HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:01:19
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eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
Just tried it in 8.53. A standard wav will not change tempo in 8.53. Groove Clips will. Not saying that X1 or X1a didn't have the ability to change tempo with a standard WAV file, I'm just not understanding how.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:03:34
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grumbleweed4162
ba_midi
HumbleNoise
ba_midi
HumbleNoise
Just tried the same experiment with a guitar clip and as long as it's Grove Clipped it responds to host Tempo changes in the browser.
When you say "as long as it's groove clipped' -- what do you mean? Are you dragging it INTO a track?
The wavs I'm seeing as problematic are acidized loops as I've said - and auditioning them IN the browser with "preview at host tempo" is not functioning.
When I say 'Groove Clipped' I mean I take a raw wave that's been bounced to clip then hit cntl 'L' to turn it into a Groove Clip. Then take that clip and get it into the browser using your method of choice (I drag the clip to the Windows Explorer) then Preview that clip in the browser to see if it will follow Tempo changes. So far as long as the clip has been 'Groove Clipped' (please save me any more embarrassment if there's a better term for it) it will will preview in the browser and match Tempo changes.
I see ... that's different.
I just did a video I'll be putting up for everyone to review. It clearly shows how - with the right settings (preview at host tempo) - clicking on a well-established loop library (Big Fish) I used for this one example - the loops simply do NOT play in sync.
I'll post when it's online. Sound and all.
Are you sure the loop is acidised? Big Fish stuff is in lots of formats, including bog standard wav.
Grum.
With all due respect - I'm doing this stuff a long time. I know my loops -- and I know which is which. See my next post please.
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:04:26
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HumbleNoise
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
Just tried it in 8.53. A standard wav will not change tempo in 8.53. Groove Clips will. Not saying that X1 or X1a didn't have the ability to change tempo with a standard WAV file, I'm just not understanding how.
In 8.5.3 you have to hold ALT key when clicking a loop/wav for it to be in the project tempo.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:04:32
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grumbleweed4162
HumbleNoise
grumbleweed4162
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
Now stop this now!!!!!!! Are you my twin or something?
Grum.
Wow - that's really funny grumble. Ok, what am I going to post next?
I think it will be that you have just given up your current lifestyle and wish to send all your worldly possessions over to this guy, you don't know, who lives in Southern England.
Grum 
LOL Grum, Would love to visit Southern England some day WITHOUT my worldy possessions which don't amount to much anyway. AND was really just thinking the same thing about a WAV file. I'm always ready to learn new stuff and sometimes my brain won't allow in new thoughts but I'm just getting this one.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:06:27
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In 8.5.3 you have to hold ALT key when clicking a loop/wav for it to be in the project tempo.
I didn't hold the alt key. I just changed the project tempo and the preview tempo changed - with a Groove Clip.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:06:39
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HumbleNoise
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
Just tried it in 8.53. A standard wav will not change tempo in 8.53. Groove Clips will. Not saying that X1 or X1a didn't have the ability to change tempo with a standard WAV file, I'm just not understanding how.
Well I didn't get that one right! I think you will find that it was a new feature in X1 (hence the excitement) but like you I don't get it. Like I just posted - it just seems a bit random. Grum.
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:06:46
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Ok, here's a video ... let me explain what you'll see: 1- It's in a project that will be playing in the video at 128BPM. 2- You will first see me moving the mouse to show what options are selected (Preview at host tempo, etc). 3 - you will see the browser open on the right showing a list of loops at 140BPM (they ARE acidized - I've used a number of these a bunch of times in 8.5.3!). 4- You will then hear me hit play and start clicking on these loops. You will notice they DO NOT play in SYNC at all. This should make it clear. http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
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e.Blue
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:06:47
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grumbleweed4162
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
But surely that is so random that the result will be totally hit or miss? A reverb tail will totally screw up the length a beat.
Grum.
Yes, you're right...but as long as the file is 'trimmed' to a recognizable bar division (eg..2,4,8,16) it works amazingly well. Most commercial loop sets are created this way, so they usually work fine. Every once in a while a file will be detected incorrectly and it will either play at half speed or double-time. It will even loop little one-shot WAV files, which is why the new option to NOT preview as a loop was added to X1B. -e.B
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Danirustic
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:07:14
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grumbleweed4162
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
But surely that is so random that the result will be totally hit or miss? A reverb tail will totally screw up the length of a beat.
Grum.
Thats why I said before that the wav loop must be perfectly "cutted" or "splited".. Dont know if its the correct word, but for me it means that the start and the end of the wave file is ready for a continuous playing. Thats why this wav files are made for using as loops. They were on sync before X1b Sonar was converting this files to groove files automatically on the fly. Sorry for my english! Daniel
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:07:59
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HumbleNoise
In 8.5.3 you have to hold ALT key when clicking a loop/wav for it to be in the project tempo.
I didn't hold the alt key. I just changed the project tempo and the preview tempo changed - with a Groove Clip.
Larry - youre mixing apples and oranges. A groove clip should play in sync - of course. That's NOT the issue here.
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:09:12
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e.Blue
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:10:52
(permalink)
ba_midi
HumbleNoise
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
Just tried it in 8.53. A standard wav will not change tempo in 8.53. Groove Clips will. Not saying that X1 or X1a didn't have the ability to change tempo with a standard WAV file, I'm just not understanding how.
In 8.5.3 you have to hold ALT key when clicking a loop/wav for it to be in the project tempo.
Would you believe that I never discovered that 8.5.3 could do that until AFTER X1 was released?  -e.B
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:12:20
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ba_midi
Ok, here's a video ... let me explain what you'll see:
1- It's in a project that will be playing in the video at 128BPM.
2- You will first see me moving the mouse to show what options are selected (Preview at host tempo, etc).
3 - you will see the browser open on the right showing a list of loops at 140BPM (they ARE acidized - I've used a number of these a bunch of times in 8.5.3!).
4- You will then hear me hit play and start clicking on these loops.
You will notice they DO NOT play in SYNC at all.
This should make it clear.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
Billy, Watched the video. Appreciate the time. I didn't try to actually match a tempo. I've just been seeing if the tempo changed when I changed project tempo. I'll try a couple of experiments. Thanks again for the video.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:13:13
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eBlue
ba_midi
HumbleNoise
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
Just tried it in 8.53. A standard wav will not change tempo in 8.53. Groove Clips will. Not saying that X1 or X1a didn't have the ability to change tempo with a standard WAV file, I'm just not understanding how.
In 8.5.3 you have to hold ALT key when clicking a loop/wav for it to be in the project tempo.
Would you believe that I never discovered that 8.5.3 could do that until AFTER X1 was released?
-e.B
Good thing you know it now - in case you need to go back to 8.5.3 to LOOP something LOL
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:14:58
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Danirustic
grumbleweed4162
eBlue
HumbleNoise
eBlue
WAV was also working in X1 prior to the X1B release.
I wish I understood how a standard WAV file can respond to tempo changes - in any version of Sonar.
I think it's computed based off of the sample rate and length of the file. It's essentially the same thing as applying the 'groove-clip' feature except that it's being done automatically.
-e.B
But surely that is so random that the result will be totally hit or miss? A reverb tail will totally screw up the length of a beat.
Grum.
Thats why I said before that the wav loop must be perfectly "cutted" or "splited".. Dont know if its the correct word, but for me it means that the start and the end of the wave file is ready for a continuous playing. Thats why this wav files are made for using as loops.
They were on sync before X1b
Sonar was converting this files to groove files automatically on the fly.
Sorry for my english!
Daniel
Daniel, I didn't realize English was not your first language. 'Cutted' is close enough. 'Cuted' had me baffled but I understand your point. Interesting about X1a previewing those properly. I'll have to claim ignorance and hope that feature comes back.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:15:42
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HumbleNoise
ba_midi
Ok, here's a video ... let me explain what you'll see:
1- It's in a project that will be playing in the video at 128BPM.
2- You will first see me moving the mouse to show what options are selected (Preview at host tempo, etc).
3 - you will see the browser open on the right showing a list of loops at 140BPM (they ARE acidized - I've used a number of these a bunch of times in 8.5.3!).
4- You will then hear me hit play and start clicking on these loops.
You will notice they DO NOT play in SYNC at all.
This should make it clear.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
Billy,
Watched the video. Appreciate the time. I didn't try to actually match a tempo. I've just been seeing if the tempo changed when I changed project tempo.
I'll try a couple of experiments. Thanks again for the video.
What is important here is to understand the loops in that video are commerically available loops. They are meant to work into projects at the host tempo if you so choose or to be used at their default tempo (those were all 140BPM). The user should be able to just click to audition them and here them in sync. It is true there are some file types that do not work properly - but the commercial libraries are not usually a problem ever. If you drag one of those loops into a project and groove clip it - it WILL play in sync (thanks for the little things lol).
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:16:09
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ba_midi
Larry - watch the video.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
The video just shows different loops being activated on the fly - it has nothing to do with playing at different tempos. There isn't an option to make something you just clicked on play at a convenient time - it just plays as soon as you click on it. Grum.
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:19:50
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grumbleweed4162
ba_midi
Larry - watch the video.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
The video just shows different loops being activated on the fly - it has nothing to do with playing at different tempos.
There isn't an option to make something you just clicked on play at a convenient time - it just plays as soon as you click on it.
Grum.
I don't follow your point. Every version of sonar that allowed for auditioning loops always kicks them in properly. I've been doing this for a long time. I don't see what the problem is in understanding there is something wrong now. The "auto preview" has always managed the start of the loop audition. That is the purpose -- to audition the loop IN the project AT the host tempo. It has always worked before (even with the ALT key in 8.5.3). This is simply NOT working.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:28:13
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I do not have the same experience of it working a certain way in the past so my comments should be taken with that grain of salt.
I tried a simple experiment using rex files from the Loop Masters loops as a base tempo and of course every loop I auditioned matched whatever tempo was set in Sonar. Probably not a great test but interesting and informative as have been your posts billy and everyone else. Appreciate the education.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:28:51
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ba_midi
grumbleweed4162
ba_midi
Larry - watch the video.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
The video just shows different loops being activated on the fly - it has nothing to do with playing at different tempos.
There isn't an option to make something you just clicked on play at a convenient time - it just plays as soon as you click on it.
Grum.
I don't follow your point. Every version of sonar that allowed for auditioning loops always kicks them in properly. I've been doing this for a long time. I don't see what the problem is in understanding there is something wrong now.
The "auto preview" has always managed the start of the loop audition.
That is the purpose -- to audition the loop IN the project AT the host tempo. It has always worked before (even with the ALT key in 8.5.3).
This is simply NOT working.
All of the content supplied with X1 (that I have tried) follows the tempo. It won't follow the project (beat for beat) unless you click at the right time to make things in sync. I'm sure the content supplied with Sonar isn't magic so it would appear that Sonar just doesn't like your loops! Grum.
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:30:33
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HumbleNoise
I do not have the same experience of it working a certain way in the past so my comments should be taken with that grain of salt.
I tried a simple experiment using rex files from the Loop Masters loops as a base tempo and of course every loop I auditioned matched whatever tempo was set in Sonar. Probably not a great test but interesting and informative as have been your posts billy and everyone else. Appreciate the education.
You're doing it again. Grum.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:32:02
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Billy is your project a MIDI clip or audio clip in the video?
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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e.Blue
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:32:49
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ba_midi
What is important here is to understand the loops in that video are commerically available loops. They are meant to work into projects at the host tempo if you so choose or to be used at their default tempo (those were all 140BPM).
The user should be able to just click to audition them and here them in sync.
It is true there are some file types that do not work properly - but the commercial libraries are not usually a problem ever.
If you drag one of those loops into a project and groove clip it - it WILL play in sync (thanks for the little things lol).
Billy, I don't think those loops are acidized. If they were, you wouldn't need to 'groove-clip' them after dragging them into SONAR. Not ALL commercial libraries automatically sync to host tempo, unless they are Apple Loops or REX files. I have always had to keep my commercial loops divided into 3 folders. Acidized, Non-Acidized & REX for that very reason. WAV-based loop files can be acidized or not. The easiest way to tell the difference is to look at the lower status area of the Browser window. If it doesn't show the loop's tempo, its not acidized. Its just a raw wave file created to loop when played repeatedly. So it appears that you ARE seeing the same problem that we are. ;-) -e.B
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planetearth
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:33:37
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So we know ACID-ized .WAV loops are a mess (more or less), and that The Powers That Be at Cakewalk have not replied to this issue so far, but what about MIDI loops? Can anyone get them to not play at the host tempo?
Steve
SONAR Platinum ▪ NI Komplete, Korg DLC, Arturia V5 Collection, Dimension Pro, IK Multimedia & other synths ▪ Les Paul, Peavey and Yamaha guitars. Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife . Comments from other SONAR users are always welcome!
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:37:11
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grumbleweed4162
ba_midi
Larry - watch the video.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
The video just shows different loops being activated on the fly - it has nothing to do with playing at different tempos.
There isn't an option to make something you just clicked on play at a convenient time - it just plays as soon as you click on it.
Grum.
Grum, Just to clear this up -- here's another video I just did in 8.5.3. I used a different project (the other one was done in X1) but ... 1- Holding ALT while clicking on loops plays them IN time no matter when I click on them. 2- They are in SYNC period. I was using the same set of loops. ANd I was mistaken - they weren't Big Fish audio, they were from "Club Revolution" library (used on many dance hits). So here -- this should show that 8.5.3 indeed do it properly and X1B is not. http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Louie_Looped.mov
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:38:38
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HumbleNoise
Billy is your project a MIDI clip or audio clip in the video?
Both. The projects in both videos contain MIDI / Synths / Plugins / Audio.
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:40:01
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planetearth
So we know ACID-ized .WAV loops are a mess (more or less), and that The Powers That Be at Cakewalk have not replied to this issue so far, but what about MIDI loops? Can anyone get them to not play at the host tempo?
Steve
Midi loops appear to follow the tempo even if the Preview at Host Tempo option is not checked. This make sense as they are midi loops and they need to be "driven" by some kind of tempo information. Grum. P.S. My Control Bar is constantly going blank while I'm doing this forum shizz.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:43:11
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Thanks for those videos Billy. Pretty clear that one works and the other doesn't. I've never used the feature in that way so couldn't really understand it that well.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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ba_midi
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:43:59
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eBlue
ba_midi
What is important here is to understand the loops in that video are commerically available loops. They are meant to work into projects at the host tempo if you so choose or to be used at their default tempo (those were all 140BPM).
The user should be able to just click to audition them and here them in sync.
It is true there are some file types that do not work properly - but the commercial libraries are not usually a problem ever.
If you drag one of those loops into a project and groove clip it - it WILL play in sync (thanks for the little things lol).
Billy, I don't think those loops are acidized. If they were, you wouldn't need to 'groove-clip' them after dragging them into SONAR.
Not ALL commercial libraries automatically sync to host tempo, unless they are Apple Loops or REX files. I have always had to keep my commercial loops divided into 3 folders. Acidized, Non-Acidized & REX for that very reason. WAV-based loop files can be acidized or not. The easiest way to tell the difference is to look at the lower status area of the Browser window. If it doesn't show the loop's tempo, its not acidized. Its just a raw wave file created to loop when played repeatedly.
So it appears that you ARE seeing the same problem that we are. ;-)
-e.B
I stand corrected (I'm trying to do too many things at the same time here, sigh). Yes it is the same issue. Those particular wavs were not acidized. But, regardless, IT'S BROKEN lol
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Grumbleweed_
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Re:Audition Loops at Project Tempo feature broken in X1B
2011/03/24 18:46:42
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ba_midi
grumbleweed4162
ba_midi
Larry - watch the video.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Out_of_the_Loop.mov
The video just shows different loops being activated on the fly - it has nothing to do with playing at different tempos.
There isn't an option to make something you just clicked on play at a convenient time - it just plays as soon as you click on it.
Grum.
Grum,
Just to clear this up -- here's another video I just did in 8.5.3. I used a different project (the other one was done in X1) but ...
1- Holding ALT while clicking on loops plays them IN time no matter when I click on them.
2- They are in SYNC period.
I was using the same set of loops.
ANd I was mistaken - they weren't Big Fish audio, they were from "Club Revolution" library (used on many dance hits).
So here -- this should show that 8.5.3 indeed do it properly and X1B is not.
http://ba-midi.com/Tests/Louie_Looped.mov
Nice one, I'm humbled that you did that to show me. It is totally different to the sonic mess of the first video and I can now see your point a lot better as yes, it did work differently. All I can say is "drag and drop" unless X1c is just around the corner. I'm going to bed but feel free to carry on . Grum.
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