Lynn




Some have suggested that X1 is "dumbed down", but I disagree.  It has been slowed down, IMO.  I consider a slower work flow to be a loss of function, as do others.  As you pointed out, X1 hasn't lost functionality, it just takes longer to function.  When CW went from Pro Audio 9 to Sonar 1, it was advertised as a major change, so users were expecting things to be different.  Actually, most of the same workflow wasn't all that different, and one could still intuitively work with the new Sonar without consulting the manual or help menu.  Just a few minutes ago, I had to consult the help menu, yet again, to find that the track manager, which used to be accessed by hitting the letter M, but now has changed to the letter H.  It is a multitude of small changes like this that we're talking about.  Again, please give us your thoughts after using X1 for 3 or 4 weeks, which, by then, I may have learned the new key bindings and X1 will behave like a Maserati again.

This is a fair way to put it but that was not what I was objecting to. I also think given time the work flow will speed up for most users.  I think others will be slowed down because their use of Sonar was unique for the way it used to be. I don't see how that can be helped.  I do think it can be mitigated by reinstalling some GUI features from the old Sonar.

John - Billy makes a good point.  I assume you will be taking the plunge and upgrading some time in the future, and it will be interesting to hear your comments after you sit in the cockpit .  Have you made up your mind when (or if) you will upgrade?

Why I am so far the only one that is asking those that say this to prove it?

Where are the forum members that want CW to succeed here? Do people really think that misinforming and constant finding fault is helpful to our cause? Our cause being a healthy company and one that will listen to us. If all we do is rant at or about CW they will either turn us off or stop listening to us.

This forum is a marketing tool. If it becomes nothing more that a bashing of CW then I don't see much future in it. 

 
John - I am working my way through X1a. I can honestly say that I like it  - a lot. I think it performs better than 8.5.3 on my rig. (I am sure some will feel that I am obviously not using it in their own uber super-enlightened way and will line up to burn my face off in a retaliatory response). I am not ready to completely move away from 8.5.3 but I like where X1 is headed and will eventually, without question. People are (maybe rightfully) p.o'd at having to learn a new way of working in their DAW of choice, although for those who are most resistant, waiting for the demo might have been a better option than the one they took.
I think there have been quite a few voices of reason on both sides of the debate - Billy (BA_Midi), Scott Lee, Randy Bowser, Mod Bod - come to mind, all of whom have been honest advocates for improvement without any of the vitriol and rhetoric.
From my point of view as an X1 user, Mr. Anderton's review was right on the money. Mr. Anderton is open about his business relationships, and his credentials are well known. I like the fact that he is a long time loyal user of SONAR. I also understand why he chooses not to post on the Cakewalk forums much - what a frickin' circus.
I have no interest in joining the ruckus as I think my time is better spent learning the software and its features. I don't think Cake needs me to defend them - just offering my voice into the pool as one of those who actually likes X1.
 

Brando

Why I am so far the only one that is asking those that say this to prove it?

Where are the forum members that want CW to succeed here? Do people really think that misinforming and constant finding fault is helpful to our cause? Our cause being a healthy company and one that will listen to us. If all we do is rant at or about CW they will either turn us off or stop listening to us.

This forum is a marketing tool. If it becomes nothing more that a bashing of CW then I don't see much future in it. 

 
John - I am working my way through X1a. I can honestly say that I like it  - a lot. I think it performs better than 8.5.3 on my rig. (I am sure some will feel that I am obviously not using it in their own uber super-enlightened way and will line up to burn my face off in a retaliatory response). I am not ready to completely move away from 8.5.3 but I like where X1 is headed and will eventually, without question. People are (maybe rightfully) p.o'd at having to learn a new way of working in their DAW of choice, although for those who are most resistant, waiting for the demo might have been a better option than the one they took.
I think there have been quite a few voices of reason on both sides of the debate - Billy (BA_Midi), Chris Lee, Randy Bowser, Mod Bod - come to mind, all of whom have been honest advocates for improvement without any of the vitriol and rhetoric.
From my point of view as an X1 user, Mr. Anderton's review was right on the money. Mr. Anderton is open about his business relationships, and his credentials are well known. I like the fact that he is a long time loyal user of SONAR. I also understand why he chooses not to post on the Cakewalk forums much - what a frickin' circus.
I have no interest in joining the ruckus as I think my time is better spent learning the software and its features. I don't think Cake needs me to defend them - just offering my voice into the pool as one of those who actually likes X1.
 

Brando,  I wanted to add a comment about Craig Anderton.    Normally I'm a major skeptic when someone has something to gain (ie a profit or business motive) in support of something.
 
But, without knowing Craig personally, I must admit I was quite impressed with his comments about X1.  They mirrored some of my own and others and seemed quite balanced.  Kudos to him for that.
 
Magazines, in general, are basically whores.  They walk on eggs if they have a criticism.  So I never put much trust in their reviews.  Details are important (ie., how a certain function works, for example).  But generalities abound in magazines.
 
And, to me the best reviewers are the ones *actually using the program and most of its features* ;)
 
 

brundlefly

Minor things missing or just don't feel right -

(1)  F5.  I posted this elsewhere, but one missing feature is the ability to press F5 to choose a marker as a start time in clip properties, that's how I usually line things up where I want them. 

(2)  F8.  Another thing that is missing is the old F8 - a quick go-to end of selection.   ....

I didn't see this answered, so...
 
G is now Go > Time, which is what F5 used to do by default, but it sounds like maybe you had it custom bound to open the Markers View...? 8.5 also had a function that allowed you to enter a time in any time field by hitting F5 and choosing a Marker, which still works. It was probably an oversight that F5 was remapped to select the Smart Tool, but still has this Markers-related function when the focus is in a time field.
 
Ctrl-G is mistakenly bound to Search Next. This is a bug that will probably get fixed in the next release. But I went ahead and re-bound F7, F8, F9, F10 and Ctrl-F9/F10 to work as they have for the last 20 years, because they were too ingrained for me to re-learn on top of all the other changes. you could do this, or just bind Ctrl-G to Now=Thru so it works as intended. 

Thanks for the response, brundlefly.   F5 still works in most places, but not in the clip-start attribute of clip properties.  (The main place I used it...)  I hope that gets fixed soon.   I'll bind F8 like you said, that will help a lot.   I assumed the function was a problem, not the bind.   Sounds like an easy fix 'till the next patch.  
 
Shawn

I just installed X1 on a computer (not my main studio computer) in an effort to become acclimated with the new changes & hopefully contribute to this thread in a manner that can be better appreciated..

All it took was a couple minutes before I realized that one of my most favored features has been eliminated...

The 'Bounce to Tracks' option is missing from the edit window, which is frustrating because in 8.5.3 - I use the Windows short cut by hitting Alt, E, K... 

Due to the fact that I mix much of the time using hardware via the External Insert - 'bounce to tracks' is one of my most widely-used options - of which I always use the keyboard shortcut. 

I also use the 'Bounce to Tracks' feature often in the production stages, as it is used when bouncing soft-synths & Reason tracks via re-wire...

Now it seems that I would no longer be able to perform at the speed of which I am accustomed to... so first impressions is negative.

I will explore X1 more and post my findings!! 






 

Great post Shawn.  I agree with everything you say.

B San


I just installed X1 on a computer (not my main studio computer) in an effort to become acclimated with the new changes & hopefully contribute to this thread in a manner that can be better appreciated..

All it took was a couple minutes before I realized that one of my most favored features has been eliminated...

The 'Bounce to Tracks' option is missing from the edit window, which is frustrating because in 8.5.3 - I use the Windows short cut by hitting Alt, E, K... 

Due to the fact that I mix much of the time using hardware via the External Insert - 'bounce to tracks' is one of my most widely-used options - of which I always use the keyboard shortcut. 

I also use the 'Bounce to Tracks' feature often in the production stages, as it is used when bouncing soft-synths & Reason tracks via re-wire...

Now it seems that I would no longer be able to perform at the speed of which I am accustomed to... so first impressions is negative.

I will explore X1 more and post my findings!! 






 

You will find that its still there but relocated. For bouncing to tracks you do this from the TV TRACKs menu. To bounce to clips use the CLIPS menu. See the manual and do a search on bounce. There are a lot of ways of doing this. There may be a keybinding for this too.

@John: I will look futher.. but it's very frustrating to have seemingly mastered a program - only to find that I need to learn all over again...

It is really disenheartening that at this present moment I'd seem to know my way around Pro Tools 9 (haven't personally upgraded from 7.3) better than I would the latest version of Sonar - which has been my DAW of choice since the beginning (actually since Pro Audio 6)...

Thanks for the response, brundlefly. F5 still works in most places, but not in the clip-start attribute of clip properties. (The main place I used it...) I hope that gets fixed soon. I'll bind F8 like you said, that will help a lot. I assumed the function was a problem, not the bind. Sounds like an easy fix 'till the next patch. Shawn

Shawn,

Keep in mind that using any of the 'already bound' keys that are the new defaults in X1 will, of course, affect those.

It's kind of a catch 22.   But at least it is do-able.

You're right.  I'll try binding it to ctl-G, where it's supposed to be in X1-ese.

shawnbulen

Thanks for the response, brundlefly. F5 still works in most places, but not in the clip-start attribute of clip properties. (The main place I used it...) I hope that gets fixed soon. I'll bind F8 like you said, that will help a lot. I assumed the function was a problem, not the bind. Sounds like an easy fix 'till the next patch. Shawn

Shawn,

Keep in mind that using any of the 'already bound' keys that are the new defaults in X1 will, of course, affect those.

It's kind of a catch 22.   But at least it is do-able.

You're right.  I'll try binding it to ctl-G, where it's supposed to be in X1-ese.

At the moment, CTRL G is bound to "Go Thru" -- so if you don't need/use that often, that might be a good choice.

This is not a competition. It is a discussion. If you have a counter point, please post it. Eventually we may all find none of us had the answer. Just saying...

So true and whats happening now is what we can do together. Help each learn this new thing.

If one has a feature in 8 that is apparently gone in X1 come in here post it and lets see if we can't collectively sort it out together.

John

@John: I will look futher.. but it's very frustrating to have seemingly mastered a program - only to find that I need to learn all over again...

This is the main problem and believe me when I say I really understand this. Fortunately I believe it is worth the reeducation. I just wish I didn't have to start in grade school. I am willing to learn though.

Back in the 1980's, a co-worker of mine was reading a book.  I asked him what it was.  Coding in "C" or "C plus plus".  I had never heard of it.  This was a guy who decided to continue to self-educate on his own time, even though the company wasn't paying him to do it.
 
He was one of the first to leave that company and double his salary.
 
I never forgot that.  That's why the Reference Guide PDF is always open on my desktop whenever I have X1 up and running. 
 
And that is why I will not only have Scott Garrigus' book in my home and in my library, but on my desk, on my Nook reader, and (if available), on my Droid.  The hardcopy will usually be opened to some weird and wacky idea, and that book will go with me to my job in an unrelated field, the DMV, lunch, and the doctor's office until it is dog-eared and ragged.

Sonar 8.5 worked with Zoomtext. If I don't move any knobs or faders in X1, it works fine as well. Move a knob or a fader and the screen jumps around and the focus (where the pointer is) jumps all over the place.

John

(Note to John: be careful what you read ;) )

I'm beginning to see that.  The question is where is the real thing? Is it what was printed in the manual or is it somewhere else? Where do we go for the definitive answer?

I don't know if this view has been stated but if you guys/gals look at this new interface as no longer button driven but menu driven it may help. The thing to keep in mind is that each view has its own menu that is peculiar to it. We long time Sonar users are used to a structure that was both local and global. Here everything is local. The CV has a menu that is totally different from the TV. No buttons yet it has everything the old CV had but with some extra stuff.

The new smart tools are if you think about it not new at all but an extension and refinement of the MIDI tools introduced in 7.

With this idea in mind that the menu is where things get done we can better work in this new environment. Even the filter is a menu.

I make no comment on whether this is a good thing or not. I am simply pointing out what I think will help us grasp this new interface. I think we will need all the help we can muster.

Gee, John - you say all that almost as if you actually got/bought the program and are using it LOL.

Tell ya what, for me personally -- instead of saying something like:

"if you guys/gals look at this new interface as no longer button driven but menu driven it may help"

 - I would ask that you give thought to those of us who actually are using (or trying to use) the program and maybe have the ability to come to some conclusions, awareness, discoveries of our own.   We might say to you:  "If you guy actually used the program, it might help" ;)

I'm not trying to be disrespectful -- but I've spent a couple of days mixing in X1 and tonight TRYING to do a new tune, and finding many problems (some of which are known to many USING it already).  So to some extent when I see you suggest how others should "look at X1" without actually getting in the cockpit to drive the ship, it just bothers me a bit.

Sure my reaction at the moment might be driven by deep frustrations from the bugs I'm running into, but still I would ask that you, my friend, just step back a little and ask yourself how it might seem to some of us who really are getting in the dirt, so to speak.

I won't list the actual bugs I've run into just tonight (the list would not be pretty).  But I keep trying anyway.  I can report these things and help CW based on *first hand* experience.

But trust me, my friend, you too may find that your entire thinking and feeling may change (for better or worse, but change it might) when you actually have, use, and dig in to the program.

I hope I didn't seem like I'm venting on you too much - but I do feel I needed to say this.