mettelus
 
One could simply encrypt an external HDD and store it semi-remotely to achieve the same thing.

The easiest way to do this is to use BitLocker in Windows (8.1/10) Pro to do full drive encryption.  Then it's a simple matter of storing the drive off-site.  I use a WD Elements 1TB portable USB drive with BitLocker, and it works great. 
 
A beginner's guide to BitLocker, Windows' built-in encryption tool
https://www.pcworld.com/article/2308725/encryption/a-beginners-guide-to-bitlocker-windows-built-in-encryption-tool.html
 
How to Use BitLocker Without a Trusted Platform Module (TPM)
https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/6229/how-to-use-bitlocker-on-drives-without-tpm/

mettelus

BobF
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.

I think that holds true for most folks. Even with 200Mb/s it would take over 11 hours to upload 1TB. For the price of such a connection you could buy a HDD drive each month. Some hosts charge for bandwidth, so a company using a cloud service would most likely pay more there unless they used incremental backups.
 
A chunk of marketing shifted to "scare tactics" in the late 80s, but a lot of the scenarios used are truly rare. One could simply encrypt an external HDD and store it semi-remotely to achieve the same thing.
 

This is not really a valid objection these days. CrashPlan, for instance, offers to send you a hard drive to get your initial backup to them if it's too large to upload. Their backup app will encrypt it and save it on the hard drive then you just mail it back to them.  
 
Storing a backup HD yourself "semi remotely" has its problems. Not everyone has a "semi remote" location, and even if they do, it's highly unlikely that this is as secure as a reputable backup service which pays good money to keep its backup locations safe and secure (plus they keep a backup of their backup servers should anything happen to the first one). And then there's the inconvenience of having to retrieve your "remote" backup drive when you need to back up more stuff onto it. The beauty of a cloud based backup is that once you get that initial backup up and running, the app makes continual incremental backups as changes are made to files (like Acronis does). CrashPlan also keeps a version history of your files so you can roll back to an earlier version at any time. I cannot begin to stress how useful this is, if for instance you take a project in a direction that you regret later and want to roll back to how it was a couple of weeks ago. 

BobF

sharke

mettelus

BobF
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.

I think that holds true for most folks. Even with 200Mb/s it would take over 11 hours to upload 1TB. For the price of such a connection you could buy a HDD drive each month. Some hosts charge for bandwidth, so a company using a cloud service would most likely pay more there unless they used incremental backups.
 
A chunk of marketing shifted to "scare tactics" in the late 80s, but a lot of the scenarios used are truly rare. One could simply encrypt an external HDD and store it semi-remotely to achieve the same thing.
 

This is not really a valid objection these days. CrashPlan, for instance, offers to send you a hard drive to get your initial backup to them if it's too large to upload. Their backup app will encrypt it and save it on the hard drive then you just mail it back to them.  
 
Storing a backup HD yourself "semi remotely" has its problems. Not everyone has a "semi remote" location, and even if they do, it's highly unlikely that this is as secure as a reputable backup service which pays good money to keep its backup locations safe and secure (plus they keep a backup of their backup servers should anything happen to the first one). And then there's the inconvenience of having to retrieve your "remote" backup drive when you need to back up more stuff onto it. The beauty of a cloud based backup is that once you get that initial backup up and running, the app makes continual incremental backups as changes are made to files (like Acronis does). CrashPlan also keeps a version history of your files so you can roll back to an earlier version at any time. I cannot begin to stress how useful this is, if for instance you take a project in a direction that you regret later and want to roll back to how it was a couple of weeks ago. 

I say it is a valid objection.  My internet connection is 3.5Mb down, .75Mb up.  Even if I use the mail-in option to get started, incrementals will all but totally consume my pipe unless I'm not really doing anything.
 
Then when it's time to restore/recover, I have the pipe to deal with again.  My OS partition is approx 74G right now.  Care to guess how long that takes to download?  Hell, when I run out of pause options for Win10 updates my network is crippled until MS gets their fix.  And I'm not the only one using this pathetic pipe.
 
If I'm going to run to the post office, I might as well run to the bank and stick a drive in a safe deposit box instead.
 
If you have the bandwidth, Cloud might be a great option.  We don't all have the bandwidth though.
 
We also have to see how net neutrality (lack of) ends up playing out too.

With CrashPlan For Home you don't back up in real time, it does it once every 24 hours. I think you can set it to turn your computer off after the backup as well, so you can go to bed and leave it running and it will shut down automatically. So no need to clog up your bandwidth when you're awake. 
 
Like I said, this is just a "last resort" backup which is there if your physical backups fail or are destroyed. I'm sure that if that happened, you'd be happy to have it there even if it meant you had to download your stuff all night to get it. 

abacab

BobF
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.

OK. I hate to be 'that guy', but I just gotta ask...
 
Do you actually have a 300baud connection in 2018, or is that just an expression for slow azz internet service?  I understand some folks live in remote areas without broadband internet.
 
The reason I ask is that I worked as a network tech back in the 80's, and that 300 speed was low on the list even back in those days, with 1200/2400/4800 being more common.
 
I seem to recall that dial-up modems reliably reached speed of 28.8-33.6kbit/s over conventional telephone lines in the 90's.

That was a slight exaggeration.
 
The real numbers are 3.5Mb x .75Mb
 

BobF

abacab

BobF
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.

OK. I hate to be 'that guy', but I just gotta ask...
 
Do you actually have a 300baud connection in 2018, or is that just an expression for slow azz internet service?  I understand some folks live in remote areas without broadband internet....
 
 

That was a slight exaggeration.
 
The real numbers are 3.5Mb x .75Mb
 

One thing to consider is that is about as fast as you can upload to a cloud service anyway, it seems.  It took me a day and a half to transfer 72 GB of audio and I have repeatedly tested my upload speed at 10 Mbps - didn't matter, all I managed was 700 to 800 Kbps, or less.  So it might max you out, but you're not too far off from what you'd be limited to anyways.  
 
Of course, I am not to be confused with an expert here.  Upload speed seems to be an issue with cloud storage in general, and Google Drive seemed to be listed among the fastest, so disappointment is inevitable.  Maybe some techy folks know how to speed that up.  I sure don't.  

Voda La Void

BobF

abacab

BobF
My primary objection to Cloud backups is my 300baud internet connection.

OK. I hate to be 'that guy', but I just gotta ask...
 
Do you actually have a 300baud connection in 2018, or is that just an expression for slow azz internet service?  I understand some folks live in remote areas without broadband internet....
 
 

That was a slight exaggeration.
 
The real numbers are 3.5Mb x .75Mb
 

One thing to consider is that is about as fast as you can upload to a cloud service anyway, it seems.  It took me a day and a half to transfer 72 GB of audio and I have repeatedly tested my upload speed at 10 Mbps - didn't matter, all I managed was 700 to 800 Kbps, or less.  So it might max you out, but you're not too far off from what you'd be limited to anyways.  
 
Of course, I am not to be confused with an expert here.  Upload speed seems to be an issue with cloud storage in general, and Google Drive seemed to be listed among the fastest, so disappointment is inevitable.  Maybe some techy folks know how to speed that up.  I sure don't.  

One thing I like about dropbox is that you can configure the sync rate in terms of bandwidth consumption.  Maybe others do this too.
 
That may be the max the cloud will accept, but it leaves me NOTHING for other uses or users.  Still, I can see Cloud backup as useful for relatively small volumes of creative output.

BobF

abacab
 
 
So depending on your needs, choose your ISP and your storage hosts wisely... YMMV! 

 
Choice of ISP?  Now THAT is FUNNY!!!   No, wait ... THAT is SADly not possible here.
 
There are MANY, MANY advantages to living where I live that far outweigh the uselessness of Cloud backup services though

Much more that bandwidth concerns, I'd be concerned about where exactly my data was going, who exactly has direct access to the server it would reside on, and of course I'm sure they have no issues with Meltdown or Spectre, where someone who leases a slice of space on the same server might be reading the internal registers of the CPU as your data is uploading. I wouldn't trust putting any of my data on some server in the sky, even if it could be completed in five seconds.  I prefer to be the one and only person who has access to it, and just make clones of it to other media on a frequent basis. I even back a lot of stuff up to my phone, so if the house were to go up in flames, or get blown to pieces by a tornado, I'll even have a good chunk of the important stuff zipped up and password protected in my pocket.

the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo

BobF

abacab
 
 
So depending on your needs, choose your ISP and your storage hosts wisely... YMMV! 

 
Choice of ISP?  Now THAT is FUNNY!!!   No, wait ... THAT is SADly not possible here.
 
There are MANY, MANY advantages to living where I live that far outweigh the uselessness of Cloud backup services though

Much more that bandwidth concerns, I'd be concerned about where exactly my data was going, who exactly has direct access to the server it would reside on, and of course I'm sure they have no issues with Meltdown or Spectre, where someone who leases a slice of space on the same server might be reading the internal registers of the CPU as your data is uploading. I wouldn't trust putting any of my data on some server in the sky, even if it could be completed in five seconds.  I prefer to be the one and only person who has access to it, and just make clones of it to other media on a frequent basis. I even back a lot of stuff up to my phone, so if the house were to go up in flames, or get blown to pieces by a tornado, I'll even have a good chunk of the important stuff zipped up and password protected in my pocket.

Well firstly, your data is thoroughly encrypted in the cloud. And secondly, I think you probably have as much chance of being burgled and having your backup drivers stolen as you have of someone gaining access to your cloud storage and decrypting it. 
 

abacab

sharke
 
Well firstly, your data is thoroughly encrypted in the cloud. And secondly, I think you probably have as much chance of being burgled and having your backup drivers stolen as you have of someone gaining access to your cloud storage and decrypting it. 
 

Exactly!  Bitflipper's tale of being burgled is a reason you should keep backups in at least 3 places!!!  The only stuff he had left was some stuff he had kept in a shoebox... 

Well I have to wonder how many folks uploading their entire hard drives to the cloud have read the entire agreements with whoever they signed up with, and did they fully understand the entire document's implications along with things like, what specific server located where on Earth does that image of your hard drive end up on? How many other copies of it exist? Who has access to all the images locally? Remotely? Who has knowledge of the inner workings of the encryption algorithms? Etc...
 
We tend to believe that high tech computer stuff is safe, until we find out that it really wasn't all along. At one time, we believed that WEP (Wired Equivalent Privacy) was just as secure as connecting a computer to a network over a wire. Now we know it can be cracked in under a minute. Then a few generations later we believed that WPA2 was ultra safe but nope, last year US-CERT issued an advisory that there are several key management vulnerabilities in WPA2, allowing for decryption, packet replay, TCP connection hijacking, and HTTP content injection. Then we find out that just about every processor on the planet has at least one, or possibly two security flaws in the hardware itself.
 
Bottom line is if there is nothing at all of any importance on your hard drive, then it probably doesn't matter. Upload it to the cloud without any encryption, because there is nothing there to be had.  I try to keep almost no important information on my seven machines here at home, because I'm quite convinced that there is no real security in computer security protocols. Only the illusion of it.  That said, I keep at least three copies of my hard drive on multiple physical backup drives, some like my NAS could be stolen along with my computer, but other copies are located elsewhere and would be my backup, backup in a worst case scenario.   ;)
 

JohanSebatianGremlin
Why would I bother? I'm not backing up gigabytes worth of other people's financial info. In fact I'm not backing up anyone's financial info. Or medical records, or anything else of significant value to anyone besides myself. 

Yes my songs are on there. But I'm reminded of a story about a Berkley student talking to a professor about how much of a pain the butt it was to copyright everything she writes. The professor asked her why she was bothering to copyright every single song she wrote. She said well if I don't someone might steal one of my songs. As you might expect, the response was honey if I were you, I'd be saying a prayer every night for someone to steal one of those songs of yours.

If some hacker wannabe in the middle east really wants one of my songs or all those pictures of our cats, they can have them. They don't even have to hack. Just ask and I'll happily send them along.

Precisely why I said this in my post above.
 
"Bottom line is if there is nothing at all of any importance on your hard drive, then it probably doesn't matter. Upload it to the cloud without any encryption, because there is nothing there to be had."

JohanSebatianGremlin

the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
 
Precisely why I said this in my post above.
 
"Bottom line is if there is nothing at all of any importance on your hard drive, then it probably doesn't matter. Upload it to the cloud without any encryption, because there is nothing there to be had."

Well I guess was just kind of confused. You did two long paragraphs making points about the perils of people not reading or understanding EULA's and how even secure technology isn't really secure. Then you kind of invalidate all of that by more or less saying that for 99.99999% of the people, none of that matters.

I guess I agree with you. But if you really feel that none of that matters for most people, why mention it at all?

Because if someone is backing up their entire hard drive to the cloud, they should be thinking about exactly what info is on that hard drive, and then all the other questions make more sense. If you are backing up a drive that has nothing but wave data on it, then it's no big deal, but if you are backing up your primary boot drive, then you should pay closer attention to what all the implications are.

the_user_formally_known_as_glennbo
Because if someone is backing up their entire hard drive to the cloud, they should be thinking about exactly what info is on that hard drive, and then all the other questions make more sense. If you are backing up a drive that has nothing but wave data on it, then it's no big deal, but if you are backing up your primary boot drive, then you should pay closer attention to what all the implications are.

Who backs up their entire hard drive to the cloud? I mean I'm sure there are those who do, but its certainly not most people. I've seen the front ends of a few different cloud-based solutions and have done installs/setups of a few for folks over the years. All those that I've seen more of less default to wanting to backup document folders only. Yep you can configure them to backup the whole drive, but you have to know what you're doing to get that setup. It probably should go without saying that most people don't know what they're doing when it comes to that sort of thing. So they click the defaults and let it go.

Now if someone is keeping a word doc in their documents folder that has every password they ever used and every credit card account number they own and their mother's maiden name and social security number yada yada yada, I would argue that's very likely to be someone that was going to be at elevated risk for identify theft long before they ever bought a computer.

I just backed up this advertising music to the cloud!  <g>

https://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13690413