Helpful ReplyAny Backup Software recommendations or advice?

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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/07 17:32:06 (permalink)
I have a NAS drive on my network, but in a different building from the DAW. I backup with Acronis and also mirror directories using Synctoy. I also back up critical data to USB drives, so I should have three copies of the most critical stuff.

Synctoy is pretty good unless the folder contains a lot of files, it then takes a long time. Plus point is it a straight copy and needs no special software to read the backup.

Intel i7 3770K @4.4GHz, 32GB RAM, 240GB SSD System disk, 2 x 2TB and 1 x 1TB (with SSD Cache) HDD. Windows 10,  Sonar Platinum. Roland Quad Capture. 
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#31
abacab
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/07 23:16:50 (permalink)
mettelus
abacab
mettelus
A quick note on Macrium Reflect I just found out replacing an SSD. The FREE version does NOT allow restoring an image to a drive other than its original source. The retail version does. Although I have always restored to the original disk without issues on the free version, that loophole makes the image worthless in the event of catastrophic failure of the SSD using the free version.

Luckily I did a preemptive strike on the SSD failure and Samsung's Data Migration worked like a charm, BUT that requires the source disk in tact. All authorizations and junctions took (Win7), even though only the two SSDs were connected to the computer.



Are you saying you that could not restore to a replacement drive with Macrium Free after a drive hardware failure?




Correct, and it seems to be baked into the image as well. I pulled the old SSD, put in a new, and there is an option to apply the image but only in the paid version. I am not sure if there is an out to that if the SSD is already gone (both the image itself and recovery disk seem to have "free" baked into them). After cloning the original, Reflect says the last two images done with the old SSD do not match the installed hardware.
 
I am not sure if it is possible to upgrade Reflect after the imaged SSD fails.




The Macrium Reflect Free version DOES allow restoring an image to a drive other than it's original source. I used the WinPE recovery stick.
 
As I stated earlier, I would attempt a system restore to an alternate drive using Macrium Reflect Free v6.3.
 
I am breathing easier now, because everything worked as hoped.
 
I took a backup image of my SSD drive (system) and restored it to a secondary internal HDD, then booted my Win 10 system from that drive. 
 
I used the WinPE 10 USB stick that I had created after installing Macrium to boot the system into recovery mode.
 
Then just selected the image to restore from, and then selected the target drive.  Everything worked fine.
 
Macrium Reflect Free has my recommendation!

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#32
mettelus
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 05:20:06 (permalink)
That is odd, I am using 6.3 as well and booted from the DVD, but am on Win7. I will have to revisit this, since my system was still remembering the removed SSD until the system said "System Recovery is turned off." When I checked options in there, it had two C drives listed, so I removed the old and set it to the new one.
 
I did just check Reflect, and the images of the old drives are now valid, so I suspect the system remembering that drive may have been a part of it.
 
Initially the new SSD was also not formatted, so when I get a chance will boot off the DVD and see if I can see all images now.

ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
#33
abacab
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 11:24:51 (permalink)
mettelus
That is odd, I am using 6.3 as well and booted from the DVD, but am on Win7. I will have to revisit this, since my system was still remembering the removed SSD until the system said "System Recovery is turned off." When I checked options in there, it had two C drives listed, so I removed the old and set it to the new one.
 
I did just check Reflect, and the images of the old drives are now valid, so I suspect the system remembering that drive may have been a part of it.
 
Initially the new SSD was also not formatted, so when I get a chance will boot off the DVD and see if I can see all images now.




I will also add that I am on a UEFI BIOS and my 250GB SSD system drive is GPT partition style.
 
Macrium allows you to choose from several WinPE versions, so I went with the latest which is WinPE 10, which is the default for Windows 8 and higher.  It looks like Windows 7 may be limited to building one of the older versions.  I see that Windows PE 3.1 rescue media is based on Windows 7.
 
The HDD that I restored to is a WD 1TB 7200 rpm SATA drive.  It had two MBR partitions, which I had to delete before beginning the restore.  After the restore, I had my GPT boot partition on my WD drive, and was easily able to select it for boot directly from my BIOS.  Windows 10 booted, and even showed that is was still activated, so it didn't even blink. 
 
However running my system from a spinning drive was noticeably slower, so I couldn't wait to get back to running from my SSD! 
 
I was about to upgrade to the full version of Macrium, so I'm glad this test worked for me!

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#34
BobF
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 12:47:20 (permalink)
abacab
mettelus
abacab
mettelus
A quick note on Macrium Reflect I just found out replacing an SSD. The FREE version does NOT allow restoring an image to a drive other than its original source. The retail version does. Although I have always restored to the original disk without issues on the free version, that loophole makes the image worthless in the event of catastrophic failure of the SSD using the free version.

Luckily I did a preemptive strike on the SSD failure and Samsung's Data Migration worked like a charm, BUT that requires the source disk in tact. All authorizations and junctions took (Win7), even though only the two SSDs were connected to the computer.



Are you saying you that could not restore to a replacement drive with Macrium Free after a drive hardware failure?




Correct, and it seems to be baked into the image as well. I pulled the old SSD, put in a new, and there is an option to apply the image but only in the paid version. I am not sure if there is an out to that if the SSD is already gone (both the image itself and recovery disk seem to have "free" baked into them). After cloning the original, Reflect says the last two images done with the old SSD do not match the installed hardware.
 
I am not sure if it is possible to upgrade Reflect after the imaged SSD fails.




The Macrium Reflect Free version DOES allow restoring an image to a drive other than it's original source. I used the WinPE recovery stick.
 
As I stated earlier, I would attempt a system restore to an alternate drive using Macrium Reflect Free v6.3.
 
I am breathing easier now, because everything worked as hoped.
 
I took a backup image of my SSD drive (system) and restored it to a secondary internal HDD, then booted my Win 10 system from that drive. 
 
I used the WinPE 10 USB stick that I had created after installing Macrium to boot the system into recovery mode.
 
Then just selected the image to restore from, and then selected the target drive.  Everything worked fine.
 
Macrium Reflect Free has my recommendation!




I was using ATI when I did my first conversion to SSD.  It failed flatly.  I loaded Reflect FREE and completed the process without problems.  Shortly thereafter, I purchased a Reflect 4 pack.
 
I like the interface and workflow in Reflect better too.

Bob  --
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#35
abacab
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 13:09:06 (permalink)
BobF
 
I like the interface and workflow in Reflect better too.




Bob, I gave to agree.  I have used several other imaging programs over the years, and I have to say that I like Reflect the best so far.  For one, they have the most complete user guide and knowledge base that I have seen.  Another is that the included WinPE build wizard is painless to build the recovery environment with.
 
I have Reflect set up to image my SSD system drive once a day to an external USB 3.0 drive.  That takes less than 30 mins, and I can keep on working as it runs in the background.  I also have it scheduled once a week to image my secondary drive partitions, which includes all of my Cakewalk content, my sample libraries, and archived installers.

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#36
BobF
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 13:29:19 (permalink)
abacab
BobF
 
I like the interface and workflow in Reflect better too.




Bob, I gave to agree.  I have used several other imaging programs over the years, and I have to say that I like Reflect the best so far.  For one, they have the most complete user guide and knowledge base that I have seen.  Another is that the included WinPE build wizard is painless to build the recovery environment with.
 
I have Reflect set up to image my SSD system drive once a day to an external USB 3.0 drive.  That takes less than 30 mins, and I can keep on working as it runs in the background.  I also have it scheduled once a week to image my secondary drive partitions, which includes all of my Cakewalk content, my sample libraries, and archived installers.




I have scheduled backups that run every night:
- Weekly full system image, incrementals each night between fulls (USB3)
- Weekly full non-system image (includes projects), incrementals each night between fulls (USB3)
- Additional Weekly full Project image, incrementals each night between fulls (NAS)
 
I manually kick off an image of my Samples tree when I feel like I need to
 
The Recovery image is on a thumb drive, periodically tested for integrity.  It lives in a fire box inside a fire safe.
 
I rotate drives thru the dock such that I have at least 3 months available.  When I recycle a pool drive, I copy the newest images from that drive to another drive that lives inside a fire box, which is inside a fire safe.
 
The rigor and consistency were implemented after reading bitflipper's horror story.

Bob  --
Angels are crying because truth has died ...
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#37
abacab
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 13:55:25 (permalink)
Now that sounds like a plan, Bob!

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#38
polarbear
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 18:23:14 (permalink)
After my recent format and reinstall I set up Acronis and bought a 5TB USB3.0 drive. It creates drive images with incremental updates (keeps the last 5) of all 3 of my internal drives (C: OS, D: Samples, E: Projects) as 3 separate scheduled drive backups... I haven't looked at it since it started... I'd like to assume it's working haha. Eventually I'll get some solution for backing up my backups. (I love computers).

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#39
abacab
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 18:31:00 (permalink)
polarbear
After my recent format and reinstall I set up Acronis and bought a 5TB USB3.0 drive. It creates drive images with incremental updates (keeps the last 5) of all 3 of my internal drives (C: OS, D: Samples, E: Projects) as 3 separate scheduled drive backups... I haven't looked at it since it started... I'd like to assume it's working haha. Eventually I'll get some solution for backing up my backups. (I love computers).




It never hurts to at least make sure that you can test boot into the standalone recovery environment, and access the stored images.  If you can't, it's easier to fix now before your computer breaks and you really need those images.
 
It is also a good idea to actually perform a test restore onto a spare drive, just to make sure that it works as planned, and you know the process before you really need it in a crunch.
 
I don't bother with incrementals, because it complicates the restore process.  I stick with full images only, which is simple if you have enough external drive space.  That way you only need one image file to complete a restore with.

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#40
polarbear
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/08 19:18:03 (permalink)
Yeah it's on my to-do list haha

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#41
TheSteven
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/09 02:12:06 (permalink)
Just got my free upgrade to Acronis 2018  (under my subscription plan)
[font="'helvetica neue', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 18px"]
What's new
    • New! Backup Statistics and Activity graphically represents content of a backup, provides statistics for backed-up file categories, such as documents, photos, videos, music, and others. Backup activity streams allow you to track history of backup operations starting from a backup creation, the operation statuses, and to analyze the statistics for successfully backed-up data.
 
    • Improved Media Builder to create WinPE media by using Windows Recovery Environment without downloading the additional component—Windows ADK or Windows AIK (up to 6 GB). You can customize your media in Advanced mode, or use the predetermined settings of Simple mode.
 
    • New! Active Protection Dashboard monitors how many potentially risky processes have been flagged, and the number of files duplicated in cache to protect them from the risky processes. The dashboard provides statistics for blocked, trusted processes and allows you to manage a permission list so your trusted applications could run as normal.
 
    • Improved Active Protection compatibility with Windows Defender and other third-party antivirus software.
 
    • Improved Clone disk utility—You can clone disk on an active Windows system without having to use bootable media. By using the volume shadow copy service (VSS), Acronis True Image allows you to create a snapshot of the active partition and boot from the new disk.
 
    • New! Conversion to Virtual Machine—Convert Acronis backup files to the Microsoft Virtual Hard Drive format to ensure the system will boot starting a virtual machine with Hyper-V. You can also mount a .vhd(x) file as a virtual hard drive.
 
    • New! Faster file and system recovery with the enabled WAN optimization option that increases download speed from Acronis Cloud data centers.
 
    • New! Faster Incremental Backup for disk and partition backups with Acronis Changed Block Tracker (CBT). The Volume Tracker reduces the amount of time taken to perform incremental or differential images by monitoring the changes to an image in real-time mode.
 
    • New! Laptop power setting allows you to pause backup while working on battery to save the battery power. The paused backups will continue automatically after connecting power adapter.
 
  • Usability and other improvements:
    • Mobile devices are available in the backup source list.
    • Access to backup shortcut menu with right-click.
    • Progress bar was updated with application window blurring.
    • Fixed issue with the search dialog that did not provide functionality of recovering several files from different backup versions.
    • Fixed issue with possibility to move a backup from a password-protected network to a local drive or to another share.

Known issues

  • [TI-109637] Windows Defender is paused after installing Acronis True Image 2018, until Windows is restarted.
  • [TI-92941] Running mobile backup prevents the computer from going to sleep.

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#42
mettelus
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/13 04:51:50 (permalink)
abacab
mettelus
That is odd, I am using 6.3 as well and booted from the DVD, but am on Win7. I will have to revisit this, since my system was still remembering the removed SSD until the system said "System Recovery is turned off." When I checked options in there, it had two C drives listed, so I removed the old and set it to the new one.
 
I did just check Reflect, and the images of the old drives are now valid, so I suspect the system remembering that drive may have been a part of it.
 
Initially the new SSD was also not formatted, so when I get a chance will boot off the DVD and see if I can see all images now.




I will also add that I am on a UEFI BIOS and my 250GB SSD system drive is GPT partition style.
 
Macrium allows you to choose from several WinPE versions, so I went with the latest which is WinPE 10, which is the default for Windows 8 and higher.  It looks like Windows 7 may be limited to building one of the older versions.  I see that Windows PE 3.1 rescue media is based on Windows 7.
 
The HDD that I restored to is a WD 1TB 7200 rpm SATA drive.  It had two MBR partitions, which I had to delete before beginning the restore.  After the restore, I had my GPT boot partition on my WD drive, and was easily able to select it for boot directly from my BIOS.  Windows 10 booted, and even showed that is was still activated, so it didn't even blink. 
 
However running my system from a spinning drive was noticeably slower, so I couldn't wait to get back to running from my SSD! 
 
I was about to upgrade to the full version of Macrium, so I'm glad this test worked for me!




I finally remembered to boot from the Reflect DVD and all of the images are visible and able to be restored. A couple things I did NOT do when I first booted it with the new SSD was 1) verify the SSD was formatted (I think that it wasn't, but not sure), and 2) I never did anything with the BIOS, so the new SSD wasn't specifically verified as being seen by the system. IIRC Reflect could see it, but would not restore the image initially.
 
Samsung's Data Migration cloned without issues, but restore points were disabled since two "C:" drives were allocated to it. That was the only change I made. My machine will also not enable RAPID, but not really an issue for me. Ironically, the benchmark software in Samsung's Magician saw the new drive as slower, but it is better throughput due to bad blocks on the old one. I guess it does a very focused test and just happened to hit an area of the old on that was still good (I got about a 10% reduction in the old SSD over a period of 6 years, so it did a lot of grunt work without complaint).
 
 

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#43
sergiosimoes
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/13 14:27:22 (permalink)
I use Macrium free but I don't do regular backups. I copy my project files to external USB drives any time I have something new done. And, although I have now some sample libraries (from Komplete f.i.) they are recent acquisitions and I never installed most of them yet.

I used to save image files of my (whole) system drive but I stopped doing this regularly because I believed that the licenses and activations would not be saved properly this way, and this would be the main reason for imaging a system drive IMO. I mean... OK... it's a pain in the b**t having to reinstall everything but it's not the end of the world. Losing any licenses...well... this raises the problem to another level.

Having said this, coincidentally, last weekend my c: drive crashed!!!... and I kept most of my software activations there. I restored an old image I made, more than a year ago, into a new SSD drive recently installed (and still mostly empty) and what was my surprise when I saw that many of my licenses where still active!!! All my Waves activations, for instance, even for plugins that I bought some days ago!!! (I had to run windows update to reinstall the latest control center and it took a while, but not a big deal). Also my Arturia plugs where all activated. Of course the plugins are not installed... but the activations are there somehow. I don't know how this works... maybe there is some redundancy in the registration/activation system and the related files are copied in multiple places. Anyway, I'm glad the problem is not as big as I thought at first.

I had no time yet to check all my activations (I have a lot). I reinstalled the latest Sonar release and activated it without problems. I'll take notes about what apps loose the activation and I can report it later if any one is interested.

And I DEFINITELY will start doing regular imaging on my system drive again.

In the beginning there was the "MASCHINE"
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#44
abacab
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2017/09/13 14:38:52 (permalink)
sergiosimoes
 
All my Waves activations, for instance, even for plugins that I bought some days ago!!! (I had to run windows update to reinstall the latest control center and it took a while, but not a big deal). Also my Arturia plugs where all activated. Of course the plugins are not installed... but the activations are there somehow. I don't know how this works... maybe there is some redundancy in the registration/activation system and the related files are copied in multiple places.

 
I'm guessing that the most logical reason for that is if you had originally registered and activated online.  Then the activation software matches up your computer ID, and your user ID, and looks it up online.  So likely just need to install the plugs, and off you go!
 

And I DEFINITELY will start doing regular imaging on my system drive again.




That's a good plan!

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#45
Voda La Void
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/29 02:30:20 (permalink)
How about throttled upload speeds?  Online speed tests confirm over 5 Mbps upload with my ISP.  But..I was trying to use my Godaddy web space to backup my audio folder, and I knew it would take a chunk of time, but I couldn't FTP over 1 Mbps.  On top of that the connection kept dropping and auto reconnecting.  What a freaking mess.  I canceled that whole operation and have been wondering what to do ever since.
 
dlesaux
Here's what I do! I have a 1TB USB drive where I installed my OneDrive directory. I use a free program call FreeFileSync that allows me to mirror my project files to my USB drive which in turn mirrors to OneDrive. Initial backup takes a while since it's mirroring the whole drive but afterwards, it only updates files that have changed. I backup every day and it takes about minute.
 
I've always followed the rule, if your data doesn't exist in three places, it doesn't exist. This method meets that intent.
 
As usual, YMMV..




I like this approach.  How does the mirroring work?  I guess I'm always worried it's going to miss Cakewalk .wa~ audio files and etc.  In a nightmare scenario, could it mirror the other direction and remove files from my PC or replace them with older files from the USB drive?
 
My DAW is offline, permanently.  So I am thinking of using your approach to backup to the USB drive, and then maybe once a week or so move the drive to my network PC and backup to OneDrive or something similar while I sleep.  
 
 
 
 

Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
#46
raisindot
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/30 13:51:05 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/01/30 16:09:50
I have a two phrase strategy. 
 
I manually copy all folders to an external 1 or 2 gig drive. I don't want to have to trust some kind of proprietary softrware program to restore folders.
 
Then I use the free Macrium product (recommended by a person on this forum) to do an image file of my C drive and create a recovery flash drive in case of a system-wide failure. 
 
I'll never the use cloud for anything other than temporary backup. A few days ago my cable was done for a few days and I was Internet-less. Had I needed to get something from the Cloud, I would have been SOL. I also don't trust the security of Cloud-based storage. If hackers can get into CIA and DOD databases, it can't be that difficult for them to get into cloud based servers. 
#47
Voda La Void
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/31 14:54:43 (permalink)
raisindot
I have a two phrase strategy. 
 
I manually copy all folders to an external 1 or 2 gig drive. I don't want to have to trust some kind of proprietary softrware program to restore folders.
 
Then I use the free Macrium product (recommended by a person on this forum) to do an image file of my C drive and create a recovery flash drive in case of a system-wide failure. 
 
I'll never the use cloud for anything other than temporary backup. A few days ago my cable was done for a few days and I was Internet-less. Had I needed to get something from the Cloud, I would have been SOL. I also don't trust the security of Cloud-based storage. If hackers can get into CIA and DOD databases, it can't be that difficult for them to get into cloud based servers. 




I guess I don't understand the problem with cloud backup.  It's just another layer.  If it's inaccessible for some period of time, it's no issue at all because backups are only needed in the event of a catastrophe. If something terrible happened and my local backup solution was destroyed by fire, earthquake, theft, or virus, I'm not sure that I'm bothered too much if the cloud is temporarily unavailable to me for a couple of days via an outage.   
 
Now, security, I get that.  So, maybe if that's an issue you just backup your studio stuff?  I mean, maybe hackers will like my music and make me famous?  

Voda La Void...experiments in disturbing frequencies...
#48
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/31 15:11:30 (permalink)
Buy a Synology server with RAID 5 disks. Backup to that. Buy another Synology server for your mother or girlfriend and that's your off site backup sorted. Not only that but you will get your own personal VPN (no subscriptions, it's all built in). It is an investment but the costs is reasonable.
#49
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/31 15:17:56 (permalink)
polarbear
After my recent format and reinstall I set up Acronis and bought a 5TB USB3.0 drive. It creates drive images with incremental updates (keeps the last 5) of all 3 of my internal drives (C: OS, D: Samples, E: Projects) as 3 separate scheduled drive backups... I haven't looked at it since it started... I'd like to assume it's working haha. Eventually I'll get some solution for backing up my backups. (I love computers).



abacab
It never hurts to at least make sure that you can test boot into the standalone recovery environment, and access the stored images.  If you can't, it's easier to fix now before your computer breaks and you really need those images.
 
It is also a good idea to actually perform a test restore onto a spare drive, just to make sure that it works as planned, and you know the process before you really need it in a crunch.
 
I don't bother with incrementals, because it complicates the restore process.  I stick with full images only, which is simple if you have enough external drive space.  That way you only need one image file to complete a restore with.


You should (I hesitate to say "must" as it will come across harsh and forceful) have a backup and restore strategy. That means testing, otherwise it is Russian roulette.
#50
Voda La Void
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/31 18:53:13 (permalink)
CakeAlexSHere
Buy a Synology server with RAID 5 disks. Backup to that. Buy another Synology server for your mother or girlfriend and that's your off site backup sorted. Not only that but you will get your own personal VPN (no subscriptions, it's all built in). It is an investment but the costs is reasonable.



I'm nowhere near smart enough to implement that.  However, maybe I can pay someone to set it up for me in the future, when I'm not broke.  It's a cool idea, I like it.

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#51
CakeAlexSHere
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/01/31 21:06:27 (permalink)
^^

Understood but It's not that hard and I'm not that smart... I just follow the instructions mostly.
#52
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/02 01:27:23 (permalink)
Here is the best generic backup advice anyone will ever give. Don't use one.
 
Instead use two. Use a backup software (acronis is my goto) to image or simply clone your system drive and (if you have a mind to configure this way) your plugin drive to external/portable drives. Then take those off site and redo the images once or twice per year. Then use a cloud based solution (Carbonite or similar) to constantly archive your data folders.

Local software based solutions are absolutely great for imaging system drives and drives that don't change much. But I've never found a local software based backup solution that could do ongoing scheduled data backups long term without regular maintenance/attention. IOW if you try to use a local software based backup solution only, it WILL fail you eventually. But if you're only doing imaging with it, there is nothing better. So image your static drives (system and plugin) once or twice a year and keep the backups at work i.e. off site.
 
Then get a cloud based account and configure it to keep constant backups of all your data folders. This combination covers all the bases and gets you as close to bulletproof as you'll ever be.

Now I realize there are still lots of people who believe a DAW machine should not be constantly connected to a network or the internet. Those people are what I like to call wrong. They used to be right. But its not 2004 anymore and things are different now.

 
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#53
igiwigi
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/02 11:44:00 (permalink)
Don't waste your money
 
Win 10 backup is great and works for me and It is only a matter of going to  files and folders and choosing backup.
I BACK UP AFTER A MAJOR UPDATE
Do not bother with online backup. get yourself a decent terrabyte usb drive  and backup and put in a draw ready for any mishaps.
I have a 2 terrabyte usb for my computers and a terrabyte drive for my whole music collection of flac files,a drive for my Genos and midi files,style etc.
A Breeze and big brother cannot watch you>
 
"what if your isp goes down you cannot jump on a cloud" "WHAT IF"!!!
#54
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/02 13:13:51 (permalink)
igiwigi
I BACK UP AFTER A MAJOR UPDATE
Not to pick nits but most pros would probably tell you its a better idea to backup BEFORE the update.
 
Do not bother with online backup. get yourself a decent terrabyte usb drive  and backup and put in a draw ready for any mishaps.
This would be great advice if everyone in the world was like you. But alas its been my experience that most people are not like you. Most people treat manual backups the same way they treat their gym membership. They promise themselves they'll do it every week. Then it becomes every other week. Then it becomes every month or four. Next thing you know they have a major system failure and realize they haven't done any kind of backup in two years or more. Human nature thing I'm afraid. Saw it more times than I care to count when I was doing IT work.

Which is why cloud based solutions are better advice for most people. They set it and forget it and it works and it tends to keep working. Easy peasy. 
 
 
"what if your isp goes down you cannot jump on a cloud" "WHAT IF"!!!

What if your house burns down? What if? Most people have multiple ways to connect to the internet. Almost all cellphones can become a wifi hotspot these days. Most people don't have a second house with exact copies of everything that's in the first house. Just sayin' 



 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
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#55
azslow3
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/02 14:36:23 (permalink)
JohanSebatianGremlin
igiwigi
I BACK UP AFTER A MAJOR UPDATE
Not to pick nits but most pros would probably tell you its a better idea to backup BEFORE the update.

That is really good advise
 

Do not bother with online backup. get yourself a decent terrabyte usb drive  and backup and put in a draw ready for any mishaps.
This would be great advice if everyone in the world was like you. But alas its been my experience that most people are not like you.

It depends from the part of the world. More precisely from the place you are. If I decide to do online backups, that will be yearly backup. I mean it will take a year till it is complete
 
Many colleagues are using NAS based backups and are happy. Backups to shared network folders are not good these days, any cryptovirus in local network will void it (the same danger exists for USB disks backup, especially when they are permanently connected for scheduled backups). But incremental backups with specialized software on NAS, without direct access to the files, is not so bad choice.
 
I agree that backup at the same location has weak points (house is burned or raped). So periodic "backup of backup" is a good idea.
 
For small important files cloud based approach is good. But I do not believe "most people" have sufficient internet connection for "backup all" case (and who has, sometimes also has unmanageable amount of data... f.e. I still think how to backup 170TB  of garbage currently collected on my servers).

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#56
JohanSebatianGremlin
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/02 17:52:32 (permalink)
azslow3
It depends from the part of the world. More precisely from the place you are. If I decide to do online backups, that will be yearly backup. I mean it will take a year till it is complete
Good point but perhaps I should have clarified a bit. The recommendation for online backups is always (or at least should always) be predicated on the assumption that sufficient bandwidth is available.
 
Its certainly true (and I myself learned first hand the hard way) that there are still vast portions of real estate in the US that lack any kind of viable broadband option. But you tend to find that most of that real estate is what is known as 'the fly-over states'. Its called fly-over because most people don't go there but rather fly over it while going to the population centers. Which is why I used the word most instead of the word all when I said described the number of people that cloud based is good for.

And yeah, before anyone calls me out on it I realize there are people from all over the world on this forum. But its been my experience that the US is far from the only country where the population centers have multiple broadband options available and less so in the sparsely populated bad lands.

The thing that I don't like about NAS based (or any kind of local based) rolling backups is that it requires both software and hardware to remain trouble free. Either one has an issue and the backups break. And often, no one on site has any idea their backups are broken until they need to do restore and can't. Seen it many times.

With online backups, the software is simpler and there is no hardware component. Or rather the only hardware component is the internet connection. When your backup NAS down in the basement breaks, you often figure it out two years later when you need to do a restore and can't. When your internet breaks, you find out 57 milliseconds later when half the building starts yelling. Long term, cloud based is more reliable and in my experience the difference in reliability is night and day.

But cloud based should only be used for active data. If you've got 57TB of garbage, that's not active data, that's... well... garbage. If you want a backup of it, buy hard drives, make copies and store them off site because chances are 56.98TB of it hasn't changed since Truman was in office and won't change ever. Use physical media to make one or two copies of static archive data and keep them off site. Done. Use cloud based for everything new that comes in after and even a modest broadband connection will be more than sufficient. Even in the age of 24bit/96kHz audio and 4k video.
 
 And if you're living out the sticks with no broadband, then either learn to actively verify your on-site backups every month or hire someone who will do it for you.
 

 
If gear was the determining factor, we would all have a shelf full of Grammies and a pocket full of change.  -microapp
 
i7, 32gb RAM, Win10 64bit, RME UFX
#57
sharke
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/04 00:52:26 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby abacab 2018/02/04 04:04:56
I've never understood people who pooh-pooh the idea of cloud backups. The argument is usually a straw man one - "you can't rely on some other company to store your data." I don't think anyone's suggesting that cloud backups are a complete backup solution, it's supplementary to a physical backup. If you omit either physical or cloud backups, you're really leaving yourself open to catastrophe. You could have a hard drive backup in every drawer in your house and it wouldn't do you a lick of good if the house burned down. And you can use the best cloud backup system in the world but if the company goes down or something happens to their servers and all of their backups, well you're screwed there as well. Having both physical and cloud backups increases your security exponentially, much more than the sum of their parts. I guess all you have to worry about then is nuclear war, or the incredibly miniscule (almost negligible) chance that both backups will fail at the same time. 
 
Not sure I'd worry about getting my latest 10 minutes of bleepy synth based nonsense finished in the event of a nuclear war anyway. I'd be too busy puking bright yellow radiation vomit or something. 

James
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#58
BobF
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/04 21:07:46 (permalink)
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.

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#59
mettelus
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Re: Any Backup Software recommendations or advice? 2018/02/05 05:23:14 (permalink)
BobF
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.




I think that holds true for most folks. Even with 200Mb/s it would take over 11 hours to upload 1TB. For the price of such a connection you could buy a HDD drive each month. Some hosts charge for bandwidth, so a company using a cloud service would most likely pay more there unless they used incremental backups.
 
A chunk of marketing shifted to "scare tactics" in the late 80s, but a lot of the scenarios used are truly rare. One could simply encrypt an external HDD and store it semi-remotely to achieve the same thing.
 

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#60
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