dantheninja
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xonar or creative
in the middle of putting my PC together on www.buildyourbox.co.uk dont know whether to buy an asus xonar or a creative soundblaster soundcard. Wich is better and does it make a difference??
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mudgel
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 07:21:45
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neither. If you want to get any reasonable use out of SONAR you need a sound card that has good stable drivers. Any of the semi pro cards from Echoi, M-Audio, Motu, RME etc will be far better. there are cards that you can get for as little as $100 and will prove much better than any sound blaster or SB imitation. Sorry: I forgot to welcome you so Welcome to the forum. I hope this is the beginning of a long and enlightening association with one of the best forums on the net for this kind of thing, that is support for DAW software.
post edited by mudgel - 2011/02/19 07:23:40
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 07:27:10
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I would recommend neither. Aim for a pro-audio card or external interface designed for music production rather than a general purpose / gaming card. While Soundblasters are probably not as black as they are painted on this forum, they do seem to be behind a lot of stability issues. I use an ESI Juli@ PCi card, its relatively inexpensive and I am very happy with it, but there are many other options out there. Look at products by cakewalk, M-Audio, Novation etc. I am sure others will jump in with recommendations. edit - Mudgel got there first.
post edited by Glyn Barnes - 2011/02/19 07:29:32
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jimknopf
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 08:57:53
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As soon as a card has certain specs (which many modern cards have) it doesn't play ANY role for recording into X1, if it is a consumer market card or a "pro audio" card. The real pro audio cards like RMEs or Saphires etc. are quite expensive and give you extra low latencies and some other goodies for recording. The lower end "pro" cards (meaning nothing more in this case than their functionality is reduced to recording) aren't a bit better for recording than a better Soundblaster or an Asus Xonar. The latter has excellent specs and up to date drivers, and delivers full muldtimedia functionality besides recording. So it just depends on what you want to use your card for: on a pure recording computer a pure recording card makes sense, but on a system with mixed use including multimedia you can use something like the Xonar and have equally well recording results as from any "pro" or pro  audio card. Just check the specs and user reviews.
post edited by jimknopf - 2011/02/19 09:00:36
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codamedia
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 09:06:44
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I'm with mudgel and glyn on this one (sorry Jim  ). Consumer cards sound fine, but for the very little difference you will spend to get a low end "pro" card, it is well worth it. Why? Because the companys that make the pro cards aim to deliver top notch drivers that are tweaked better for recording. Consumer and pro cards will sound pretty much the same coming out of the box, but going in the pro cards will provide a much better experience. Just my 2 cents.
Don't fix it in the mix ... Fix it in the take!
Desktop: Win 7 Pro 64 Bit , ASUS MB w/Intel Chipset, INTEL Q9300 Quad Core, 2.5 GHz, 8 GB RAM, ATI 5450 Video Laptop: Windows 7 Pro, i5, 8 Gig Ram Hardware: Presonus FP10 (Firepod), FaderPort, M-Audio Axiom 49, Mackie 1202 VLZ, POD X3 Live, Variax 600, etc... etc...
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jimknopf
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 09:44:00
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No sorry needed, we just discuss experiences and evaluations. I oppose some soundcard generalising myths, which I think are not based properly on facts. You have to do a concrete check beyond generalising.
I know from testing that it makes no difference, if I use e.g. a dedicated lower price Maudio recording card, or an old Soundblaster Audigy Platinum, or the new Xonar, to get identical results with the proper settings and asio drivers. There's lots of choices out there, and not restricted to pure recording cards.
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 17:51:23
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dantheninja
in the middle of putting my PC together on www.buildyourbox.co.uk dont know whether to buy an asus xonar or a creative soundblaster soundcard. Wich is better and does it make a difference??
Dont listen to those guys that tells that creative soundblaster card dont worth it, becouse its just a repetitive myth of the vulg , I recomend an ¨all in one¨ Audigy or X-Fi extreme music solution instead a two channel or 4 channel m-audio card, or whatever other in the same range specs/price, why? Real time 0 latency monitoring effects great ASIO drivers/snr 108 better that some M-Audio about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc) remote control that can be use as a remote control surface/controller(amazing!) greta front panel with SPDFI, MIDI, AUX, Phones etc Soundfont support!!!, you have an internal sampler, 0 latency! Of course there are several aspect that can be consider: Need a mixer with preamps Its not easy to setup and understand the audio/effects/MIDI routing on this cards, once you master the Audio HQ youre done
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StarTekh
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 18:42:01
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>This post above.. is priceless
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Zo
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 18:47:30
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Track : "i'll pay fa it" featuring Soulja Slim and Mystikal 2002 ./...made with a 800mhz pc and a soundblaster live !!
But it's 2010 , if you have the budget go neither , but to answer your OP : Creative is the answer ...wdm mode
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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Zo
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 18:47:41
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Track : "i'll pay fa it" featuring Soulja Slim and Mystikal 2002 ./...made with a 800mhz pc and a soundblaster live !!
But it's 2010 , if you have the budget go neither , but to answer your OP : Creative is the answer ...wdm mode
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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Zo
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 18:47:42
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Track : "i'll pay fa it" featuring Soulja Slim and Mystikal 2002 ./...made with a 800mhz pc and a soundblaster live !!
But it's 2010 , if you have the budget go neither , but to answer your OP : Creative is the answer ...wdm mode
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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John
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:12:59
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about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc) Just wondering where are all those inputs and outputs?
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jimknopf
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:21:12
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You could all challenge my view instead of seaking easy prey...
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rabeach
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:32:26
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Try to get a sound card that has the best stable clocking, AD/DA chips, and active low pass filters that you can afford.
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:32:46
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John
about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc)
Just wondering where are all those inputs and outputs?
oH YEAH, I even record drums with my Audigy platinum,have two in the back, two in the aux front panel, two in the line/mic in (also front panel) and two SPDFI, you can monitor with zero latency, zero CPU effects
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:44:06
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codamedia
I'm with mudgel and glyn on this one (sorry Jim ).
Consumer cards sound fine, but for the very little difference you will spend to get a low end "pro" card, it is well worth it. Why? Because the companys that make the pro cards aim to deliver top notch drivers that are tweaked better for recording. Consumer and pro cards will sound pretty much the same coming out of the box, but going in the pro cards will provide a much better experience.
Just my 2 cents.
... tweaked better for recording... what a weak and fun argument, i just have to laugh...
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:54:10
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jimknopf
As soon as a card has certain specs (which many modern cards have) it doesn't play ANY role for recording into X1, if it is a consumer market card or a "pro audio" card. The real pro audio cards like RMEs or Saphires etc. are quite expensive and give you extra low latencies and some other goodies for recording. The lower end "pro" cards (meaning nothing more in this case than their functionality is reduced to recording) aren't a bit better for recording than a better Soundblaster or an Asus Xonar. The latter has excellent specs and up to date drivers, and delivers full muldtimedia functionality besides recording.
So it just depends on what you want to use your card for: on a pure recording computer a pure recording card makes sense, but on a system with mixed use including multimedia you can use something like the Xonar and have equally well recording results as from any "pro" or pro audio card. Just check the specs and user reviews.
This guy knows what its talking about
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John
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:54:49
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carlosagm79
John
about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc) Just wondering where are all those inputs and outputs?
oH YEAH, I even record drums with my Audigy platinum,have two in the back, two in the aux front panel, two in the line/mic in (also front panel) and two SPDFI, you can monitor with zero latency, zero CPU effects
And all those inputs are on separate channels in X1 and can be recorded all at the same time, right? I have an Audigy EX with the same layout and only one input can record at a time. I don't use it anymore but its still on another machine. I don't think you know a whole lot about what multi input means. Also I can't really comment on CL's ASIO support for their new cards but for all the years I have had a CL SB in my computers I have never known them to work well. They are a cut above an on board sound chip but they are no substitute for a solid pro audio interface. Advising others that they are fine for pro audio applications is irresponsible.
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Fog
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 19:58:34
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Dan, if thats an advert for them... well it's not a good one.. there are fundamental things they are missing 2+ hard drives on their "so called" audio machine and a host of other things, which I'm not going to list. that company sells gaming pc's soundcard, don't bother with either of the 2 you mentioned. it depends on your budget and what you actually need it for.. try to thing 2+ years down the line, you want a card to last you at least that long and not outgrow it..but it depends on your needs. I can't recommend M audio because they took 3 months to update their drivers for a product I had, and they handled "support" badly, even though I gave them the actual problem in specific details. cakewalk do good stuff BUT in blighty the price in some cases isn't on a level playing ground (due to the import taxes etc) so i went for http://www.musicradar.com...re-6-usb-242260/review but again it depends on what YOU need it for. Carlos, you have to paint the whole picture, the samples stay in system ram regardless of being used of not ? if that is still the case, then it's a very important omission. if your saying the pre's are a match for a different card , maybe slighty better even the emu.. then your mistaken.. why would emu wanna mess up as both products /companies are creative.. creative being consumer.. emu being aimed at musicians
post edited by Fog - 2011/02/19 20:00:02
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timidi
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:10:16
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what language is this thread in?
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rabeach
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:12:01
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carlosagm79
John
about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc)
Just wondering where are all those inputs and outputs?
oH YEAH, I even record drums with my Audigy platinum,have two in the back, two in the aux front panel, two in the line/mic in (also front panel) and two SPDFI, you can monitor with zero latency, zero CPU effects
The specification sheet I found on the web (not sure it is current) says you are locked in with 24-bit Analog-to-Digital conversion of analog inputs to 48kHz sample rate. I could not find their web site after one google so I gave up.
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:12:24
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John
carlosagm79
John
about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc) Just wondering where are all those inputs and outputs?
oH YEAH, I even record drums with my Audigy platinum,have two in the back, two in the aux front panel, two in the line/mic in (also front panel) and two SPDFI, you can monitor with zero latency, zero CPU effects
And all those inputs are on separate channels in X1 and can be recorded all at the same time, right?
-RIGHT!!!
I have an Audigy EX with the same layout and only one input can record at a time. I don't use it anymore but its still on another machine.
-Because you never knew how to work with the card, lots your money, lost your time, please read the manual first
I don't think you know a whole lot about what multi input means. Also I can't really comment on CL's ASIO support for their new cards but for all the years I have had a CL SB in my computers I have never known them to work well.
-I tested the Live!, The Audigy Platinum EX, the Audigy ZS, and the X-Fi extreme music, and for years,all of them works perfect in a well tweaked system, and the proper configurations. And yes I do know what Im talking about , I use some of the card for multi track recording and as a soundfonts sample player, the one whose dont know what a INPUT MEAN ITS YOU, or you never saw the bunch of ASIO inputs and outputs inside Sonar?, don tell me you just use in WDM mode..
They are a cut above an on board sound chip but they are no substitute for a solid pro audio interface. Advising others that they are fine for pro audio applications is irresponsible.
-Why?, because you say so?, once again read the specs form some creative cards, better than a stupid little M-Audio
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...wicked
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:15:41
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Well, I had a Soundblaster Live! many moons ago. I also had an AVM Apex, an Audiophile 24/96 (which would be closer to recommending if you're on a budget, I loved that card), and now a Presonus Firebox.
Certainly if you're strapped you can music with a frickin' tin can and a spoon... or a Soundblaster card. But if you're building a DAW for use in your work, the audio interface is going to be the engine that drives it. Guts and gumption will get you a long way with a little, but you don't see Nascar drivers fueling their rigs with "heart".
Practically speaking it makes the most sense to put your resources behind the most important pieces of kit. If you can't get the top of the line (who can, right?!) you'll want to figure out your price point and do some research (and ask here) and choose accordingly.
All of the advice here is good. You CAN make music with a Soundblaster card. But if you're looking for multiple I/O, low-latency performance for soft-synths and recording, built-in DSP, or any of those things the better card you get the less time you'll spend dealing with it's shortcomings. If you wanna powerful DAW, get as good as you can afford (chosen wisely of course). It' the most logical advice.
And really, just to make this a little easier, astoundlingly capable interfaces (card or external USB/Firewire) can be had for very cheap. A box like mine? $200. And Audiophile card? Sheesh what, $100?? If you're already dropping $40 or so for an SB card, toss in $60 can call it "peace of mind" insurance. Believe me, you won't regret that.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:17:49
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rabeach
carlosagm79
John
about 8 channel 24/96 simultaneusly recording (in Platinum EX, X-Fi extreme etc) Just wondering where are all those inputs and outputs?
oH YEAH, I even record drums with my Audigy platinum,have two in the back, two in the aux front panel, two in the line/mic in (also front panel) and two SPDFI, you can monitor with zero latency, zero CPU effects
The specification sheet I found on the web (not sure it is current) says you are locked in with 24-bit Analog-to-Digital conversion of analog inputs to 48kHz sample rate. I could not find their web site after one google so I gave up.
There is so many models, the old audigy platinum its locked to 48/16 or24, but the old Platinum EX its 96/24 REAL without resampling), like most modern soundblaster cards, what INTERNET you have?, sure and internet about 10 years ago, anyway I dont believe in 96khz, Im not a whale,jajaja
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John
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:23:07
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-I tested the Live!, The Audigy Platinum EX, the Audigy ZS, and the X-Fi extreme music, and for years,all of them works perfect in a well tweaked system, and the proper configurations. And yes I do know what Im talking about , I use some of the card for multi track recording and as a soundfonts sample player, the one whose dont know what a INPUT MEAN ITS YOU, or you never saw the bunch of ASIO inputs and outputs inside Sonar?, don tell me you just use in WDM mode.. Are you for real? A SB has only one stereo input. It does have multiple jacks but those are for different input types. The mixer for it does all the routing. A proper multi input card has more then one input. Check out real pro cards, please, to see how they work.
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:34:16
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Carlos, you have to paint the whole picture, the samples stay in system ram regardless of being used of not ? if that is still the case, then it's a very important omission. if your saying the pre's are a match for a different card , maybe slighty better even the emu.. then your mistaken.. why would emu wanna mess up as both products /companies are creative.. creative being consumer.. emu being aimed at musicians
After all sorry about my english
what I found here its lost of ignorance and a lack of actualization about SB card(everybody its talking about SB live, AWE and the oldest Audigy)
Its funny that you dont know that SONAR have a soundfont manager system integrated, and can load, save, display the sound fonts patches dynamically into RAM and per projects , so they don't stay in ram(except that you want to, for that I use the Crative Soundfont Bank Manager and I always have a small GM compatible bank, 20 megs, what its that with 4 gigas,jajaja)
In the last years Creative after bought EMU its trying to focus the ¨Pro¨side to the EMUs card, but still amazing sound blaster cards with topnotch specs, and intended for music creation ( with sf2 support and ASIO drivers)
Some EMU card use HI-Z preamps, and Pro Tools grade converters, but are more more expensive
Audigy does not have preamps, phantom power, or that silly stuff that beginners musician and small homestudio user wants in a package , you need a real mixer, I do prefer a real good mixer with multichannel ourputs than a two channel little box with preamp s,and remember, at the end, its not about what you have, just how you use it
post edited by carlosagm79 - 2011/02/20 03:26:42
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:38:33
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John
-I tested the Live!, The Audigy Platinum EX, the Audigy ZS, and the X-Fi extreme music, and for years,all of them works perfect in a well tweaked system, and the proper configurations. And yes I do know what Im talking about , I use some of the card for multi track recording and as a soundfonts sample player, the one whose dont know what a INPUT MEAN ITS YOU, or you never saw the bunch of ASIO inputs and outputs inside Sonar?, don tell me you just use in WDM mode..
Are you for real? A SB has only one stereo input. It does have multiple jacks but those are for different input types. The mixer for it does all the routing. A proper multi input card has more then one input. Check out real pro cards, please, to see how they work.
Man , Im telling you that I record multitrack with my Audigy card, 6 analogs inputs and two digital, each in diferent tracks in Sonar, also lots of ouputs, IF YOU DONT WANT TO BELIEVE ME THATs YOUR PROBLEM, go and read the manual please, I have a DIGI 002 (with Pro tools) interface also, 8 analogs inputs, 2 SPDFI, and 8 ADATS inputs, also a TASCAM US-224, I know what Im talking about, obviously you dont!!!
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Kroneborge
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 20:46:35
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carlosagm79
John
-I tested the Live!, The Audigy Platinum EX, the Audigy ZS, and the X-Fi extreme music, and for years,all of them works perfect in a well tweaked system, and the proper configurations. And yes I do know what Im talking about , I use some of the card for multi track recording and as a soundfonts sample player, the one whose dont know what a INPUT MEAN ITS YOU, or you never saw the bunch of ASIO inputs and outputs inside Sonar?, don tell me you just use in WDM mode.. Are you for real? A SB has only one stereo input. It does have multiple jacks but those are for different input types. The mixer for it does all the routing. A proper multi input card has more then one input. Check out real pro cards, please, to see how they work.
Man , Im telling you that I record multitrack with my Audigy card, 6 analogs inputs and two digital, each in diferent tracks in Sonar, also lots of ouputs, IF YOU DONT WANT TO BELIEVE ME THATs YOUR PROBLEM, go and read the manual please, I have a DIGI 002 (with Pro tools) interface also, 8 analogs inputs, 2 SPDFI, and 8 ADATS inputs, also a TASCAM US-224, I know what Im talking about, obviously you dont!!!
Wait, why are you using an Audigy, if you have a protools interface?
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carlosagm79
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 21:03:23
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Kroneborge
carlosagm79
John
-I tested the Live!, The Audigy Platinum EX, the Audigy ZS, and the X-Fi extreme music, and for years,all of them works perfect in a well tweaked system, and the proper configurations. And yes I do know what Im talking about , I use some of the card for multi track recording and as a soundfonts sample player, the one whose dont know what a INPUT MEAN ITS YOU, or you never saw the bunch of ASIO inputs and outputs inside Sonar?, don tell me you just use in WDM mode.. Are you for real? A SB has only one stereo input. It does have multiple jacks but those are for different input types. The mixer for it does all the routing. A proper multi input card has more then one input. Check out real pro cards, please, to see how they work.
Man , Im telling you that I record multitrack with my Audigy card, 6 analogs inputs and two digital, each in diferent tracks in Sonar, also lots of ouputs, IF YOU DONT WANT TO BELIEVE ME THATs YOUR PROBLEM, go and read the manual please, I have a DIGI 002 (with Pro tools) interface also, 8 analogs inputs, 2 SPDFI, and 8 ADATS inputs, also a TASCAM US-224, I know what Im talking about, obviously you dont!!!
Wait, why are you using an Audigy, if you have a protools interface?
I use whatever I want whenever I want..., ok, this is not the real reason, but sometimes I use the Tascam, sometimes the audigy, sometimes the DIGI, it depends, I bought the DIGI later, also the Tascam, all of them great. The real reason why sometimes I keep using the audigy, well, have hardware effects monitoring, 0 latency(so the singer can hear a nice reverb and I still can record dry, 0 cpu load), SOUNDFONTS, for me its essential , I make music with my huge library of SF2, I convert all the time new AKAI, Kontakt, whatever llibrary to sf2 and...0 latency, 0 CPU, does not have 18 channel input like DIGI but have 8, enough in most cases, and... a nice remote control that i use to control Sonar,jajaja
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John
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Re:xonar or creative
2011/02/19 21:04:04
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