Hey, Mr Agape.
 
I sort of skimmed through those rather large paragraphs you've left for all our enlightenment and I gather you are a bit disappointed with how the thread has gone.
 
Me too I just thought it would just be a nice quiet spot where we could share our grief and offer our condolences to the ether.  Too bad different people had other ideas and my expectations were foiled, other folk'll do that to ya everytime. Bless 'em.
 
Given all that though and the wide range of belief systems being represented by those contributing so far on top of the difficulty posed by the atrocity itself, I would say the debate has mostly been conducted in a thoughtful and caring way and some very difficult divides have been crossed in a largely constructive manner with very large amounts of respect being shown for some very diverse opinions.
 
I'm not seeing fur flying in a hysterical meltdown at all, sure it's got a bit tense at times as the thread has progressed but overall it looks to me to be a triumph of common understanding over some pretty wide divisions.
 
Do you not see it that way or are you here to show us how we should have gone about?
 
A difficult circumstance that has raised all sorts of difficult emotions in many of us and there seems to be very little animosity left over any of it to me.
 
My hope for the thread is that now everyone has got a little bit off their chest, it gets cast into the black pit to be forever forgotten.  Others may have different views however and I'm OK with that too.

yorolpal


Acupuncture? Tai Chi?  A good neck rub.  "Wrasslin" with yor ol dawg. Literally not metaphorically:-)

It is a terrible thing.

Janet


I haven't read through all this thread, but thought I'd comment after something I heard today.  

One man in Newton couldn't sleep Friday night and wondered what he could do.  Finally, he thought of something.  The next morning he took his dog down to the local donut shop where he knew lots would be congregating and talking.   He sat outside with a sign that said 'My bulldog gives free hugs.'  Over 100 people got a hug from him and his dog.

For some reason, that brought tears to my eyes like the news hasn't.

Reminds me of this guy 

It's a tragedy. It's horrific in the extreme. We hear about murders and other violent crimes on a daily basis, but the murder of children tears at our souls. Regardless of our philosophical, cultural, religious, or socioeconomic differences, we share this grief. It's natural in such times to look for someone/something to blame. If we can identify the cause, surely we can fix it or at least prevent the next tragedy. So, we study the patterns and look for the cause, the initial flaw we can hold responsible. In the process, it is easy to lose sight of the victims. We remember the names of history's villains more than the names of their victims. This was an evil act perpetuated against innocent children. There is no justification and no satisfactory explanation for their murder. We grieve with the families of the victims. We pray for healing and comfort for the survivors. We rail against the injustice of it all. We raise our children to believe in the goodness of humanity. We shield them from the worst the world has to offer and jealously guard their innocence. We want to believe it ourselves. History has demonstrated that humanity has always had horribly cruel monsters among us. No amount of civility, culture, acts of piety, or education has been sufficient for us to cure this disease in the entire recorded history of our species. (In my opinion, the problem persists because we are not capable of curing the problem of evil in ourselves.) Regardless of differences in belief systems, I grieve with the families of the victims and the survivors. This is a tragedy and my thoughts and prayers are with them.

 
  As a person who fixes things I  try to rationalize it and fix it. At least make some kind of sense out of what happened.

    I understand anyone who tries in their way to make sense of what happened and possibly prevent it happening again.This is my only motive.

  So I see no problem with dialog to look into what happened here in addition to the grief and sympathy felt . I never intended to argue or rile anyone up about what I think some of the problems and fixes are.

   Steve maybe I misunderstood your post, the inference I got from it was that religious or Christian people  blindly follow what their religion teaches.Some probably do. Not me though.

 You asked me a few questions like how do I rationalize changes in organisms. Simple...its called adaptation, or what I think agape calls micro evolution. You asked me if I wasn't an animal what was I? I am a soul with a body. Think of the body as the hardware and the soul as the software that runs on it.Teach a kid that he is ONLY an animal and bad things can happen IMHO repeat IMHO.Yes we ARE animals but  so much more. Notice I am not demanding you or anyone else  believe it ok? Was indoctrination too strong a term? Did I expect a confrontation over it?Not really...It's just my beliefs/opinions.

   How is any of this relevant to this tragedy? In this case maybe not at all, but  the fact that it could be makes it relevant to the discussion.

  One of the other posters said the shooter was mentally unstable. That would certainly go a long way toward explaining what happened. Strangest insanity I have ever seen though. A mellow fellow all of a sudden becomes a violent criminal..*whew*

  It is obvious in my opinion that the educational system and its methods should be looked at as one of the factors,maybe only a small contributor but valid just the same and the whole reason I raised it up to be looked at amongst other things.

 It is odd that in quite a few of these cases the violence is planned to happen inside an educational institution. What is the common thread there, or is there one?

  Greggy asked some provocative questions a few pages up about some of the more unusual things about this. I don't know many middle aged women who have an AK 47 at home. I would like to know more about this.
 
It was said that the recent Colorado shooting in a theatre here in the US  was a setup. I'm not sure what to make of that either. I'm not saying I buy into this but it is an interesting read.http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html

 In several cases there are drastric departures from the persons normal personality. In the Nickel mine shootings about six years ago , the perpetrator was a family guy who drove a milk truck with no violent history. The unusual things happening in some of these cases make looking into some of the weirder possibilities something I am kicking and screaming to run from but can't always rule out.

Knowing more about something might help you to understand it for the benefit to yourself or others, and you don't know how much of it is in your hands until you know what it is. I believe that "it" is the culmination of things that have been happening now for quite some time.

 The discussion happening in hindsight is only damage control and future planning. Prevention at the front end makes more sense.

Starise

 In several cases there are drastric departures from the persons normal personality. In the Nickel mine shootings about six years ago , the perpetrator was a family guy who drove a milk truck with no violent history. The unusual things happening in some of these cases make looking into some of the weirder possibilities something I am kicking and screaming to run from but can't always rule out.

Let's face it, any act of mass killing is going to be a "drastic departure from the person's normal personality." I can't imagine someone shooting 20+ people and then his neighbors saying "yeah well that's Chuck to a tee...always spraying crowds with gunfire!"


And I don't think they would have to have had a violent personality either. Sometimes people keep stuff bottled up for years and never express it physically. Then one day it catches up with them and they snap. One thing in common with all of these mass killers is that they had some kind of psychological problem that was building up inside of them. The Nickel Mine shooter had some issues going on whereby he'd claimed to have molested some kids years ago and was thinking of doing it again. 

 Sorry Beep. I didn't say I was buying any of it. Remember when the gov't slipped drugs to unknowing people? Just sayin'. In this case I doubt it....in all of them...can we be certain?
 
 Sharke I agree although I don't think that the general profile matches up well with past profiles of most murderers. I think its a little unusual that in every case the person seems to be the quiet type. Yeah I guess the Nickel Mines shooter had some past issues. Maybe I'm reading more into it than is there.

 Sorry Beep I misunderstood I thought it was a little sarcasm.

It will be interesting how this all sorts out, and I do wish that we could actually learn something from it.  As others have posted, one does wonder what might actually be going on.

As for right now, compassion, comfort, and prayers for the hurting matter, not the media crush and spin.

I am also reminded of a line from ye olde philosopher Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."