ORIGINAL: sandman5000
for all the reasons I already stated, I have a different POV. I do believe it when there is a consensus of 'amateurs' saying a particular mobo works well. And I know UAD would have a good mobo recommendation if I asked them directly. But again, what does UAD have to do with the OP? It's a scare tactic. And what if one never wants to use UAD or firewire (like me)?

The daw assemblers don't have the exclusive rights to daw parts lists. But again, we are running in circles now. Cory, I think you are the coolest, but....we are not going to convince each other.

I know, and I truly respect your POV, you know that. We're actually much closer on this than most would assume based on this conversation. Truly, my biggest issue is the fact that you're stating inflated numbers to prove your point... stop doing that, and I'll back off! LOL

It's all good, and it's a free country. Just use real numbers. In my experience (and I've actually PURCHASED from a DAW vendor...) the price difference between buying from them or building myself is negligible at worst.

As I said, the consensus of 'amateurs' sure bent me over, Sandman. Your experience may vary. Personally, I'm not going down that road again, even though I'm a dedicated DIY'er. In this case, it's NOT worth the extra money, to me.

Corey

Scott is right on... on all accounts.

Hey Scott, you enjoying your new fire engine red Ferrari, 30,000 sq ft mansion, and partying like a rock-star with Tom Vu's girlfriends?
Well... you know... being a DAW builder does have its perks.

I'm still AMAZED at the folks who believe that all you need to successfully build a rock solid, reliable, and high performing DAW is just a "magic list" of parts -- couldn't be any further from the truth. Sure, there are LOTS of folks who've done it themselves and have gotten lucky with no major issues, and many MANY more who haven't just as Scott said -- read the forums. I could be wrong, but I personally believe many of the ones who have "gotten lucky" don't necessarily push their systems to the extremes -- which is where a truly well designed (or not) DAW shows its true colors.

I'm a SMALL part-time DAW builder, and have been for many years. Not ANY where near the experience or quantity of Scott or Jim, but I've been quite successful with the systems I have in the field -- many running for several years without a hitch. A friend of one of my clients recently copied the parts list of a DAW I designed, assuming that's all he needed to build an equally solid/stable/reliable system. He found out the HARD way that there's much more to it that a "magic" list of parts, and won't make that mistake again.

I have tremendous respect for what Jim and Scott do, and VERY OFTEN recommend them to potential clients that I can't or won't handle. I get nothing and expect nothing for those referrals other than the peace of mind knowing that customer's needs will be expertly met at a FAIR price with great support. Scott and Jim both have spent an enormous amount of their time and expertise over the years helping people on this forum WITHOUT pushing their systems. I have NEVER, even ONCE, read a post by Jim or Scott when offering advice to a forum member that sounded ANYTHING like an advertisement.

Having done a fair amount of DAW testing and research myself, I fully support and understand why Jim and Scott don't simply post their parts listing to anyone who asks. I would submit, however, that even if they did, most do-it-yourselfers would still fall far short of the same results. BIOS configurations, driver installation/settings, OS configurations, application settings, etc., etc., ALL can have a SIGNIFICANT impact on the overall performance of the DAW -- ESPECIALLY when the DAW is pushed to at or near its limits with massive track counts, low latency settings, and an absurd amount of plug-ins many users expect to use.

I applaud ANYONE who has the time, patience, and inclination to learn and do it all by themself -- that's exactly how I started many years ago. I also have a solid background in analog and digital electronics, recording/engineering, music/live performance -- all of which has served me well as a DAW designer/builder. Quite a few forum members come here seeking the BEST advice in getting a DAW, and for those folks who don't have the time, patience, much less the skillset to do it, I will ALWAYS recommend Jim or Scott -- ESPECIALLY if a high performance and trouble-free system is paramount. For those who enjoy building/testing/troubleshooting/trying new parts, configurations, etc., and aren't doing misssion critical work, then by all means have at it and have fun. But most don't want to take the RISK, they just want to get to what is important which is MAKING MUSIC.

For that peace of mind, KNOWING that you'll get a DAW which will serve as a solid, reliable, and trouble-free tool for making music, the SMALL amount of profit in the systems sold by Jim and Scott are well worth the extra expense in my opinion, especially when you consider the support provided (if needed) after the sale. Could the do-it-yourselfer get support on this forum? Of course, and often times from Jim and Scott. Could the do-it-yourselfer get some BAD or just plain wrong advice on this forum? Of course, happens all the time by good well-meaning forum members who just don't know any better.

In the time that Jim and Scott have been in the DAW business, several others have come and gone. If the services they provide and the value they add to their systems were overpriced or not needed by the market, they would be gone as well -- but they're not -- history has proven that they are needed and that they have a good and viable business model. I will continue to recommend them to anyone who asks without reservation.

Why is there so much talk about luck and magic? We're just talking about computer parts and configuration!

When I do some research to determine which parts will work well together, and then build it, I don't consider my parts list to be "magical", nor do I feel "lucky" when it works. I respect DAW builders, but I will probably never use a UAD card, and I'm willing to ask around about performance, cooling, quality, compatibility, and configuration.

I, for one, would love for more forum members to share their experiences (like midimal did). I understand when a pro determines that it's not cost effective to build their own DAW. But for some hobbyists, building the PC and tinkering with it is part of the fun.

Maybe we need a "Computer - Do It Yourself" forum. Or how about a "Build you own DAW" forum. Then the hobbyists could freely ask questions and exchange information without all of this constant consternation between the "do it yourself" crowd and the "purchase and ship" crowd.

ORIGINAL: Mr Blint


If you are lucky enough to find someone posting advice who built a DAW that works great - who has the exact combination of hardware and software components as you, as well as the devices that you know you might be adding in the future, then consider yourself lucky and hope that the guy is posting honest information and isn't using a component that worked in his case - but is actually a component that has a history of very poor reliability that later burns you!

Not trying to be difficult, but I have to ask. So what is the point of this forum? If I understand you correctly, the only information that should be trusted here is the advice to purchase from a DAW builder.

ORIGINAL: InstrEd

I don't think that is what he is implying. It is a realization as you need a more complicated system with UAD's and such the computeris more prone to not working right. Even Scott (DAW builder) has said if you're a home hobbiest with modest track count you normally are okay DIY route it is when you need extreme low latency and complicated set up's that knowledge comes into play.

Well said.

ORIGINAL: JimMcCann

please don't slam Jim and Scott for offering their advice to folks...

It looks like you were replying to my post. But no "slamming" here.

If you are building your own I salute you. Took me a long while to make that decision. My reason is strictly financial. Fixed income and all that. Take your time. Educate yourself by first deciding what you want your machine to do and if it'll grow with your growing needs. If it's for music, talk first to musicians with tech knowledge. That's way better than talking to someone who builds for business or gamers. Although I've replaced parts, I've never built a complete unit so I'm a neophyte like you. I'm sure these guys will eventually get together and guide you correctly. There's another who frequents this site and others who has been a great help to me. His name is Chalfant. Don't know if I can mention that other site where Scope 4 Live is found. The first 2 letters are N O. He's a serious musician who works on the Vegas strip and is very knowledgeable about systems that work. When I'm finally ready, I'll have talked to at least close to a hundred people and contacted numerous manufacturers and distributers. In time though, it's you who has to decide and live with it. Don't know the other guy but Jim's stuff is all over the place. I'll even be talking to him when I get paid again. Don't forget these key words. Compatibility, Stability, Performance. In that order. Oh, and I'm 60. Good luck.