I think when they made mac version they missed a golden opportunity to start from ground up onnpc version. Adobe did that with audition. There was some awkwardness at first and they finally ditched some features that did not work anyway like using vsti. Its a bit bloated but better now especially if you do video

I think Reaper gets it right ..at least from the consumer's perspective. No upgrades The product simply is the product and  is perpetually being updated at no charge. Not sure how that woks out on the financial end for them. I tried to like reaper and there are parts I like...yet even a cool price plan has not swayed me.
 
autocomplete in my phone does odd things

Anderton

Danny Danzi
Hi Craig,
 
So you have this software that you paid for. You have problems with it. You contact support and nothing can be done to help you with your problem. Because it's software, one of the only things in this world that we CANNOT return, you are stuck with it.
 
Now, a year later, you get an email telling you that for such and such a price, you get version 2. In version 2, this that this this this and this has been fixed and this that this and this has been added. Though it's at an appealing price with really good stuff, you are STILL left with a piece of software that may not work for you that may have things in your workflow that will not ever work for you. And you're just supposed to chalk it up and suck it up. Think about that for a second while being in a financial situation to where upgrading may not be possible for you. And, maybe switching DAWs may not be an option. What do you do and how fair is that?
 
But what are your thoughts about a situation like that?

People should avail themselves of demo programs, and use the software to see if it can provide the features that are most important for them. Granted, demo versions are not always available for all types of software, but the issue here is about Cakewalk and Sonar, not about what other companies do. Although Cakewalk does not necessarily release demos simultaneously with a new product, if someone really wants to make sure the software is right for them, they should probably wait until they've had a chance to try out a demo. For example if comping with multitrack drums is really important, then test that functionality and if a program doesn't do it to your satisfaction, try another program. (Back when ReWire was new and implementations varied wildly, I didn't get Reason until I knew it could ReWire reliably into Sonar.)
 
It seems most of the people here have some specific workflow issue, bug, or simply a disagreement with the designers of how a feature should be implemented. In the case of the latter, I think it's unreasonable to expect a feature to be implemented that addresses a small section of the user base IF that feature has been implemented in such a way as to serve the needs of the majority of users. Speed comping is a good example of that. If you're doing traditional comping, the new speed comping is a HUGE improvement over the previous options. The tradeoff is that it may make a more esoteric comping application more difficult, but that benefits a much smaller section of the user base. Designers will tend to want to satisfy the greatest number of people.
 
But also, there's a much bigger issue at play here as the scenario you describe applies to high-tech products in general in both our industry and consumer electronics. It is definitely not the case that "anything else in life we buy that doesn't work right has options." Far from it. The world of consumer electronics is littered with orphans that not only have bugs, but if they stop working, cannot be fixed and aren't supported. Also, many of them required investments in content that is no longer useable. I also don't like the fact that most repairs these days are board swaps instead of component replacements. There are a lot of aspects of having a relationship with high-tech gear that are highly problematic because society does not place value on permanence, but on low cost and convenience. There are plenty of computer hardware devices that will work just fine with 64-bit operating systems, but the companies deliberately chose not to update their 32-bit drivers either because they felt it wasn't worth the effort, or because they wanted to induce people to buy new products. Anyone who DID try to create a 64-bit driver ran the risk of violating the EULA about reverse engineering and could have been prosecuted. I guess technically speaking, that's an option...just not a good one.
 
All the problems mentioned in this forum can be fixed simply by throwing resources at them. I'm sure Sonar could be very close to everyone's ideal software if it cost $10,000 and was purchased in the same quantities as people who buy the standard versions. But that's never going to happen. As consumers, we have to decide whether the low prices (relatively speaking) we pay for high tech products are sufficient incentive to give a pass to the fact that some problems will exist, and some of these problems will turn out to be intractable. Do I like that? Not particularly. Do I accept it? Yes.

 
Good stuff there Craig. Thanks for sharing. Quite a few things in that post that I didn't consider. I guess because sometimes the human being in me/us just comes out. There's just about nothing better to me than getting that new version of Sonar and firing it up for the first time. It's like a first date. Ok, that's a bit much...but I'm sure you know what I mean. You put it through its paces and bang...roadblock. You come to find out that....THAT particular roadblock is probably not going to get fixed and well, speaking as an emotional human being, it's easy to see where people could be pretty upset, ya know? I'm in the same boat with you though....I accept it, but only because I don't have another choice other than to go back to tape. Every DAW will have its quirks and will never be perfect. This I know. I just feel for those that may not have been as fortunate as us with stability or their need for specific functionality. It's just easier to say "we feel your pain" instead of "you're a troll....read the manual, update your drivers, get a new computer" when in reality, the person just may be experiencing issues that have affected work-flow. Anyway...thanks for replying....it's always great to hear your take with the experience you have on all fronts. :)
 
-Danny

Goodbye, thanks for all the laughs - and have a nice day..
BTW here is a picture of the brush you are painting everything with:




 
 

elijahlucian

CakeAlexS
I find quite a lot of disrespect for people that have problems with Sonar on this forum.  Sort of a love it or leave it mentality.
 
It's not disrespect, if people want to jump ship - jump. We're here to help when we can, discussions can be interesting as well within the product as long as they are specific or within expectations. Otherwise it's a waste of our time.
 
I regard Cakewalk now as two different companies, the pre X-3 company and the current X-3 company. The time around X-2 esp sucked, X-3 company is looking good and has learnt or is learning from its mistakes. If people have had enough of their Sonar version, come into X-3 land, or jump ship (whatever). Just not interested in debating about it whatsoever. You are either in or you are out.

well that sure is a rose-colored way of looking at it... however it IS the same company, with the same customer base and access to the same code as roland had. 
 
this is not a $20 album that you bought in high school that you realize is super crap. this is a tool that is defective. period. I submitted a bug that could be reproduced by tech support as well as many others on the forum. Cakewalk is directly responsible. If i buy a company and I have defective products, it is my responsibility to answer for them, it is still the same company "CAKEWALK", my bug report was submitted back in April.. Plenty of time to release a patch, or when Gibson got a hold of it, perhaps they could have reviewed X2 bug reports and did a final patch as a courtesy to their customers. 
 
Even windows vista was stable in the end before win7 was released. win7 was great, and all, but at least MS FIXED their product before releasing another!
 
sure, we have 'speed comping' now.. but we were PROMISED fast comping with X2! that's what the take lanes were!? or did the marketing videos just lie to me? 
 
most software companies, when they introduce a feature, makes sure it works. or they find a way to compensate for it, such as speed comping, but not at a $150 price tag. I dont need the extras. I just want a working X2! I already own melodyne! why am i paying a bloated upgrade price for things i don't need... basically an update to guys like me... every 'new feature' I already have everything! I have AAS, I have REAL acoustic guitars and a space to record them, got reverbs, got FX... what I DONT have is a stable platform in which to use them. I can't believe people can accept this skewed vision on business. it's ridiculous.
 
anyways I'm unsubscribing to this thread. 

Just so we're on the same page, according to Merriam-Webster: "Defective: having a problem or fault that prevents something from working correctly." Not all customers are like you, have the same needs, own the same collection of plug-ins, or care about (or even encounter) the same bugs. If Sonar X2 was truly "defective," and it was not possible for it to work correctly, then my YouTube channel would have no music videos on it.
 
A product can have a defect without the overall product being defective. My car's left side lock is broken, but the engine still runs and I can still get from point A to point B. I would not consider the car defective. I would consider the lock defective.

FYI Vista has been available for purchase for almost 7 years yet it still has problems, and still gets updated. Microsoft is very generous about continuing to update end of life products but they have to, given the zillions of enterprise installations all over the world, many of which lack sufficient hardware power to run new operating systems efficiently.
 
All software has bugs. Virtually all companies will at least try to fix the show-stoppers that affect a significant number of users. Past that it's all a matter of time, resources, ability to reproduce, future plans (e.g., resources will usually not be spent on fixing something that will not be included in future versions), and customer base.
 
It's very unfortunate, and no doubt highly frustrating, that Sonar has a bug which greatly impacts your ability to do projects the way you'd like to work. I am not minimizing that at all. What I do question is the universality of this problem, and its applicability to the majority of users that would justify diverting resources away from fixing more common problems and doing new product development.

Alex...I'm not sure of a nice way to ask this or even if it is a violation of TOS to do so.  I preface this by saying I am not trying to insult you and certainly wish you no harm.  At the same time, i cannot be the only one wondering this:  Do you have some kind of mental or drug related diagnosis that  causes odd outbursts?  I ask because I will certainly try to be understanding and compassionate if you do, but i am a bit perplexed otherwise.

Interesting segue: From whether Sonar is stable to whether people are stable.
 
I think the short form is that by and large, people have more bugs than software.

Alex..There was nothing passive aggressive.  It was a direct question. A yes/no type  I have no vendetta against you.  It was an honest question and one I guarantee others have thought even if they did not bother to ask. .  This is not the second time I asked you this.  i did ask you something along the lines of why you seem to get into arguments thread after thread after thread.  You did not quite answer that either but I suppose that's a nice way of saying "none of your business" which is perfectly acceptable.  I'm just trying to see if I am dealing with a guy who is out of his mind or a guy who just likes to fight.  Either way, it's probably best to ignore you. The line between humor and insanity is often decided when the only person laughing is the one who thinks he is funny.

MR R Edwards - please stop trolling me, this is what you wrote that last week. Good day to your Sir.... I really don't care. Go and have a good moan about something else. Thanks for the direct attack though, appreciated

blimey

zzzz....