which was just reduced to around $500, so I'm starting to cave in.
Windows 2000 Pro can be configured to run duel core CPU's as two seperate 32 bit CPU's on one MOBO, which is quite interesting all in itself being able to process with both core sides perculating away at over 2 g/hz.
I really am quite happy with the sonic over kill of a 32 bit sound engine.
Sometimes I think I'm the only one left who is still happy with a great mix at 16/44.1 CD sound quality.
Not always impressed with ultra high bit sound quality, I am ultimately impressed with good sounding low bit streams for Internet content. I don’t believe anything compares to Sound Forge for that task.
Please check out this example, a very dial up friendly 48 k/bs stream http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=528434&t=4882
This sounds shockingly close to the original .wav and is a VERY skinny little .wma.
In all fairness I feel it is also important to note that the Waves Q-10 Paragraphic 10 band mastering EQ was also used. With a bit more work and TLC, this sound Q can be achieved with Sound Forge’s plug ins, the Q-10 is my favorite.


I was using Wavelab for quite a while for video surround sound mixing and editing and found it to be very good at multi channel tasks though a tad less powerful and cumbersome than Sound Forge for editing standard mono and stereo files.
This is mainly because Sound Forge uses a standard Windows interface, and Wavelab does not which creates a higher learning curve all in itself.
However, that is the only complaint I have with Wavelab, which is indeed an excellent app. well worth trying.
The only reasons I no longer use it are I also use Sony Vegas 6 + DVD Architect which has unlimited video and audio track support, and combined Sonar 4 PE’s support for surround sound mixing, Wavelab just takes up hard drive space.

Interesting to note, at the same time when Sony bought Sonic Foundry, their multi media nemesis Pinnacle appropriated Steinberg.
Shortly after between my jump from Sonic Foundry Vegas 4 to Sony Vegas 6, I lost support for direct input my PCI Pinnacle capture card. It refuses to hook up.
Not a very big deal just a strange coincidence. Vegas is an excellent and very powerful video mixing and editing app and typically not used for capturing.
I really love the support and integration Cakewalk and Sony software have for and with each other, and ultimately delighted that Sonar supports Edirol and Roland as much as to create the TSS-1.
I’ve always used Roland and had studied and learned Midi sequencing on the Roland MC-500 in the mid 80’s, and still have and use it today on occasion.

Which brings to mind another favorite unmentioned use for Sound Forge. “MIDI SYNC”!
Hard to believe I forgot to mention that. Not only is that the quickest and easiest way to turn Midi tracks into ACIDâ„¢ audio loops, you have full hands on control over CC parameter and PG if you like as Sound Forge records your Midi tracks into sample accurate audio tracks based on the tempo of the MIDI time clock. It does SEMPTE too..
Making ACID™ Loops doesn’t get any easier than that, not even with ACID Pro.


Here is a comparison test for anyone interested http://www.computervideo.net/nov04-5.html slightly out dated between the current Wavelab 5 and older Sound Forge 7, but still informative.

I too use sonar and sound forge. mix in sonar. master in sound forge. The statistics tool in sound forge has made mastering fast and enjoyable. RMS all the way. I've used sound forge to clean up old sample files that were ridden with glitches, pops, clicks, magnetic interference by redrawing parts of the waveform that contain errors. I used to do this with the DT-100 drawing tablet with stylus pen on my Roland S-50 back in the late 80s so having a drawing tool for such occasions is cool and nostalgic all at the same time.

I know from the MPC in your profile and other threads that you do hip hop.

NOTHING is faster for ripping a song off a CD and slicing out the samples than SoundForge. And there are 'batch convert' features which are enormously useful, too.

Do any of you use Scott Garrigus's book Sound Forge 8 Power? I just bought it to look through before I actually buy the program. Is it a good reference/instructional tool for SF?

ORIGINAL: kb420
Do any of you use Scott Garrigus's book Sound Forge 8 Power? I just bought it to look through before I actually buy the program. Is it a good reference/instructional tool for SF?

I bought his Sound Forge 5 Power book, back in 2001, when I first purchased SF 5.0. It was very helpful for me when I first starting using Sound Forge. I am not familiar with his latest SF8 though. When I later upgraded to SF7, I bought a (2) DVD disk set, with (4) hours of video tutorial's, by Jeffery Fisher. I actually got more out of it than the SF Power book. For me, I like being able to see and hear how something is done than just reading about it. I seem to retain it better. Anyway, they are blowing them out, at a reduced price, since SF8 came out. But all of the material, even though it is geared toward SF7 is relevant to SF8.

Sound Forge: Professional Power Tools for Editing Audio

ORIGINAL: Billy Buck

ORIGINAL: kb420
Do any of you use Scott Garrigus's book Sound Forge 8 Power? I just bought it to look through before I actually buy the program. Is it a good reference/instructional tool for SF?

I bought his Sound Forge 5 Power book, back in 2001, when I first purchased SF 5.0. It was very helpful for me when I first starting using Sound Forge. I am not familiar with his latest SF8 though. When I later upgraded to SF7, I bought a (2) DVD disk set, with (4) hours of video tutorial's, by Jeffery Fisher. I actually got more out of it than the SF Power book. For me, I like being able to see and hear how something is done than just reading about it. I seem to retain it better. Anyway, they are blowing them out, at a reduced price, since SF8 came out. But all of the material, even though it is geared toward SF7 is relevant to SF8.

Sound Forge: Professional Power Tools for Editing Audio

Does it cover the integration of SF as an editor for Sonar? Details on how it exports and imports back to Sonar?

I bought SF way back and I did not spend the time to figure it out. It did not come with a printed manual and frankly I was offended. But I think the time has come for me to catch up with everyone and learn it.

Thanks for any help

Greg:

I've posted to a bunch of threads on this subject - SF is the tool I know - I get a lot done with it very quickly and it is the stereo tool I use to teach in my Sound Design class. Of all of the software I use professionally - it is the most flakey - today I was preparing examples of dither and noise shaping SF hung seven times on a very very stable Dell Optiplex 270. I run Premire, Sonar, Photshop and tons of other software packages on this Dell - the only two programs that have regular problems are CD Architect and Sound Forge - I guess I've just grown to accept the problems - here's one of my favorites that seems linked to VRAM and 24 bit files longer than 10 minutes in SF - If I open a 24bit file that is longer that 600 seconds and scroll out the max (not IN to max but OUT to max) the wave form dissapears in the data display - it looks like a blank file - the data plays fine - but the data window is blank - the data window eventually shows up if I open and close some apps and just jostle VRAM around a bit - weird work around but I've had tons of trouble with these Sony products - I just wish I ddin't know them so well.

-D

You can download a .pdf file of the user’s manual for Sound Forge at the Sony Media updates site.
You can get there by opening SF Click on Help > Sony on the Web> Latest updates.
Once there click on the version of Sound Forge you are using and the manual will be listed as a download.

To edit a track in Sonar with Sound Forge, click on the track to select it. Hit the “Tools” button on Sonar’s tool bar, than select Sound Forge.
Sonar will open Sound Forge and export the track as a .wav into it for editing.
As soon as you hit “save” in Sound Forge it will apply your edit changes directly to the original tracks file in Sonar audio data folder.
Saving in Sound Forge as opposed to Sonar clears system memory as well as the mirrored “Recovery” back up file Sound Forge creates in the event of a computer freeze or crash.

By default Sound Forge clears the Undo history as soon as you hit ‘save’.
To avoid permanent or destructive editing to the sound file, it’s very important to configure Sound Forge to allow “Undos” past saving.
You cannot undo any edit changes made in Sound Forge from Sonar, but you can by sending the track back to Sound Forge.
To do this, open Sound Forge click on “Options” on the tool bar and choose Preferences. The General tab should be selected. Check the box for “Allow Undo past Save”.
This will force Sound Forge to keep the undo history in meta data so if for some reason you don’t like your editing later on down the road you can always bring the sound file back to it’s original state.

ORIGINAL: DonM

Greg:

I've posted to a bunch of threads on this subject - SF is the tool I know - I get a lot done with it very quickly and it is the stereo tool I use to teach in my Sound Design class. Of all of the software I use professionally - it is the most flakey - today I was preparing examples of dither and noise shaping SF hung seven times on a very very stable Dell Optiplex 270. I run Premire, Sonar, Photshop and tons of other software packages on this Dell - the only two programs that have regular problems are CD Architect and Sound Forge - I guess I've just grown to accept the problems - here's one of my favorites that seems linked to VRAM and 24 bit files longer than 10 minutes in SF - If I open a 24bit file that is longer that 600 seconds and scroll out the max (not IN to max but OUT to max) the wave form dissapears in the data display - it looks like a blank file - the data plays fine - but the data window is blank - the data window eventually shows up if I open and close some apps and just jostle VRAM around a bit - weird work around but I've had tons of trouble with these Sony products - I just wish I ddin't know them so well.

-D

WOW, that's a little discenrning. How is their tech support?

WOW, that's a little discenrning. How is their tech support?

Recently I had a big problem with CDA on my main workstation - it would not perform resampling on 48kHz files (my minimum standard) - After ruining a dozen good media - I emailed them - their response took two weeks - I've been using 16/44.1 into CDA ever since - this hurts my workflow efficiency and requires me to create extra copies of tracks which can be very annoying but the condition exists on both of my workstations so I convinced I don't have time to try to solve their problems.

I have been a registered upgrading user since SF 4.5 (now at 8.0b) I don't find their forums helpful at all and the tech support has never suggested anything other than a reinstall.

CDA like sound forge has some really nice features - I've just found them to be very buggy.
-D

Don,
The only times I have seen or heard of that happening with Sony apps was when they were installed in a directory behind another partition other than “C” drive, or when someone tried to hide .SKF by Windows configuration.
By doing so any number of problems can occur, from very strange to mild, stability suffers in some way.
I know how they can clutter up a folder, but the .SKF files contain peak data for the sound files and must be in the same folder as the sound file for smooth operation.
It’s actually safer to delete .SKF than to hide or move them out of the same folder. That will only cause SF to rebuild them upon loading and of course slowing loading time down, but they will be back again.

Whether or not if this is your case or situation, something had corrupted your Sony apps, and I would strongly recommend completely uninstalling them, run defrag, than reinstalling.
Don’t bother choosing the repair tool the uninstaller will offer you, it won’t work for problems like this.

I had a strange corruption problem with Sound Forge’s plug in preset manager a while back after installing an early Adobe version of Cool Edit Pro (Audition I think?) to try out, I ended up having to reinstall both Sound Forge and ACID Pro, than all worked fine until I uninstalled the Cool Edit Pro! Grrrr, I ended up having to reinstall both Sound Forge and ACID Pro AGAIN!!
Could be Adobe and Sony don’t play well together on the same system?

I don't find their forums helpful at all and the tech support has never suggested anything other than a reinstall.

Yeah, it always wasn't this way until the past year or so. I use to help out Sound Forge users with a lot of tech support questions, but they decided to ban me when I expressed my disappointment for the latest Vegas release on the audio side features. Well I shouldn't say "They", really one person in particular at Sony. I think you should write him and tell him your viewpoint of their forums now. Contact: Dave.Hill_AT_sonyconnect.com. A lot of the more fluent users of the apps got upset by this move, and now most of us hang out at my newly created forum. Even some of the more knowledgable Sony developers post there too. The new Sound Forge forums are over here: www.crossface-forums.net. I coined the Sony forums, "Goose_egg-forums.com", since most ot the technical questions in using the apps from users, have ZERO replies to them now. Thankfully, Cakewalk has a great guy like Ron Kuper who seems pretty focused on customer relations and seems to be pretty damn intelligent in my book. They have an "anti-Ron" over there at Sony by the name of Dave Hill busy destroying customer relations for them.

ORIGINAL: Steev

You can download a .pdf file of the user’s manual for Sound Forge at the Sony Media updates site.
You can get there by opening SF Click on Help > Sony on the Web> Latest updates.
Once there click on the version of Sound Forge you are using and the manual will be listed as a download.

To edit a track in Sonar with Sound Forge, click on the track to select it. Hit the “Tools” button on Sonar’s tool bar, than select Sound Forge.
Sonar will open Sound Forge and export the track as a .wav into it for editing.
As soon as you hit “save” in Sound Forge it will apply your edit changes directly to the original tracks file in Sonar audio data folder.
Saving in Sound Forge as opposed to Sonar clears system memory as well as the mirrored “Recovery” back up file Sound Forge creates in the event of a computer freeze or crash.

By default Sound Forge clears the Undo history as soon as you hit ‘save’.
To avoid permanent or destructive editing to the sound file, it’s very important to configure Sound Forge to allow “Undos” past saving.
You cannot undo any edit changes made in Sound Forge from Sonar, but you can by sending the track back to Sound Forge.
To do this, open Sound Forge click on “Options” on the tool bar and choose Preferences. The General tab should be selected. Check the box for “Allow Undo past Save”.
This will force Sound Forge to keep the undo history in meta data so if for some reason you don’t like your editing later on down the road you can always bring the sound file back to it’s original state.

thanks about the manual. but my point was that for the money, it seems like they should print the manual instead of PDF. I guess I am a dinasaur.

Anyway, thanks also for the rundown on how it works with Sonar. This helps a lot.

I've posted to a bunch of threads on this subject - SF is the tool I know - I get a lot done with it very quickly and it is the stereo tool I use

thanks for the response, i will search through your posts.

Yes you should absolutely have a user's manual included shipped to you even with a download purchase of Sound Forge as it is such a very deep and powerful sound editor, a new user couldn't possibly understand what and all it can do.
The tech support at Sony is on the bad side of horrible, a down hill slide since Sony took over, that is why I mentioned reinstalling, as that is all you will get out of them anyway. There is a general aura of apathy. Believe me, it’s useless to complain about Dave Hill. Fact of the matter is, sad to say, more times than not they ignore legitimate requests for tech support, and could take weeks to reply with an answer to basic and simple questions.
All the good guys gave up and left, and now you got into to with Dave consider yourself very low on the food chain.
Never really had any dealings with Sony support myself for help, I have read some horror stories in the forums.
I too had been banned from the ACID Planet Music and Video Tech forums several times. I still do help many users of Sound Forge, ACID, and Vegas, though now a days through personal email contact. It’s nearly impossible to communicate any real solutions in the forums without flame wars and political debates, and it gets rather tedious.
I've been a member of ACID Planet for years and have many fans, friends and collaborators there, and there is tons of fun to be had as long as I stay out of the forums where I continuously get in trouble with my sense of humor and ragging on ACID Pro’s laughably horrendous MIDI support, and I use the word ‘support’ very loosely.
I’ve always made my opinion ultimately clear that ACID Pro had topped out with version 4, and if anyone wants to seriously consider a trip into the world of MIDI, stop wasting time with ACID Pro and go directly to Cakewalk, because even the cheapest skinniest Cakewalk MIDI sequencer will beat ACID Pro 5 to death in short order, and that is the God's honest truth.
I don’t believe anything can compete with ACID Pro as a loop based audio sequencer/editor for ease of use and powerful editing, and Sony no longer provides a hard copy user’s manual for that or Vegas either.
I was pretty angry about having to go through a couple ink cartridges printing out the manual for Vegas, which contrary to popular hype is not as easy for beginners as Sony would lead you to believe. I feel it has a steep learning which really requires a hard copy of the manual.
Well, now that the new ACID Pro 6 is about to (maybe) be released shortly, Sony pushed it back another month, which they boast as actually BEING a DAW, I plan on keeping my forum ban permenant, as I could imagine it will ever be as good as Sonar or Cubase, it would be mean of me, not to mention self destructive to even try to compare and argue the point.
My experience and money says the new and vastly improved and totally rebuilt from the ground up ACID Pro 6 audio/MIDI DAW is going to be a barking beta dawg for at least 6 months after it's release. And an expensive one too.
I think it will be cheaper for me to upgrade to Sonar 5 PE, I'm kinda intrigued by that Roland V-Vocal plug in... I'm a hugh fan of Roland.

ORIGINAL: kb420

Do any of you use Scott Garrigus's book Sound Forge 8 Power? I just bought it to look through before I actually buy the program. Is it a good reference/instructional tool for SF?

I bought it 'cause the extremely thin manual that shipped with mine was in Japanese! It's OK. What has been far more valuable to me - 'cause I'm a visual thinker who doesn't like to read - was the seminar DVDs that I found online for $55. They're interactive lessons - awesome.

I just watched a bunch more tonight... I can't imagine not having SF anymore, and I was VERY skeptical about the need for it.

I don’t believe anything can compete with ACID Pro as a loop based audio sequencer/editor for ease of use and powerful editing, and Sony no longer provides a hard copy user’s manual for that or Vegas either.

I thought Acid pro should be compared to Project 5, instead of Sonar. Have you looked at P5?

I haven’t really looked into P5 too closely yet as being I had just moved, money as been a bit tight, and that is one of the reasons I’m here at the user’s forums. I love P4, I have no complaints and it's hard to imagine how it can be improved on.
As much of a gearhead as I am, I'm not all that excited over the 64 bit sound engine as 32 bit is so far into the over kill zone for us mere mortals targeting 16/44.1 CD market.
Though I do like the little things, it's really nice to see Cakewalk finally tweaked and added to the MIDI sequencer, and the V-Vocal looks like a great addition.
Cakewalk adding a convolution reverb is REALLY increadibly sweet for those that don't have one, but I already have the Waves IR-1 and Sound Forge's Acoustic Mirror.
I can’t tell you how nice it is to actually see posts by admin again, and intelligent and informed posts by users. That is all too rare at Sony Media/ACID Planet forums these days.
Anyway, I’ve been thinking of upgrading soon, I’m currently working on several song projects in P4 nearing completion that I’ve been focusing on, as well as tutoring a few collaborator friends who jumped ship from Cubase SX and Pro Tools.
When they came over and saw how stable and nicely P4 can record 8 audio tracks at once in real-time with Macke Control, M-Audio Delta 1010 that’s all she wrote.
They pretty much went into the freak zone exploring all the built in included buzzers and bells.
Things are really nice now that we all use the same software and Windows PC platform which as finally come of age in the past few years.
I flat out gave up on my Mac Pro Tools MOTU set up when they jumped from OS-9 to OS-X and core audio drivers, what a train wreck that was for 6 months or so, and a very PRICY one too.
That was right about the time when Sonar 3 came out so it was bye bye Mac and I never looked back.
I always loved Windows PC multi tasking architecture Cakewalk’s MIDI sequencing and only went to Mac for multi track audio recording which was excellent, though seriously lacking for MIDI support.


I never like to upgrade in the middle of things because when I finally do I know I’ll be digging deep into P5.

A while back I mused about getting out of Sound Forge and CDA - unfortunately I haven't really found a replacement - CW's Pyro proved to be less than pro for me and I don't like making audio CD's with Roxio and the like - on the editor side, I have audtion - I've used it farily regularly - I've just built so many presets and I like the batch processing I am stuck and I think Sony loves it.

-D

Hi guys...

Yep, my Sound Forge 8 Power book is now available. You can find more info and get a discount by going to my site:
http://www.garrigus.com/powerbooks.asp

You'll also find a couple excerpts here...

http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/article.asp?ID=40

http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/tip.asp?ID=11

with more to come soon...

Thanks!
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of Cakewalk, Sound Forge and Sound Forge 6, SONAR, SONAR 2, SONAR 3, SONAR 4, and Sound Forge 8 Power! books. ** Sonar 5 Power The Comprehensive Guide - Now Available! ** Books up to 37% off at:
http://www.garrigus.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq. Win a free copy of Cakewalk's Sonar 5 music recording software and learn cool music technology tips and techniques by getting a FREE subscription to DigiFreq... over 18,000 readers can't be wrong! Go to:
http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Just a quick note about a recent experience with Sound Forge support.

I too was looking for an audio editor to go along with Sonar... I focused primarly on Adobe Audition 2 (since I have the rest of their Video Collection) and Sound Forge 8 (since I have a copy of Sound Forge 5 that I once used quite a bit, but stopped for some reason).
After demo-ing Audition, and liking some things about it (particularly the video integration with the other adobe apps), I decided to hold off altogether until I decided what I really wanted to use it for... meaning, I have audio multitracking in Sonar and Cubase... what I really wanted was an editor.

So... I decided to install my copy of Sound Forge 5 and use it in the mean time. However, when attempting to download product updates, Sony had dropped support for version 5 for "technical reasons."
I emailed them last night asking where I could get the updates for version 5, and by end of day today they had replied with an apology and a vague explanation of the support drop for Sound Forge 5, AND a new license and download link for Sound Forge 7 for free.

It's my first and only experience with Sony support for Sound Forge, but if you ask me that's stellar. It's not version 8, but it was FREE, and to me that's pretty cool.
I'll definitely go with Sound Forge for the immediate future. It showed up in the Tools menu of Sonar with no configuration on my part as well.
Sweet.

SONAR 5.0.1 has stopped asking me if I want to import the new version...how do I re-enable this? Any ideas? It is quite frustrating!

EDIT: Discovered you have to have "Copy events as linked clips" enabled for this to work properly.

SoundForge 5 and SoundForge 8 seem to normalize totally differently. Despite requesting -16db for music, in SF8 it is significantly louder than in SF5 (with precisely the same settings) and even still hits 0db on its peaks, whereas SF5 never (well, mostly never) does this on -16db.

Also, SF8 is based on dotNet, which may be the reason it stutters when you change window size and other things whilst playing back. SF5 is more well behaved on this.

I thought this was good for a bump, but also have a question: when you guys say that you are able to use the Sound Forge VSTs in Sonar, are you saying that you are able to use them in real time? I myself am unable to use SF effects in real time in Sonar without immediate dropouts, regardless of aud.ini settings; and have found references in old posts that seem to say that Sound Forge effects aren't real time effective in any program. If there is some kind of work-around that I don't know about I'd love to hear it.

Bump.

Wpuldn't it be rather nice to have a Sonar/Soundforge tips section. I am pretty sure, because foks work in different ways, that we could make use of the valuable information that individuals provide about methods for mastering in Sound forge.

I was using 5 a while back, but not in great detail, so I placed it on the shelf and left it there. Soundforge 7 peaked my interest again, but I still didn't update until Soundforge 8. Now I'm back on the Soundforge trail with 8 and loving it.

I search the forums occasionally to see what others are doing with it to see what xtras I can pick up in my mastering process.

Soundforge Tips section would be great as SF compliments Sonar.

Peace

Jonboper,

Yes, we are talking about real time use. Even while still in Sonar, we highlight the audio track go to Tools and open Soundforge and begin working on the audio file. when we are done, we can save the audio file changes back to Sonar.

Cool huh?

Peace

Thanks for the reply Jesse G, and yeah, I think I've got that part down, though it's still pretty strange/new/cool. But what about using Sound Forge effects in real time, e.g. right-click on the FX bin, scroll through the options, insert a Sound Forge effect (they all show there as options for me), and play the song and tweak the effect.

I just get dropouts when I try to do this. Sound Forge effects don't work for me in real time...But this is working for you, or no? It just seems like it would be really cool to be able to use the Sound Forge effects like this.

ORIGINAL: jonboper

Thanks for the reply Jesse G, and yeah, I think I've got that part down, though it's still pretty strange/new/cool. But what about using Sound Forge effects in real time, e.g. right-click on the FX bin, scroll through the options, insert a Sound Forge effect (they all show there as options for me), and play the song and tweak the effect.

I just get dropouts when I try to do this. Sound Forge effects don't work for me in real time...But this is working for you, or no? It just seems like it would be really cool to be able to use the Sound Forge effects like this.

Sound Forge effects have always been hit or miss in Cakewalk products. I don't suggest using them.

Mod Bod, I think it was an earlier post of yours that clued me in to the fact that the effects might not work across programs at all. Is this a bug (that could be fixed if I FRed it) or fact of life (that I can let go with Zen-like disattachment)?

ORIGINAL: jonboper

Mod Bod, I think it was an earlier post of yours that clued me in to the fact that the effects might not work across programs at all. Is this a bug (that could be fixed if I FRed it) or fact of life (that I can let go with Zen-like disattachment)?

I could go into a history lesson of "he said and they said" between the bakers at Cakewalk and the bakers at Sonic Foundry all the way back to the pre SONAR nntp-group days. The best thing is to just let it go. There are some SF plugs that will work and some that won't. Honestly, I've always disliked the SF plugs. In fact, when I'm using SF, I'm mostly using plugs from SONAR or other third party plug ins.

I'm glad to hear that this is being tested NOW (not at some undefined point in the future). I appreciate the work you do; and I hope that the resolution comes within a Sonar 5 point update -- or at least by Sonar 6.


All the best to you Ron! Thank you.

It looks like the cakewalk FX plugins and some others in the cakewalk line will not work in Soundforge 8. When you load the plugins while in Soundforge, there is a message that tells you that, "This Plugin is only liscensed to be used in Cakewalk Sonar. An unrestricted version can be purchased from www.dspfx.com" You will have to go through them to find out which ones don't work, there are too many.

In addition,

Lexicon Reverb doesn't work, some of the Project 5 plugins don't work,

All 32 of my Waves plugins work fine.
The Wave Arts Track plug works fine.
Timeworks EQ and Compressor work fine
All in the Voxengo Mastering suite works well.
PSP Vintage meter works that's all I 've checked so far.
ALL Sonitus Works
BBE Sonic Maximizer works
SSL Oxford Mic compressor plug in works

There are more, but I am tired of testing plugins, beside I mainly use the Waves and Voxengo with Soundforge 8.

Peace

WTF! I think you have the wrong forum there my little princess
Please take your variant, on this obvious Nigerian email scam somewhere else. We are not so easily fooled here, my dear

Cheers and most heartiest good riddance!

LOL!

I have been using Soundforge 6 with Sonar for quite some time, but when I upgraded to a new DAW system with a Tascam FE 88 as my interface I have a problem. I can be working on a sound file, and select a clip to edit go to tools, select Sound forge, but it gives me an error about having problems dealing with the type of file. Has anybody experienced this problem. I will get proper error codes when I get home. I'm just curious.

John

I use Sound Forge for it's effects/plugins. Also, for reverse reverb effects.

SF is a dedicated audio-editing program. SONAR has some audio editing features, which may suffice for some projects. SF simply has more.

I use SF frequently for:

(1) Fine-grained audio splicing

(2) Loop creation for use in samplers

(3) Noise reduction when importing audio from old cassettes or LP's

(4) Diagnostics (frequency analysis, location of isolated clips, etc.)
SF also has a neat clipped peak restoration tool for use on occasional stray overs.

(5) I use various SF effects when the SF effect is what I need. The convolution reverb ("Acoustic Mirror") comes with a huge bunch of impulses. The time- and pitch- shifting tools are pretty powerful. The fades in SF are often more to my taste than those in SONAR. Etc.

SF also allows files to be saved in a way that allows undo even after closing out the program -- I like having the whole history available.

Yes, the latest version of Sound Forge (version 9) has a lot going for it since it includes the Noise Reduction software as well as the mastering plug-ins from iZotope...

* Sony Sound Forge Audio Editing Software

Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 7 Power & Sound Forge 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/ - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/

Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/

Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/

ORIGINAL: Mod Bod

ORIGINAL: jonboper

Thanks for the reply Jesse G, and yeah, I think I've got that part down, though it's still pretty strange/new/cool. But what about using Sound Forge effects in real time, e.g. right-click on the FX bin, scroll through the options, insert a Sound Forge effect (they all show there as options for me), and play the song and tweak the effect.

I just get dropouts when I try to do this. Sound Forge effects don't work for me in real time...But this is working for you, or no? It just seems like it would be really cool to be able to use the Sound Forge effects like this.

Sound Forge effects have always been hit or miss in Cakewalk products. I don't suggest using them.

I've used "Simple Delay" in I think pretty much every project I've done for the last four years or so. It does exactly what it says it does, really handy effect.

Anyway, Sound Forge. I've been using it for 12 years, and I really like it a lot. But with every year's DAW improvements, I think it gets less and less essential. You really couldn't get by in Cakewalk Pro Audio and the first couple of versions of Sonar without it, just to do some proper editing of audio clips. I find myself using it less and less often. It's still unbeatable when I do need it though.

Hello,
I am using Sonar 8.5.3 on Windows 7 64bit and Sound Forge Audio Studio 10.
When I select a track or a portion of a track within Sonar, I click on tools/menu and then select Sound Forge. It all works. I am able to edit the track within Sound Forge. However when I save it, the changes are not being reflected back into Sonar. I am obviously missing a step or two.
I would assume, that SF would automatically remember the path of the sonar track once its opened in Sf, so when I saved it, it would know where it should be saved. Well, this isn't the case. I have searched and searched to find the path but can't find it.
So what am I doing wrong? What do I need to do in order for SF to save it where Sonar is holding the track in memory within the project. It would be great that once I save the edited track in SF, Sonar automatically applies the changes.
James

Has anyone had an issue with the last used (of any) VST plug-in settings not being remembered in Soundforge? I've had this problem since moving up from about SF8. I'm now using SF11. I've seen the same question asked on SF forums but no replies. Pete.

Once you edit a sound file in Sound Forge all FX plugins used are mixed and embedded and can't be undone once you hit the save button.
 Sound Forge itself doesn't store any history of editing events or what FX were used once the sound file is "saved".
 You can however manually enter all your moves and or what Plugins were used in the "Song Properties Summary" and it will be saved in metadata.
 I've always found it to be a good idea to never edit the original sound file, but "save as" all editing sessions to different version numbers and always list the differences in "Song Properties Summary".
 
 To recall any FX settings you used and created to use at a later date and time, you need to hit the "save as" button in the FX dialog box and then "name" any of your tweaked plugin settings to a user defined preset in Sound Forge BEFORE applying the FX or it will reset back to default settings next time you open the VST.
 
  As a safety precaution Sound Forge will not allow you to edit [destroy] original factory presets [names] for any FX plugin.