jimst57
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 151
- Joined: 2005/04/01 09:24:23
- Status: offline
Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
I own Sonar Platinum for my use at home, but I bought MC7 to use at another location just for tracking. At $19.99 I figured it was a great deal and it's simple interface would work for what I needed.
I did a loopback test and found the recorded audio was not lined up with the original.
In Sonar I can adjust for this in the preferences. I realize that setting doesn't exist in MC7, but my question is if there is any way to adjust this. Maybe a .INI file or registry entry?
|
57Gregy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14404
- Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
- Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 09:23:05
(permalink)
There should be.
Doesn't pressing P on the computer keyboard bring up Preferences in MC 7?
|
jimst57
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 151
- Joined: 2005/04/01 09:24:23
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 10:06:41
(permalink)
57Gregy
There should be.
Doesn't pressing P on the computer keyboard bring up Preferences in MC 7?
I can get to Preferences. But it seems in MC7 there is no setting call Record Latency Adjustment as there is in Platinum. I was wondering if there is ANY way to do this.
|
57Gregy
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14404
- Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
- Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 10:24:29
(permalink)
What audio interface are you using?
Does the interface use ASIO drivers?
That needs to be adjusted in the interface's software.
Beyond that, someone with more experience in the new software will have to help you.
I'm shocked they took that setting out since that is one of the main complaints of newcomers ("there's a delay in the sound!!!!").
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 10:36:52
(permalink)
jimst57
I can get to Preferences. But it seems in MC7 there is no setting call Record Latency Adjustment as there is in Platinum. I was wondering if there is ANY way to do this.
No.
|
jimst57
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 151
- Joined: 2005/04/01 09:24:23
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 10:50:00
(permalink)
scook
jimst57
I can get to Preferences. But it seems in MC7 there is no setting call Record Latency Adjustment as there is in Platinum. I was wondering if there is ANY way to do this.
No.
Thanks scook. Guess if I use this software I'll have to manually adjust. @57Gregy.......What happens is that your audio interface reports its latency to your DAW and your DAW automatically adjusts so things line up. The problem is that the number that gets reported is sometimes not right on the money. You can do a "loopback test" to determine just how far off things are. So some software allows you to adjust, + or -, the reported number so that things line up exactly. The delay you're talking about, that people complain about, is similiar, but usually caused by people having buffer setting too large when trying to record.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 10:55:29
(permalink)
I am guessing the remote site may be using the software while you are not there and this is why you purchased MC7. If this is not the case and the software will only be used while your are there, you may install and use Platinum at the remote location. The license does not allow concurrent use on multiple machines but you may install the product on more than one machine as long as only one machine at a time is running SONAR.
|
jimst57
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 151
- Joined: 2005/04/01 09:24:23
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 11:50:14
(permalink)
scook
I am guessing the remote site may be using the software while you are not there and this is why you purchased MC7. If this is not the case and the software will only be used while your are there, you may install and use Platinum at the remote location. The license does not allow concurrent use on multiple machines but you may install the product on more than one machine as long as only one machine at a time is running SONAR.
Yes that's the case. I have a second recording setup at my daughter's house and it may be used sometimes when I'm not there. For $19.99 this seems like a good solution. I'm familiar with it and would use it mostly for tracking. I don't know if the $19.99 was just for me as a Sonar owner, or a special price for a time, but it seems like a great deal for someone just getting into this.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 12:25:29
(permalink)
It is an intro price, no previous purchase required and is a lot of DAW for the money.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/04 12:45:05
(permalink)
yes, it's going to be regularly $49, but even at that price it's still a LOT of DAW for the money. for $20 it's a steal!
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 06:01:18
(permalink)
You can adjust the latency under" Preferences>Audio>Driver Settings> Mixing Latency(at the bottom)", is says buffer size but there is still a lag in the time, even if you turn it down to 20 milliseconds. There shouldn't be a problem at this speed yet there still is
I used my audio interface "Scarlett 212" by Focusrite and figured that the latency control on that would compensate for this problem but no it didn't effect it in the least, which I find to be very strange, it should work
Still having a hard time getting a midi keyboard to work on this, I get it to work and then it won't work. Have to keep experimenting with it and see if I can figure it out.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 14:22:00
(permalink)
Adjusting the buffer size is not the same thing. Most drivers do not accurately report the number of samples used. SONAR has an entry which allows one to add/subtract samples to account for the error.
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 15:14:03
(permalink)
scook
Adjusting the buffer size is not the same thing. Most drivers do not accurately report the number of samples used. SONAR has an entry which allows one to add/subtract samples to account for the error.
Yeah, your right. I really love the sound of this software but this latency issue makes this software unusable, which is too bad because the sound of the instruments is superb
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 15:25:30
(permalink)
Latency has nothing to do with MC7, in the case of ASIO it is set in the client supplied by the audio interface manufacturer. I usually set my interface to 128 samples which results in a round trip latency of 9.8 msec.
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 15:48:30
(permalink)
How do you set this up for midi keyboard plugging directly into computer? Thanks for your help!
|
jimst57
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 151
- Joined: 2005/04/01 09:24:23
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 16:11:27
(permalink)
Melch&777
How do you set this up for midi keyboard plugging directly into computer? Thanks for your help!
I have a Focusrite 18i20 interface and a Line 6 Mobilekeys 49 plugged into the USB port of the machine. With the Focusrite interface, you set the latency in a piece of software that comes with it called MixControl. I have the ASIO latency set to 2.0ms and there is NO noticeable latency when playing the keyboard through a virtual instrument. Are you have problems because you are using a built in sound card? Most of the modern interfaces can go low enough in latency so you don't notice it. If you are using a built in sound card, an not ASIO drivers, you will probably never solve your latency problems.
post edited by jimst57 - 2015/03/05 16:20:36
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 17:30:29
(permalink)
jim is correct but let me reiterate something he said - the latency problem you have with a MIDI keyboard is NOT because of MC7 or lack of adjusting the latency directly, it's due to your soundcard drivers.
what soundcard are you using? which driver mode do you have it set to in MC? what is your latency set to for your soundcard drivers in MC? these are the questions you need to look at for reducing the latency for a MIDI keyboard.
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 18:23:35
(permalink)
Yeah I'm using the soundcard that came with the computer. I have a akai mpk mini that I'm pl;ugging dirwectly into usb on computer and then have a scarlett focusritte 212 audio interface that I'm plugging directly in and I just recently downloaded the drivers for the software from scarlett to get it to work on my computer.
I havn't even looked at the soundcard
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/05 21:55:06
(permalink)
There's no way to adjust for Latency settings with the Scarlett 212 from Focusrite. If I had the Saphire audio interface I could download the mix control that comes with it and adjust it there.
I've never had any luck with Cakewalk products
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/06 08:55:25
(permalink)
Melch - you need to rethink what you think you know!
first, the focusrite 2i2 "audio interface" IS a soundcard and you should never use your computer soundcard for your output when you have a real recording soundcard like the 2i2.
second, you CAN adjust the latency with the 2i2!
when you say you downloaded the software for the scarlett but couldn't get it to work - what exactly happened? which OS are you using?
this is going to be the key to getting your system working correctly. you need to get the scarlett software loaded and working on your computer. if you are downloading the correct version for your OS and it won't run, you need to contact focusrite tech support. they are really good with helping. they helped me and I didn't even ask them! they asked me first!
once you get that software running, you need to plug your speakers into the scarlett's output, or use headphones for monitoring, do NOT use the computer speakers on the computer soundcard for output. that way you'll be using TWO soundcards which have different clocks. you'll never be able to keep your tracks sync'd correctly that way. use the same soundcard (the scarlett) for both input and output.
once you have the scarlett software working, in MC, go to preferences ("p" on the computer keyboard) and go to playback and recording. then change the DRIVER MODE to ASIO.
then go to driver settings and verify that the scarlett is listed in both the RECORDING and PLAYBACK TIMING MASTER.
then click on the ASIO PANEL button on that tab. that will bring up your focusrite scarlett software. this is where you can change the latency. the lower the latency the faster the response between you MIDI keyboard and the softsynth you're using in MC. but it might also cause glitching, stuttering at very low latencies depending on your system. you might have to choose something a little higher. keep adjusting it until you find something that works with your system.
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/06 11:09:43
(permalink)
Beagle
Melch - you need to rethink what you think you know!
first, the focusrite 2i2 "audio interface" IS a soundcard and you should never use your computer soundcard for your output when you have a real recording soundcard like the 2i2.
second, you CAN adjust the latency with the 2i2!
when you say you downloaded the software for the scarlett but couldn't get it to work - what exactly happened? which OS are you using?
this is going to be the key to getting your system working correctly. you need to get the scarlett software loaded and working on your computer. if you are downloading the correct version for your OS and it won't run, you need to contact focusrite tech support. they are really good with helping. they helped me and I didn't even ask them! they asked me first!
once you get that software running, you need to plug your speakers into the scarlett's output, or use headphones for monitoring, do NOT use the computer speakers on the computer soundcard for output. that way you'll be using TWO soundcards which have different clocks. you'll never be able to keep your tracks sync'd correctly that way. use the same soundcard (the scarlett) for both input and output.
once you have the scarlett software working, in MC, go to preferences ("p" on the computer keyboard) and go to playback and recording. then change the DRIVER MODE to ASIO.
then go to driver settings and verify that the scarlett is listed in both the RECORDING and PLAYBACK TIMING MASTER.
then click on the ASIO PANEL button on that tab. that will bring up your focusrite scarlett software. this is where you can change the latency. the lower the latency the faster the response between you MIDI keyboard and the softsynth you're using in MC. but it might also cause glitching, stuttering at very low latencies depending on your system. you might have to choose something a little higher. keep adjusting it until you find something that works with your system.
Thanks for your response. I have my guitar plugged into the Focusrite with the Latency switch on and there is zero latency. Works great. My keyboard on the other hand is a akai mini and uses a usb cable to plug into the computer, so if I want to make use of MC7, I need to get a midi keyboard that has a midi out so that I can plug it into the Focusrite. MC7 recognized my audio interface and also the akai and I did go through prefernces and got it to work. The problem is that to take advantage of the midi instruments, I need a controller with the midi out.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/06 11:25:34
(permalink)
A MIDI controller connected via USB should be OK. Looking at the Focusrite 2i2, I am guessing the "Latency switch" is the one labelled "Direct Monitor." This only works with audio inputs. MIDI must monitor through the DAW. This is why it is important to know how to adjust the audio interface latency setting.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/06 11:32:41
(permalink)
Melch&777
Thanks for your response. I have my guitar plugged into the Focusrite with the Latency switch on and there is zero latency. Works great.
as scook said, the latency switch you're talking about on the focusurite is just a direct monitoring switch, it doesn't really have anything to do with the latency going from the source thru the computer and back out again. My keyboard on the other hand is a akai mini and uses a usb cable to plug into the computer, so if I want to make use of MC7, I need to get a midi keyboard that has a midi out so that I can plug it into the Focusrite. MC7 recognized my audio interface and also the akai and I did go through prefernces and got it to work.
The problem is that to take advantage of the midi instruments, I need a controller with the midi out. No, that's not correct, You don't need a MIDI keyboard that has MIDI in and MIDI out to make use of MC7. you just need to get the focusrite software working so you can adjust your latency, then you can use the MIDI keyboard as input thru USB and use a softsynth in MC. when your latency on the focusrite is set low in the software, then the round trip latency from the MIDI keyboard thru USB into MC and out thru the speakers attached to the focusrite will be low enough to use.
|
Melch&777
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8
- Joined: 2015/02/28 02:16:40
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/06 22:56:40
(permalink)
Beagle
Melch&777
Thanks for your response. I have my guitar plugged into the Focusrite with the Latency switch on and there is zero latency. Works great.
as scook said, the latency switch you're talking about on the focusurite is just a direct monitoring switch, it doesn't really have anything to do with the latency going from the source thru the computer and back out again.
My keyboard on the other hand is a akai mini and uses a usb cable to plug into the computer, so if I want to make use of MC7, I need to get a midi keyboard that has a midi out so that I can plug it into the Focusrite.
MC7 recognized my audio interface and also the akai and I did go through prefernces and got it to work.
The problem is that to take advantage of the midi instruments, I need a controller with the midi out.
No, that's not correct, You don't need a MIDI keyboard that has MIDI in and MIDI out to make use of MC7. you just need to get the focusrite software working so you can adjust your latency, then you can use the MIDI keyboard as input thru USB and use a softsynth in MC. when your latency on the focusrite is set low in the software, then the round trip latency from the MIDI keyboard thru USB into MC and out thru the speakers attached to the focusrite will be low enough to use.
When I plug the Focusritte into the computer, the only way to adjust any of it's settings, is if I am connected to a recording program, such as CakeWalk. I just went through you tube and the focusritte website and there is no mention, anywhere of what your talking about. When you say "Focusritte Software", which software are you talking about. There are only drivers that go withit to make it work on the computer and then there are effects, the program suite that allows you to add chorus, echo, etc.. There is no software that adjust the settings of the interface. I can't find anything on this subject anywhere
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/08 13:34:32
(permalink)
you had said above that you had downloaded the focusrite software and couldn't get it to work. Melch&777
Yeah I'm using the soundcard that came with the computer. I have a akai mpk mini that I'm pl;ugging dirwectly into usb on computer and then have a scarlett focusritte 212 audio interface that I'm plugging directly in and I just recently downloaded the drivers for the software from scarlett to get it to work on my computer.
I havn't even looked at the soundcard
that's why I have been telling you to get the drivers to work and have asked you what happens when they "don't work"? IF you have the drivers downloaded, installed and working, then: in order to change the latency using the scralett software, you DO have to access it through MC. In Preferences>PLAYBACK AND RECORDING make sure that the DRIVER MODE is set to ASIO then go to PREFERENCES>DRIVERS SETTINGS> make sure the PLAYBACK TIMING MASTER and RECORDING TIMING MASTER are set to the Focusrite 2i2 THEN click on the ASIO PANEL button near the middle of that screen. this will bring up the Scarlett software where you adjust the hardware buffers for latency.
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/08 23:08:05
(permalink)
This is an interesting thread as I have a thread in Hardware asking people to see what they get with the loop back test and different audio interfaces. That's a bummer that Cakewalks entry level DAW lacks the offset fine tuning. I'll have to fire up X1LE and see if this is the same. I would think if that feature is not part of the DAW then your hooped. Either use a DAW that includes the adjustment or use an interface that does not have hidden buffers so the adjustment is not even needed. A few things from this thread I need to point out. Scarlett 2i2 and 2i4's do not come with Mix Control software. The 6i6, which I have, is the first in the line up that includes mix control. But I assume there is still a ASIO control panel. Set it to 10ms for 90% of the work you'll do. Buffer settings have no bearing on the loop back test results read here: . http://forum.cakewalk.com/Lets-all-TEST-our-Interface-driver-for-offset-m3178396.aspx The loop back test results will be the same no matter which DAW you use. It may change a little tiny bit from computer to computer, but it is mostly dependent on the ASIO drivers and what they tell your DAW. Anyway, if your interface is bang on in Sonar x3 it will perform the same in MC , Cubase or Reaper. Changing the buffers can lower or raise your RTL but the offset will remain the same. Hopefully it is bang on or with in a few samples. Another thing is USB controllers come with their own drivers and this is what matters, your Audio interface is not involved when you use a USB controller. It is involved if you use it's midi ports. Changing audio interface buffers has no bearing on usb midi input latency. Midi latency is often because your computer is struggling due to DPCL issues or you have plug ins that are adding output latency. By passing all effects is often the solution.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2015/03/09 00:11:12
|
jimst57
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 151
- Joined: 2005/04/01 09:24:23
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/09 07:31:24
(permalink)
Yes it's too bad that this preference isn't in there. I suppose the reasoning is that it's an entry level DAW and it wouldn't be meaningful to most who buy it. Mine is only off by a slight amount, and in reality I probably can't play that accurately, but it still bothers me that things are not being placed exactly where I played them.
I wonder if there's a "feature request" as in Sonar for MC7 that can be made?
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/09 10:10:03
(permalink)
It's true that for some musical parts, like Vocals, it might not be critical. For me overdubing Bass parts it is critical as I can feel the delay and it makes it hard. All you could do is if you can figure out the delay amount then nudge each track you overdub by that amount.
Midi tracks are not effected as they get quantized so are always correctly placed.
@ 44.1 88 samples of offset is 2 ms.
|
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 50621
- Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/09 17:04:08
(permalink)
if it really is that much of an issue, you can always do the loop test, determine what your latency is, then adjust it manually by shifting the recording. that's not that difficult to do.
|
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8424
- Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
- Status: offline
Re: Any Way To Adjust For Latency?
2015/03/10 00:13:06
(permalink)
Hey Beagle ya this is what we are sayin'.. read my post #26. and follow my link and see what we've been up to in the hardware forum.. And what this thread was about until it was sidetracked by a hijacker, The fact is MC 7 does not include the offset adjustment so manually nudging each track is required which is a PITA. So Jim was looking to see if anyone had a work around to the missing offset option box. Seems like of all the things they stripped out of MC7 that this option was a bad one to loose. Unless your oblivious to what will be going on. Read this old relic off a thread to get the gist of why the offset is important to people who are aware of the consequences. It's real old but the explanation of the test is well done. Jump to post # 20. http://forum.cakewalk.com/WTF-whats-with-my-timing-SOLVED-m1301345.aspx
|