Yeah, that's my current GUI redesign objection. For example, instead of Volume and Pan symbols, we now have text saying Volume and Pan.

That is not a removed feature in any way one can count it. We need to start viewing X1 as a brand new DAW entirely. Just like going to a different developer. When we do that it will not be so bad.

Thanks John T for getting the idea I am trying to point out. What is being talked about here is not any function or ability that Sonar offered as a feature being removed.
What is being said here are really cosmetic issues. Sure it impacts how one works with X1 as oppose to how one did work with Sonar but not that any real function or feature was in fact removed. I would like for example a user created button bar perhaps as a way to get some of 8's usability back. But I was given the impression that X1 was not as capable as what I already have in 8.5.3. That is false. I think it needs to be stated that one is not going backwards as was stated so many times in other threads. In fact one may gain things. Such as GPU support for taking processing off the CPU.

I have seen posts saying that one should get an ATI card for this new version.  To my knowledge ATI does not support this. I need to look at this further to know the facts. The manual is not clear about what is supported and in what way. But something is being supported. I am not talking about Areo either.

Good advice is really not being thoughtfully given in the wake of us all scrambling to come to grips with this new version. 

yorolpal


In my TV I generally keep my Snap on "Measure" as I'm mostly cutting and pasting Chrouses and Verses and such.  I switch to "Absolute Time", of course, when editing audio clips.  In my PRV however I'm almost always on eighths, sixteenths or their triplet siblings...because these are the most ubiquitous units I'm editing individual notes to.  When moving back and forth as much as I do between views it's good to know what my Snap is set to in both.  Many...many...many's the time in the new setup I've done some editing in PRV jumped back into TV and tried to some editing only to see I'm using the wrong Snap setting...this can be maddening especially if I'm unknowingly set at absolute time...cut and paste a chorus and verse or two and then realize they are all just a tick or two off.  In any case, for many of us, Having different Snap to Grids seems better. 

Exactly!  I use it the same exact way.  I would think most of us do that.  In TV, copying and pasting clips or arranging sections of the song I want the resolution of the snap to the measure.  But in PRV I need a fine adjustment.  Now I'm constantly changing Snap, whereas before, I could get away with leaving TV on Measures and PRV on 16ths most of the time. 

.

John


Thanks John T for getting the idea I am trying to point out. What is being talked about here is not any function or ability that Sonar offered as a feature being removed.
What is being said here are really cosmetic issues. Sure it impacts how one works with X1 as oppose to how one did work with Sonar but not that any real function or feature was in fact removed. I would like for example a user created button bar perhaps as a way to get some of 8's usability back. But I was given the impression that X1 was not as capable as what I already have in 8.5.3. That is false. I think it needs to be stated that one is not going backwards as was stated so many times in other threads. In fact one may gain things. Such as GPU support for taking processing off the CPU.

I have seen posts saying that one should get an ATI card for this new version.  To my knowledge ATI does not support this. I need to look at this further to know the facts. The manual is not clear about what is supported and in what way. But something is being supported. I am not talking about Areo either.

Good advice is really not being thoughtfully given in the wake of us all scrambling to come to grips with this new version. 

John - when I first installed X1 I was not intending to use it as my main DAW until some patches came out and until I got a new computer.  I just wanted to get a feel for it and see what it was all about while I kept working with 8.5.3.  But I haven't done any work in 8.5.3 since the installation.  I've done a ton of work in X1.  There are no "show stoppers" in X1 for me.  Maybe for others.  Sure it takes a little longer to learn some new things, and my keyboard shortcuts mean different things, and it has crashed on me a few times, but I am never going back to 8.5.3.  8.5.3 is old technology based on the first iteration of Sonar, which at that time was ground breaking.  To me X1 is far a far superior GUI and workflow.  It has bugs for sure but they will be worked out.

"Yes - but that requires an extra click.  If the PRV and TV had different snap settings (as before), it's one less click (ie, you don't have to first change screensets) ;)"

Its not only the dual snap settings, but I am also finding that snap "to" snap "by" will auto change without pressing a shortcut nor clicking on the icon, and snap values will also sometimes be random. Ill be working in a full measure, then all of a sudden notice Im at 1/16. I am aware of which keys are mapped and am no where close to touching them.

Other enhancements
In addition to the major new features already mentioned, SONAR X1 also includes dozens of
customer-inspired productivity enhancements, including:
• Improved performance. SONAR X1 takes full advantage of GPU acceleration (graphics
hardware) for better-than-ever performance across the application.

A1 that is the best I can do. That is from the manual page 1244. I don't have enough info to go any further.

But I was given the impression that X1 was not as capable as what I already have in 8.5.3. That is false.

It isn't false in my opinion -based upon using X1 for two weeks. While some things are better and faster in X1, it was advertised as providing general workflow enhancement and myself and many others do not agree that it has delivered in several key areas - which I do think got worse, not better. From what I have contributed and read from others, we are not all just stunned by the newness of the product. It really does need some work to be as usable as 8.5. Its ok to say this. Once it is tweaked, I agree it will blow 8.5 out of the water - but not today. Now, to answer the question as asked; There is plenty missing in this version (and I am just talking about major things completely removed):

• individual snap grids TV vs PRV
• custom menus (huge hit to my workflow)
• fully customizable toolbars (again a big loss)
• the ability to customize mouse behvior in PRV
• color customization for several components (important ones like volume and pan controls)
• synth rack assigned controls are unreadable (I consider this a removal of function)
• dropdowns are virtually unreadable throughout the program
• cannot order console tracks as desired
• many track header buttons were moved to inspector - eliminating ability to make rapid changes to those controls with the keyboard. Again loss of function = removal

Those are just some of the items that were completely removed and not replaced with anything. If I listed what is slow, inefficient, inconsistent, or severely limiting the list would be a bit longer. Just because things were moved about and there is a way to do things does not in all cases mean there is a useful way to do things in X1 - functionality and efficiency are not replaced with something equivalent or better on many counts.

I have to add: if you have a look at the quality of many (clearly not all) of the posts providing criticism of X1 (you'll have to do some work to search through some noise) there are many very deep, careful, and constructive opinions being presented. You seem to be trying to make a generalization that people are jumping to conclusions, at least that is what I get from your post - if I have misunderstood, please forgive me that and clarify so that I understand what you mean. Anyway, unless people are being totally rude about it, I don't feel that questioning or trying to invalidate their complaints will get us to a better product. I'm open to different opinions of course.

Cheers,
D

oh - and I want to be able to change the color of the console view - among other color changes  - 

Cornielous;

It was not my intention to disregard any poster's issues. It was my intention to find out what people thought was not included in X1. I thought it was time for a stepping back, a taking of breath and look at this with some rational deliberation.

To me things were beginning to be a little hysterical on the forum and someone needed to post a thread like this one.

Your list could all be said to be not removed but changed. It all depends on how one looks at it. Things moved. Others consolidated. And still other made consistent is not a reduction of any feature that 8.5 had. Heck X1 still supports Studioware. Cal is supported as well.

We knew that Sonar was getting a bit musty. We knew that sooner or later a massive change was bound to happen. I am freaked out by the fact that CW has found a way of including all that was in 8.5 and still come up with a brand new DAW. That should be applauded and right now I hear far to many boos.

The other things you talked about are also known to CW and will be fixed.

I do feel it important that users speak out to draw attention to problems and issues but there is also a lot of bad information floating around on this forum. 

For better or worse our work-flow is changed with this version. We either learn to deal with it or we move on.

I think that the lack of a full manual contributed to a lot of the early "stuff's gone" postings.

I think you have that absolutely right.

John


Cornielous;

It was not my intention to disregard any poster's issues. It was my intention to find out what people thought was not included in X1. I thought it was time for a stepping back, a taking of breath and look at this with some rational deliberation.

To me things were beginning to be a little hysterical on the forum and someone needed to post a thread like this one.

Your list could all be said to be not removed but changed. It all depends on how one looks at it. Things moved. Others consolidated. And still other made consistent is not a reduction of any feature that 8.5 had. Heck X1 still supports Studioware. Cal is supported as well.

We knew that Sonar was getting a bit musty. We knew that sooner or later a massive change was bound to happen. I am freaked out by the fact that CW has found a way of including all that was in 8.5 and still come up with a brand new DAW. That should be applauded and right now I hear far to many boos.

The other things you talked about are also known to CW and will be fixed.

I do feel it important that users speak out to draw attention to problems and issues but there is also a lot of bad information floating around on this forum. 

For better or worse our work-flow is changed with this version. We either learn to deal with it or we move on.

Hi John,

Thank you for taking the time to clarify - I appreciate that. I think you captured one of the main points of contention, which is that some of us feel that reorganizing and moving things did remove functionality, others of us feel that everything is still there. To me these are mutually exclusive - either equivalent capability (equivalent in terms of ease of use  and efficiency counts too) is there, or it isn't.

I can certainly conceptualize both positions on this issue, but my personal experience in X1 tells me that the ability to get from A to B is crippled in some cases - no matter how adaptable I make myself to the new way of doing things. Some of the choices made are just non optimal. That makes me want resolution in the form of voicing my complaints, having them heard, and eventually hopefully having X1b or X2 the powerhouse I know it can be.

I don't agree that the previous version was musty. I think it needed a GUI update, and maybe a slight spring cleaning, but not an overhaul that dispensed with some meticulously crafted features for what seem like quickly drafted features. I think there may have been a different path forward that added the new functionality and clarity while still preserving the power, simplicity and elegance of the features and customizations that had been allowed in previous versions. As it stands I don't feel like some parts of X1 are either powerful or clear. I would say they are bare bones and in some cases clunky -but I know they are working on it, and I hope the Sonar line will continue to always be home for me.

Again, thanks for the dialog.

Best,
D

I think the internet has somewhat made us all lazy. As soon as something unexpected happens, it's a lot easier to come somewhere like here and post THIS SUX than it is to spend some time trying to work it out.

Maybe a shock when it was announced, but you can't claim it was a shock on purchase.

Craig Anderton has running dialog on his site
http://acapella.harmony-c...-Running-Here.../page5

I found really interesting the posts starting on page 5. I know I want to upgrade, but with my computer still on XP service pack 2 and no staff view improvement, I'll take my time. I have downloaded the manual and started to read it. I like where X1 is heading just really disappointed that staff view was still neglected this time around. How long must I wait