A couple observations about real vs emulated amplifiers

For a number of reasons, some of them geeky, some of them lazy, I've been really focused on recording guitars direct and using a variety of amplifier simulations to make them sound better.
 
Last night I threw a pair of e609s on a pair of amplifiers, plugged in a couple pedals, and hit "record".
 
First observation - I think I play better when I'm playing into the amplifiers. OK, maybe not better, but definitely different.
 
Second observation - man I play loud! The amp volume was considerably louder than playback volume. Probably always been that way, but I happened to notice it last night.
 
Third observation - it took me maybe 30 minutes from "gee I want to record electric guitars" to hitting record. And that's cause the studio is not set up for this sort of thing right now, I could cut that in half easily with a little effort. But ok, 30 minutes to set up two amplifiers, find and set up a few pedals, and plug in a couple microphones. I did not set up a cue mix. But I'm pretty sure I'd have spent more than 30 minutes trying different plug-ins, tweaking, etc. And with the effects baked in that's one less thing I'll play around with<G>!
 
Fourth Observation - I really liked the sound I ended up with. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
 
I think my amplifier plug-ins are going to collect dust for a bit...

there is much more of a connection between the player and the equipment, than most any simulator can replace.
 
people can argue about the 'sound' all day long.......
but after all is said and done, it's about the 'feel'....
and being inspired.
 
i just haven't ever been inspired by the way an emulation feels.
 

You have too much gear Dave<G>!
 
For a long time I had four amplifiers set up at all times, fed from a pedal board monstrosity that I've since rebuilt more than a couple of times. I can't remember ever using more than two amplifiers at any one time, but it was nice to be able to pick and choose.

Each amp had a dynamic microphone more or less permanently rigged, and there were stands for a second microphone (ribbon or condenser) set up as well. These were all "stupid" close, and I always thought I'd find that perfect spot, but I always seemed to end up moving them all around till I found whatever I was looking for.

There was also a room microphone set up. This was a stereo ribbon, and much to my surprise I was able to use just the room microphone more often than I ever imagined.
 
All of this made recording guitars a breeze, but somewhere along the line I ended up playing out, and it was disassembled, and never put back together again. I really need to consider putting it back together again!

My nod to direct is an Adrennalinn 2, which sits on the producer's desk. It is the only amplifier simulator/effect device I've ever really liked. And I think I use it as an effect, especially time locked effect, more than as an amp sim - although the AC-30 emulation is killer.
 
I had a couple of Line6 boxes for a while, but somehow they just never really caught my fancy. I think it might be time to give them a try again.
 
But last night proved that I need to go back to recording through amplifiers!!!!

I haven't bought an amp since I was in my 20's. Every amp I had I ended up selling because I was short of cash, and then regretting it later. Marshall head, my Fender valve/transistor combo...I think the last amp I had was a Roland Cube, which I still have somewhere back in UK (I should really audit all my old stuff sometime and work out what I left with whom...)

I really miss amps though. Used that Marshall head in a thrash band back in '89/90 and I'll never forget what it felt like to stand in front of the stack and chug at full volume...might have lost some of my high frequencies from that but it was worth it heh heh...

I too can't get that excited about amp sims. Although they're still better than I thought they would be when I first found out that amp sims existed...

I think this man noodles around pretty well on a sim.
 
http://youtu.be/BOts6VbgIak?list=PLPyY-j6Yu9Nr91VvjcrhlisQ6KFkY2Bad

Paul Rose has excellent tone, touch and feel on any source he plays through. Lately he is into his little 5w H&K.

The same debate rages on the subject of real synths versus soft synths....

The new VHT Special handwired head is $229.00.
 
Way more fun than a new pair of sneakers.
 

My biggest gripe with amp sims (and digital pedals) is with overdrive. There is a spot in most analog amps and pedals where the gain can be turned up to a point where the signal sounds clean when playing softly but distorts when hitting the strings harder. That adds another dimension to the instrument in that notes can be emphasized and they sound cleaner as they fade. Digital devices/sims all seem to have the same sound no matter how hard you hit the strings. Maybe it would just require too much processing power for vsts to emulate this behavior?
Edit: formatting got screwed up.

There is no argument that I sound like me no matter what I am playing, or plugged in to. That's just the nature of making music. And the same is true for every player... even if you are trying to sound like someone else<G>!
 
My complaints about amp and effects emulation can probably be reduced to three:
 
1) my guitars, and therefore I, react differently to sound coming from a guitar amplifier versus sound coming from studio monitors. How much of this is physical, and how much of it is in my mind really makes no difference, it happens, perception is reality.
 
2) while my current pedal board provides a pretty broad spectrum of sounds, it is still finite, and I spend only so much time dialing in a specific sound. With any of the emulators I use (except maybe Haggis) there are just too many options, and it becomes a bit of a black hole of time.
 
3) while the amplifier models are getting really close (in fact some of them really do cover those idealized models we have in our heads) the pedals are still lagging behind. I've yet to hear models of the original Big Muff Pi or Rat that come close to reacting the way my pedals do, and no one seems interested in modeling the SD-9, which I prefer over the more famous sibling.
 
Now emulations have some pretty big advantages too:
- no ground loops, no bad connections, no broken cables, no wrong power supplies, etc. If the plug-in is working then everything works.
- no set up time, of course if you leave your gear set up this is less of an issue, and even if you don't, the flip side is the time-suck mentioned above<G>
- more variety - I have a Mesa Boogie Studio 22, an Orange Tiny Terror, a Fender Blues Deville, an old Fender Bassman, and a pair of 18 watters I'm building based on the old Fender and Marshall designs, oh, and a Vibratone. That's a fair range of sounds, but it pales in comparison to any emulator.
- more variety part 2 - I won't even try to list all the pedals, but I have enough to create pretty much any sound that enters into my imagination... still pales in comparison to most any emulator.
 
Ultimately it is all about those tools that let me make the music I hear in my head... and for me it is still real amplifiers, real pedals, and real microphones. Now that I've (re)discovered that I can do that in a timely manner, well, I'm happy!

Use them all...

Karyn
Use them all...

I don't think I have enough cables. :-)

Maybe different amp sims are better suited to certain guitars. I have trouble getting a decent tone with my Telecaster through Guitar Rig 5, but I can't not get a decent tone with TH2. I've heard people say the opposite. I need to check out Amplitube. I still use Guitar Rig a lot though, for the effects chains. You can really do anything you can dream of in there, especially if you learn to use the modulation tools. I use it for synths all the time.

wst3
For a number of reasons, some of them geeky, some of them lazy, I've been really focused on recording guitars direct and using a variety of amplifier simulations to make them sound better.
 
Last night I threw a pair of e609s on a pair of amplifiers, plugged in a couple pedals, and hit "record".
 
First observation - I think I play better when I'm playing into the amplifiers. OK, maybe not better, but definitely different.
 
Second observation - man I play loud! The amp volume was considerably louder than playback volume. Probably always been that way, but I happened to notice it last night.
 
Third observation - it took me maybe 30 minutes from "gee I want to record electric guitars" to hitting record. And that's cause the studio is not set up for this sort of thing right now, I could cut that in half easily with a little effort. But ok, 30 minutes to set up two amplifiers, find and set up a few pedals, and plug in a couple microphones. I did not set up a cue mix. But I'm pretty sure I'd have spent more than 30 minutes trying different plug-ins, tweaking, etc. And with the effects baked in that's one less thing I'll play around with<G>!
 
Fourth Observation - I really liked the sound I ended up with. Pretty much exactly what I was looking for.
 
I think my amplifier plug-ins are going to collect dust for a bit...

I'm totally with you. However, I think you have to try a modeler that would be as pricey as one of your good amps. THEN you may think a bit differently. For example, the Fractal Audio Axe Fx II is insane. They really got it down, Bill. So much so....the feel I'm getting out of this thing as well as the 12AX7 tube saturation....is creepy good. Try something like the Fractal piece or the Kemper. They really have the modeling thing down to the point of the difference being so slight, it doesn't really matter to me. I can't even tell you what the difference is after the last Fractal update I installed. Not only that, but they have tone matching as well.
 
So if you wanted to tone match all your favorite amps and have them in one box, they have it down. Seriously....the more I mess with this thing, the more it creeps me out....in a good way of course! Pricey as heck, but it's worth it in every aspect and then some. I have just about every amp known to man right at my disposal and THIS thing has it down. The amps that I DO have when compared to it, are about 95% spot on right out of the box. With a few tweaks I can't tell the difference. Instead of tweaking the ones that come with it, I just hit the tone match button and tone match my amps, pre-amps, plugins and anything else that I like.
 
I've tone matched bag pipes, violins, my voice, keyboards, acoustic guitars...it's really incredible. My bud has one...and got a bee in his studio. It was flying around the light, so he threw a mic up there, tone matched the bee, and when he played his guitar...it sounded like a bee. A realistic bee at that...it's not fake. What you put into it, you get out of it. So before you bail on the modeling thing, try something that really has some power behind it that isn't a POD or plugin. The Fractal Axe FX is one of the most groundbreaking processors I have every tried. Every amp, cab and effect known to man just about. The Kemper is cool too...a client brought one of those in a few months ago and left it for the weekend. Ugly as sin, but a powerful modeling amp that also has tone matching.
 
That's really the cool thing for me now. I tone matched all my amps and the best sounds out of each of them. So now I have them all loaded up in one box and at a touch of a button, I literally have that exact sound. Definitely something worth looking into. Then again, if you have all the good amps and tones you want, you don't have to look any further. But if you decide to live a little dangerously, check out the Axe FX II. It's one serious piece of kit and doesn't compare to any of the modelers I've ever tried. :)
 
-Danny

Thanks Danny! I thought I had my GAS under control!
Tom