I've got a ton of sims.  Love some, like some.  I usually use them for recording just because it's so easy.  BUT, there is something magical about standing in front of a cranked amp!!

In the 1970's (late) I played thru a Fender Bassman with the 8x10 cabinet (I think it was an 8x10). I used to throw a 944 Chain Reaction in front of it...and for only playing "electric" guitar for a few years, I thought it screamed. It was completely sublime for "me" at the "time". Unfortunately, I did not own this, and wish I had.
 
I did not realize that I would be chasing that tone for the next 25 plus years, sort of a learning journey if you will.
 
I had had an assortment of gear since that time, including a Marshall stack that consisted of two 1960B cabs, a Peavey CS800, and a Digitech GSP21 Pro Legend, six space extra deep rack, cables, etc. which for "me" at the "time" sounded GREAT. Mind you, I walked in to the local shop and purchased all of this new in box at the same time, after having done all the research and auditions and I could be wrong, but it was around  $1500.00 +/- $200.00. At the time it was what I wanted and it served my purpose, and I was still very early in my learning journey, which later led me to T.C. Electronic. I won't bore you with all of the other failed rigs and wasted funds.
 
But, there was always something missing...
 
In the late 1990's (I think) I walked into a local shop and plugged into a tube amp (listed later)...and there it was again, that sound and feeling...TONE.
 
I now have two 100 watt tube amps, run in stereo using a Radial JX-2 Switchbone ABY Switcher/Combiner. I hit the front of the amps with Xotic pedals...AC, RC and BB Preamp for any number of combinations and for any number of reasons.
 
I use a Morley Bad Horsie Wah II & an Ernie Ball volume pedal on that same pedal board, as that pedal board is dedicated only to the front of the amp. I use a Cioks DC10 to power that board.
 
My second pedal board is dedicated to the FXLoop. I use a Behringer FCB1010 to control my Strymon Mobius, BigSky and Timeline. I use the Voodoo Lab Pedal Power Digital to power this board, and am so impressed and happy with Strymon that I am waiting for them to release an intelligent pitch shifting harmonizer.
 
Once I started down the correct path for "me" it has been moving along slowly for the last 13 years.
 
I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone is different...$2200.00 is a drop in the bucket compared to ALL the gear I bought and sold over the last 25 plus years.
 
I purposely listed all the gear to give you an idea of what I have invested over the past 13 years.
 
Everyone is different and that is good, I don't think there is a bad path to take, as it provides a learning experience and helps to get "you" where "you" need to be.
 
I don't know anyone, myself included, that had unlimited funds for gear. I tried and failed many times over those years...but one lesson stands tried and true..."you get what you pay for".
 
For "me"...I am a classic/prog rocker that writes all of my own music and the tube amp does it for me. Whether I use the pedals and the loop, or not, I am just as happy hitting the bypass on all FX and turning up the reverb tank on both amps and just digging in. But, yes I do love my FX and my pedals hitting the front of my amps.
 
I have two Mesa Boogie Tremoverb 2x12 Combos that share a Marshall 1960B cabinet that I restored and rewired to allow both amps to use half of the 4x12 cabinet.
 
I live in a very rural country setting and play at somewhat loud volumes, but not too loud...just enough to be able to stand about 15 feet from the amp and feel it, while allowing me to turn my guitar in three different positions and get three different harmonic feedback sustaining tones, which I was not able to do with any rig before. Is the feedback important...I can lie and say no, but I am not telling you about the feedback to impress you, but instead to paint a picture...two tube amps, pushed, NOT hi-gain, but pushed...the relationship the guitar has to this setup is just ridiculously incredible, and can't be simulated. A guitar player will play differently using this type of set up and the inspiration just flows.
 
I know some of you may be thinking these amps are for metal, and maybe that is why I waited until last to reveal them, but I don't play metal (not that there is anything wrong with metal) and these are very versatile amps, anyway, I just turn the gain knob to 50% and get a very musical classic rock/clean tone out of the hi-gain channel. If I need to push a little harder I use one of the pedals from Xotic. The plus is the Xotic pedals sound incredible used alone too. Someday I will have a Fender for a real super clean sound, as the Tremoverb does a great job, but does not shine brightly in that category.
 
I really hope this is not coming off as a sales pitch or braggadocio...as this is NOT what my intentions are. This is one person's experience. I am trying to say two things here...don't worry about how much something costs if it fits your needs and be patient with what you think you need. I raised a family and had no money for music gear, but made it work for the 20 years I played the circuit with cover bands. If I knew then what I know now I would have had the right core gear to begin with (after robbing a bank) and then added the frosting as I went along, but that is all part of the journey. Hell, even with the great Strymon stuff, I wish I never sold my old Phase 90...well you get the point.
 
Oh, by the way...I close mic one Tremoverb with a 57, the other Tremoverb with an E906, and the Marshall is both closed mic and room mic'd with two AKG C4000B. All at the same time during tracking for blending, nudging tracks etc. during mixdown.
 
The sound is great...but I have never tracked using a simulator...so I cannot comment on that, nor am I knocking it.
 
Just listened to both the Kemper and Fractal. Damn nice sounding.

That's pretty wild Tremo JEM that I have almost every gadget you mentioned and just got the Strymon and it is a great piece. As an Amp Tech for many years oh maybe about 25 I've seen lots and have recorded lots and heard them all live and can honestly say there is a place in the recording world for it all. The moddlers and VST to SS to Tube can all be setup arranged and played to give an individual a certain feel or vibe that can be a perfect fit or maybe not so good a fit depending on the expertise at hand.
One thing is for fact and that in all of my years I have never met a Amp tech who didn't take to tubes like candy with a kid. This obviously holds true for me also but the big thing Imo is the difference in powertube distortion and preamp tube distortion when micing amps and it's night and day. Certainly you can get a great tone from using preamp distortion but you can get more even order harmonics with powertube distortion which relates to a warmer tube tone like the ones you hear from Hendrix,Van Halen ect... Of course the type of tubes you use as in NOS can also be attributed to better tube tone and many other mics and micing techniques. That's the big difference Imo between the simulation and the real deal. The simulation is close but there aren't the even order harmonics because they aren't capable of producing them like tubes are.
 
Bule

Bule,
 
I completely agree...in fact I have been looking to add a Lonestar to my lineup. It offers 10/50/100 watts of power.  I would imagine that if I set it at 10 watts of power it would be very loud, but still allow me to saturate the power tubes to some degree. A friend of mine has the 5/15/30 offering of this amp and that would be even nicer to add...along with the first one I mentioned, as I just love the big powered beasts.
 
So yes, I totally agree and wish I had this at my fingertips, instead of always relying on preamp tube saturation.
 
Oh, by the way, which Strymon did you get? I have the Mobius, BigSky and Timeline...absolutely love them!

I go back and forth on this although I do tend to do more simulated sounds of late simply because I'm not playing in a band and have no need of turning an amp on (Mesa Boogie Lone Star Deluxe and Fender Twin 65 reissue)
 
Sim wise I've got Guitar Rig 5 and Scuffham S-Gear and an external POD XT rack mount thing. I user GR 5 for effects but not so much for the amps. I use the S-Gear a lot and I like the results I get. Once a year I plug the POD in.
 
Oddly two weeks ago I was using a DAW mostly noted in EDM circles and I built a rack out components that come with it with the exception of an NI compressor going in and an NI reverb on the tail...I tracked a lead part and in re-listening to it I was surprised that I actually liked it - I am never satisfied with my tone.
 
So what can I say? Use what works for now and keep working for better tone in the future.
 
Regards,

jude77
kennywtelejazz:
 
I LOVE this line in your post:
"to this day I have never had anyone hire me to play my guitar after hearing me play out of my rig and request that I use an amp sim ...it has yet to happen."
 
Truer words were never spoken.  I use sims because they're easy, but amps are MAGIC!!

thanks jude77   
 
Yes , I agree amps are Magic ….that is when I get to play out of them…such is apt living  .
 
on my most recent tune  I didn't even use an "amp sim" or an "amp"  
 
Late Night Tele 
https://soundcloud.com/guitarist-kenny-wilson/late-night-tele
 
sometimes it's just better for me to go old school . I will go direct and just use the DAW's built in plugins and tools 
usually compressors , EQ, delay and a little bit of reverb 
I can usually get away w doing it that way on a clean jazz guitar sound .
 
Kenny 
 
 
 
 

I own a Bogner XTC, JSX, MESA Lonestar, MESA Mark IV and a EVH 5150 III.  They all sound great live, but I could never capture that sound to "tape."  I got so tired of looking for that elusive mic/speaker sweet spot, changing tubes, trying out different cabs and speakers.
 
I finally sprang for a Kemper.  It took be a couple of months of trying out different profiles and tweaking but eventually I started to figure out how to get the tones I was looking for.  Now I have a set of profiles that I record with.  I don't have to set up or tweak any thing...I just hit record and play. 
 
I haven't played one of my real amps in months.  I'll still keep the amps because it is fun to crank them in the room and get that pant leg flapping in breeze vibe coming from the shear power of the amps.  But, for recording, the Kemper is just to easy, spot on and consistent every time.

Danny,
 
I may totally regret engaging on this topic, but that FXII is VERY interesting. I love complicated sounds but I've been looking to simplify my setup and my workflow. I have a bunch of vintage pedals and I run an old Boss SE70 set to do U2 shimmer. Listening to some of the samples of the FXII, it seems to be able to do everything I can do with my setup but is recallable. That's the part that kills me - I an almost NEVER get the exact same sound a day alter with all of the analog gear. I've been spending a lot of time with Amplitube because of this, but it's not quite there (though very impressive).
 
I used to run a large rack with a Axxess switching system (three GCXs!) and I'm back to a regular pedal board. Still, the idea of a single rack unit - that is appealing.
 
Do you run this through a PA speaker? I have a Marshall Bluesbreaker style cab from mojo tone with a Greenback and a Vintage 30 in it - would this work with a nice power amp? I'm guess you could split the single coming out of it, so you could record direct while also hearing yourself through the cab, which would be great.
 
I'm really going to chew on this. I have a few amps that I'm not really playing that I could roll into the Axe FXII.
 
Ug, I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread... :)

Hi Tom,
 
yea, the SE70 was an impressive unit in it's time - and still pretty darn amazing! I also have the half-rack EQ that goes with it. :) I'm just using them to create the shimmer effect and it works well.
 
I had the Bluesbreaker cabinet built to house my 50 watt 78 Marshal JMP MKII (not an amp I'd sell), but I hated having the chassis in the cabinet (facing up and backwards) so I just have the head sitting on it now and treating it like a standard 2x12. I had a 4x12 I loved but the thing was just way too loud. I couldn't decide if I wanted Vintage 30s or Greenbacks in this, hence one of each. :)
 
I've been watching videos of the Axe FXII and I'm soooo interested. It's got the pitch-shifting stuff that I love built right in - wow. I've started a spreadsheet of things I could sell to get this. Dang, I think I am on the path...
 
For all you high gain fans, check out this video. Not my style, but props to the guy that put this together:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3vdra-gxJ0
 
 

smallstonefan
Danny,
 
I may totally regret engaging on this topic, but that FXII is VERY interesting. I love complicated sounds but I've been looking to simplify my setup and my workflow. I have a bunch of vintage pedals and I run an old Boss SE70 set to do U2 shimmer. Listening to some of the samples of the FXII, it seems to be able to do everything I can do with my setup but is recallable. That's the part that kills me - I an almost NEVER get the exact same sound a day alter with all of the analog gear. I've been spending a lot of time with Amplitube because of this, but it's not quite there (though very impressive).
 
I used to run a large rack with a Axxess switching system (three GCXs!) and I'm back to a regular pedal board. Still, the idea of a single rack unit - that is appealing.
 
Do you run this through a PA speaker? I have a Marshall Bluesbreaker style cab from mojo tone with a Greenback and a Vintage 30 in it - would this work with a nice power amp? I'm guess you could split the single coming out of it, so you could record direct while also hearing yourself through the cab, which would be great.
 
I'm really going to chew on this. I have a few amps that I'm not really playing that I could roll into the Axe FXII.
 
Ug, I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread... :)

James, (you and Tom are going to hate me after reading this lol)
 
Yeah, I regretted when I found out about the AxeFx too. Then I regretted posting about it here because then I got pm's from about 5 forum member's wives yelling at me about it. LOL!!!!!
 
I still have a few racks that I use for different situations, but that AxeFx is my main rig now. I'm ready to buy another for the studio due to how versatile it is. I almost want to post up my "shimmer" sound. LOL!!!! Honest, this thing does it all. And yes, you can do all the stuff you want to do. It has incredible pedal capability and will get all the sounds you could ever dream of. It even has a synth in it in case you want to go there.
 
The best part about the Axe in my opinion James.....it can be as complicated or simplistic as you want it to be. You saw my grid boxes of effects in this thread, right? Those sounds were cut and dry really...nothing special with the routings. All that is...is my effects into the amp of my choice...my cab emulation, and other effects in a loop. It looks more complicated than it really is. But in reality, the real set-up would look more complicated because we'd have a signal direct into the amp and then other effects into the effects loop. With this, we see it all in one shot.
 
As for your routing questions....you have several outputs you can use. I currently run from a Line 6 Relay G-90 wireless (the best wireless ever...I can't tell the difference between it and my cable!) and then into a Rocktron single space, 300 watt power amp. From the amp I go into 25 watt Marshall Greenback Celestion cabs. Sometimes 1, sometimes 2, sometimes 4. I have XLR outs available that can be run into our pa. As  matter of fact, we forgot to bring my cab (my singer brings my cab for me since I got rid of my truck) and I went XLR out of the Axe into our pa, and my soundman gave me a little feed into my monitor. I really didn't miss my cab as long as I was in front of the monitors. So it's great no matter how you use it. OR, you can use it with your cab AND into the pa at the same time if you want to. We've done that too, but it wasn't an incredible difference that made me say "oh we so have to do this all the time!"
 
So you should have no problems with this thing doing everything that you want it to do. I will say this...don't procrastinate on getting the foot switch. I know it's expensive and you can get fairly close to what it does using another midi switcher. However, no midi switcher you buy will be as seamless as the one that goes with it. I have one of the best midi switchers ever made. A Bob Bradshaw switching system. I purposely ignored buying the Fractal pedal board because the Bradshaw is so incredible.
 
When I found out all the things I'd have to program and manipulate to get it close to what the Fract board does just by plugging in, it made me curious. The more information I gathered, the more I saw what COULDN'T be done using the Bradshaw. So I spent the additional $749 and got the board and the Mission Control pedals as well. So if you have the cash or can save the cash, definitely consider it. I know, now your wife will be sending me mail bombs too! LOL! :)
 
Tom: Yeah, you can sample anything. All your amps, any pre-amps you may have collected over the years, any VST amp sims you may currently like, any insects in your studio that are flying around (I'm serious on that one) horns, piano, bagpipes...this thing is so sick, after you spend a few months with it, you totally understand why it carries the price tag it carries.
 
The latest firmware update to 15.3 is remarkable. It literally behaves even MORE like a real tube rig. I'm still impressed they have the 12AX7 sound down so well. I'm not much into that whole "so loud the output tubes saturate" thing....I'm more of a "gimme a hotter 12AX7 pre-amp and let me be a little lower in volume" kinda guy. But you'd have no problems dialing up any tone with what comes stock. Numerous amps (I think we're up to 190 now with the newest update) more cabs than you can load into the thing (unless you get the XL model) and every effect known to man including a talk box.
 
Sampling amps etc: My way of handling this wasn't to sample my amps because I haven't had time to really dive into that. So what I did instead was sample my sounds in my amps. I used a Digitech 2101 for most of my guitar playing life as well as a few amps here and there. So for me, I played through the amp/pre-amp of choice and recorded the sound either with a mic or direct. You save the wave files because you will need to feed them into your Axe.
 
You must (or at least should) create a sound that sounds close to the sound you are trying to cop. Then, feed your recorded wave sound of your amp or pre into the AxeFx. It has it's own soundcard etc. From there, you play and the Axe profiles what you are playing. You then press a button and it applies the sound you wanted to cop to your current sound. I have been completely successful with this 10 times out of 10 on all counts. I've copped my best 2101 sounds, my old Marshall sounds, an old Ampeg, and some of my favorite VST guitar sim plugs.
 
Now if you don't try to come close with a sound before you apply the curve, sometimes you can get lucky there too. For example, if you wanted to cop the lead sound Harrison got in "Something" by The Beatles and you have the sound in one of your amps, it would be best if you tried to come close on your own inside the Axe. THEN feed the sound sample of you playing that lead into the Axe via mic or line, press the button and it should be 99% there. It's easier when you have a sound dialed in that is close though.
 
This is super easy when you have a sound sample from the person you may be wanting to cop. For example, my Van Halen sound is based off of EVH playing the song "Unchained". I created a sound in the Axe that I felt was darned close. I then grabbed that part of Eddie playing the beginning and took the sample into the Axe. It profiled it, then I played and it profiled me....I pressed the button and it applied his sound to mine and the hair on my arms stood up. It's scary close man...even when I play through an amp. That's the other cool thing about the Axe...if you have it hooked up in soundcard mode and have your power amp turned on, it comes through your cab. So you can REALLY see how the sound you are sculpting is coming out. Again I say, I hate the price of this thing...but the power and versatility, not to mention the realism....just blows my doors off the more I play with this thing.
 
-Danny

Hi James,
 
You're welcome. I really do apologize for coming off like I'm trying to sell the thing. But the fact of the matter is, it really is incredible and I never thought I'd be one to use anything like this. If I wasn't using an amp that was tube, I was using a pre that was tube. So for me to go total transistor is unheard of.
 
Speaking of big racks, I can so relate. The reason for me to have the big rack was I was never sold on one company's multi-effects units. It was rare for me (until the Digitech 2101) to have an all in one that blew my doors off. So my big rack had cool effects in it that excelled at what they did for me. Like the old Alesis Quadraverb that had an analog sound that also had super fast switching live....or the ADA Mp1 that had a killer clean sound or the ADA Pitchtraq that was the best un-intelligent sounding/tracking pitch unit out there. A Digitech IPS 33b or a DHP 55 which was like a poor man's Eventide that did just about everything the Eventide did other than burn a hole in your bank account. A Rocktron Chameleon to bail you out as a back-up pre which also had killer effects built in as well as some trippy sounds...a Digitech Time machine delay that gave me up to 8 seconds of sampling. (which was sort of unheard of in the 80's and 90's for a guitar processor unless you used a tape driven delay)
 
Stuff like that is what made my rack huge as well as a few amps in there. So I can relate. Thankfully I didn't use any pedals other than my Bradshaw controller pedal. All the other pre-amps in my rack would have enough gain to carry me over. I'd then have two amps with me too so I could switch between the sounds of them as well as my pre-amps that were on board. So in reality, I'd be digging from 2 amps and 3 pre-amps.
 
Move ahead to today....both amps and the pre-amps I used could be sampled right into the AxeFx and bang....all the sounds they had to offer in a 2-space rack that really does sound as convincing as the amps and pre's it sampled. (which is what I sort of did) 
 
So in my situation, I have banks of sounds. A few banks have all the best amp sounds that I could get from my favorite amps. Another bank has all my 2101 sounds...another my Tri-axis and some other amp sims. Incidentally, the AxeFx has a Tri-axis amp built-in...the sounds of that vs. what I sampled are scary close....so the modeling in it has been done really well. Better than any VST I have ever tried, that's for sure.
 
At any rate, if you do get one, give it a month or two before you make up your mind. The presets that come with it are decent (supposedly they have re-written them all with the latest revision to sound 100% better, but I haven't tried them as I really don't need them) but nothing special until you create your own sounds and learn how to use the thing. It's pretty easy and should take you about a day to get familiar with it...and a month or two to learn how to totally harness the power. Worst case scenario, if you don't like it, sell it...look on Ebay. They are going for what Fractal charges and more. So it's a good investment no matter what. :)
 
-Danny

I'm so screwed, guess I'll be buying one too.
So do I buy the newer FX II XL or what?
 
T

I look at the AxeFX II a little differently.  Back years ago, it was a pile of amps a great guitar or two and a cable.  MAYBE a wah pedal for the Foghat tune.  I kind of viewed all the rack stuff as pretty much a poor sound and very sterile....  at least at the time.  I've since had some Boss stuff and use a GT-100 now.
But the AxeFX II seems to put things in a new category.  You can now easily get better sounds than I could, trying to mic a 4 x 12 cabinet in the studio or even a little amp, when we all learned Jimmy Page used teenie stuff in the studio.  Seems you plug into the Fractal, connect your brain, ears and fingers all on the same page, and you easily surpass all those struggles.

Problem is in that I'll never get the wife to understand why I need to spend $2k+ on MORE guitar processors, since I've got all these POD beans, J-stations, Boss, Line6 stuff laying around.  Btw, most of the amps are now long gone.  Way too loud anymore.  Even the young kids seem to hate the volume live.
 
OT...I just sold my original ProCo Rat for over $300.  Incredible, since my GT-100 has one built in as well and sounds every bit as good.  My early issue fuzzface (without knobs!!) got even more. 

mixmkr
Problem is in that I'll never get the wife to understand why I need to spend $2k+ on MORE guitar processors, since I've got all these POD beans, J-stations, Boss, Line6 stuff laying around.  Btw, most of the amps are now long gone.  Way too loud anymore.  Even the young kids seem to hate the volume live.
 

that's one of the reasons i LOVE my old vintage mesa boogie.
 
with it's 2 channels and master volume, i can 'almost' get my tone at any volume, including bedroom.
 
the only reason for me to go with any other amp, would simply be for different timbres and gain structures..
 
but honestly, i just don't want that many different tones..
i just want 3 really good tones, clean, dirt rhythm, and lead voice