munmun
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/06 12:33:04
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Mesh
(except for the part that says "2 strict rules" but listed 3. lol) 
Ooops!
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Starise
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/06 13:03:27
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I listened to some of your music munmun. Its good stuff! Keep up the good work!
Mesh- Dude,wasn't that like a Christmas present? I hope you cracked the celophane wrap on the box by now....
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Mesh
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/06 13:55:05
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Starise
I listened to some of your music munmun. Its good stuff! Keep up the good work!
Mesh- Dude,wasn't that like a Christmas present? I hope you cracked the celophane wrap on the box by now....
Yes, it was a Christmas present (good memory Starise:) and I had it installed on my XP drive with Sonar 8.5.3. I did play with it for a few months and then upgraded to X1 (which I installed on a seperate drive with Vista). I just never got to installing it on Vista......as you can see, X1 changes everything!! Thanks for starting this thread.....I'm re-hiring my virtual musicians (again).
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Gaffpro
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/06 14:49:12
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Herb was nice enough to offer his help to me in reference to a steel guitar part. Unfortunately I haven't had an oppurtunity to finish the tune (after going through 25 lead vocal tracks and actually buying Melodyne to help the tracks...I gave up....too frustrating and time consuming)and had to move on to other things......I did buy BIB 11.5 just so I could have fiddle and steel guitar at my disposal.....Like Herb, I'm in a situation where it's just more efficient as a DIY situation...I highly recommend having this program...what little time I've had to play with it, I think it's great.
Herb: Don't know what part of Carolina you're in...it's a shame you're having issues with vocalists, etc.
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Starise
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/06 15:20:26
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I recall a post on another thread by a fairly well respected musician/producer who said something I can't quote but it was along the lines of- "I don't want to use that particular sound or part of the program because it will sound like everyone else."
In this case the program wasn't at fault so much as the program having what they thought was or could become a generic sound. I'm sure we all remember the fads. I was pretty young then, but I remember when the Yamaha DX7 came out. The music world went ape nuts over it, it seemed that everything had a DX7 sound in it somewhere. Then the Korg M-1 came out and the same thing happened. Almost every new tune on the charts had sounds from that keyboard in it.
I see the same things happening in software unless we can purposefully individualize our music. The last thing I want to hear is someone saying," Yeah thats the same loop or drum I heard on so and so".
I already hear a lot of stuff out there that has that "generic" ring to it. I can usually tell unfeeling mechanical churned out music over music with some kind of feel to it. The best kinds of music actually convey a deep emotion or feeling from the artist/composer.
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Gaffpro
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/07 12:04:52
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Starise: Yes, and clean chorused Strat tones in the notched position between the middle and treble pickup were the norm then too........
Fads will always be here (autotune...what's next, lol)
I hope that the steel guitar parts are a little flexible with BITB...we'll see
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/07 12:24:11
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@Guitarhacker That Emerald-tune sounds good to me...! Once a year I think about getting BiaB, but two things are holding me back: the price (if I want to buy what I like, it just costs too much) and, to be frank, the AWFUL interface. It looks like a shareware program from 1995.. (sorry!). I'd love to have it though, to easily set up some basic tracks to work on in Sonar: quite often I don't feel like making a new song because it's so much work...  (BTW Does anyone know how to quote a post and then add your stuff to it WITHOUT staying in quote mode...? I wanted to quote Guitarhacker but my reply showed up as a quote too...? EDIT The solo's that I hear in the various demo on the BiaB site: if you create your own songs (well... if you enter your own chord progressions... ) don't you get solo's with the same licks all over the place...? I have the idea those RealTrack parts are pre-recorded, so... seems to me that if you make three songs with a specific RealTrack setup, you will hear repetetive parts...? Those RealTrack sound mighty fine to me, I have to add. And btw it seems to have ditched the MIDI-packs completely and only offer RealTrack stuff now? Yeah, it's that time of the year again to consider BiaB... 
post edited by hellogoodbye - 2011/10/07 12:33:42
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
Check out Soundclick
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Starise
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/07 12:32:50
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I agree the interface does look a little windows 3.0. Maybe its an intentional retro look.....nah.
I have also had the posting problem with quotes. It seems on some replies my answer to a quote is fine and on others I'm included in the actual italicized quote. When I try to space lower it just carries the quote lower...go figure.
There are a few of those simple things here that I still have not gotten onto. I don't have the time nor the skill to change my avatar every 24 hours either.
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/07 12:36:18
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O, I forgot to answer the question of this topic... I don't think it's cheating. To me this seems the same as hiring a bunch of session musicians to do what I normally do all on my own in Sonar...
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
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Jonbouy
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/07 13:50:44
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Band-In-The Box, is it cheating? I've actually thought this through a bit more and have finally decided. Yes it is cheating, uninstall it from all your machines immediately. Either that or don't ever tell anyone you use it.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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Starise
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/07 13:55:37
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Isn't cheating fun sometimes?...I mean if its not doing any harm to anyone or anything. But then maybe its not cheating because the very nature of cheating breaks the rules and what ARE the rules HHMMMMMmmmmmm?????????? :-)
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/08 09:14:35
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Does anyone know about a good recent review of BiaB...? I want to read more about it, but most reviews are very old...
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
Check out Soundclick
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kson
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/09 09:34:28
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BIAB is useful for chord structuring and maybe a bit of practice. I've found that, as far as songwriting, it will rarely give you anything useful aside from interesting chord progressions. I auditioned it once and couldn't get past the GUI. The flow of it didn't work for me. In the end, I don't think it's cheating, unless you lay claim to the cheesy elevator songs it produces.
post edited by kson - 2011/10/09 18:02:16
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/09 12:19:06
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To answer a few questions: Yes BB can now record audio in a track.... BUT.... In Real Band, (which comes with it and where you render the Real Tracks) you have a fully functional multitrack DAW. On a conversation with BB support, the guy asked why I wasn't using RB's DAW. I liked MC4 better. I finally found a singer who seems to be willing to work with me... a friend of my daughter who has a really good voice. Don't let the interface in BB fool you. It looks basic and it is, which makes it easy to work with, but the real magic happens when you open that basic sketch in Real Band and replace all the tracks with the Real Instrument tracks that are available there. Sometimes I have to render a track 3 or 4 times to get something useful, or simply to find one that sounds good and fits the groove of the song. Screw the reviews.... listen to the work people here (including myself) are doing using BB. Let that help you decide. BB has the ability to "create a song" for you, BUT.... that is basically a computer throwing chords together in commonly accepted forms.... It is so much more useful when YOU set down at a piano, or with a guitar and start working on a new idea...and then use BB to capture that idea and put it into a repeatable form. Using the "record audio" function in BB you can also record and save your melody line. I do not use the record audio function, choosing instead to capture the chords and play with the song structure and develop it in BB while "writing the melody" in my head....and if it's a strong melody and groove, I will remember it the next day. If not..... it wasn't a strong idea and I will write a new melody.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/10/09 12:20:49
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/09 12:25:46
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Hm, my main concern with BiaB right now is that I will have to wade through hundres if not thousands of presets in order to find the one that fits what I have in mind... Apart from that, afaik those RealTracks use various sounds for drums and basses so when you want to combine stuff, you may end up with various sounds in one song...? I think I could use BiaB to create a piano background or a bass track for a song I have written, those kind of tracks you have to have but are a chore to record and tweak, but using it only for that feels like a waste of money. I can't imagine BiaB coming up with a backing track I would really like because I've always been in complete control of everything... Still, as I said, it might be ideal for some background piano tracks and other stuff you need in the mix but don't have to be upfront.
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
Check out Soundclick
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DaveClark
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Re:Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/09 13:41:52
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Hi all,
One thing that appears to be overlooked by many (especially those critical of BIAB) is that you can create your own style from scratch. There are even several different ways to do this.
So if you feel guilty about using the existing styles, or if you don't want to sound like everybody else that uses BIAB, then don't!
It seems to me from reading negative criticisms of BIAB over the years that most if not all of those critics don't really know much about it. It always appears that they are familiar only with those features that are on the very surface. It's like someone commenting on a country after merely flying over it and peering down through the clouds every now and then.
Regards,
Dave Clark
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spacey
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/09 14:19:25
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I bought it quite some time ago. Opened it up, seen what it would do, closed it and done.
"Cheating"? I don't know for somebody else but I know it's a personal choice and it wasn't one I cared for.
I have 19 songs posted (I think) and if I'm asked about them - I wrote and played every instrument except the drums and lyrics. I recorded and mixed all parts. Good or bad I wrote them and I played the instruments. ( with the exception of parts by Mark Wessels on a tune)
Should you think it's cheating then I would have cheated only myself...to me the
issue was it was something I didn't want or need. Didn't want it generating anything and
didn't care to hear the sounds generated by it. Bad enough I have to create the drum parts. Hate that and it's on of the main reasons I don't write and record more than I do.
Of course this is my opinion and not based on what the rest of the world is or is not doing.
It's simply a BS program that I have no use for and don't think I'm judging those that us it....as I really don't care what you use.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/10 21:45:02
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As far as selecting a style, they are all cataloged into genre and have some pretty obvious names to help you choose the right one. Just take notes and when you find one you like... go with it.... AND... I often use one style/genre in a different genre tune. For example.... I take a HARD ROCK LA style and use it to make a country song. This is the newest song I'm writing and here's what BB has done with it... keep in mind, the underlying style is LA HARD ROCK... listen to the drums and bass and you'll hear that style. Here's the tune>>>> http://www.soundclick.com...hi&songID=11124487 All the parts except the vocalist and lead guitar solo are BB/RB tracks. Do NOT underestimate what BB can do when used properly and with some planning and creativity.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/10/10 21:48:25
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Starise
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/11 13:30:58
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Nice work there Herb. Just knowing it was composed with BB heightens my awareness to it and I think I can hear the "style" it is playing, but thats only because I knew what it was,know what I mean?LOL......If you had presented the song and I had no knowledge of it maybe I would not have listened for it or heard it.
Your girl can sing pretty well too. I think you might have found a good fit for your type of music! I think this is a good example of a great tune made in the program.
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hellogoodbye
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/11 14:54:51
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Sounds nice indeed, but that's because BiaB is GREAT for country, where usually most players play a straightforward rhythm and other fiddle along in an improvising matter. BiaB isn't suited for the kind of pop/rock/alternative songs where each instrument plays a more composed/melodic part. BiaB is great for generic stuff, the rest you have to add in a DAW. Buying the cheapest version of BiaB is useless (not enough styles) and getting the next version for 269 bucks (or so) just to create some basic basslines and pianobackgrounds is a bit too much... I think... (still haven't decided if BiaB could be of real use to me). If country was my kind of music, I would have bought BiaB already, no doubt about that. But I like other kinds of music. Maybe I should switch to country...? That would make my creative life a lot easier...
Sonar 8.5 PE, Edirol FA-66, Behringer C-1. All instruments in my songs are VSTi's.
Check out Soundclick
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/12 08:46:16
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BB does work well for country. And yes I agree 100% that it's not suited well for styles where you need a more melodic thing going on with keys or guitars or whatever. Stops and breaks are a bit difficult and syncopated things are near impossible with BB. Trying to match a softsynth to a BB piano or bass or even drums, to do a custom solo/break, is not easy. Having said that.... there are hundreds...maybe even close to a thousand rock stylings in BB. I'm guessing that using BB to lay down the drums and bass might work. It also does a fairly decent rock rhythm guitar again depending on the style. I don't write in those genre's very much so I have never really explored that aspect of BB. Like any tool, it all depends on the person using the tool, how effective it is. BB is not something that everyone likes or would use. If you think creatively with it, it will do a lot for you. My secret, if there is one.... use envelopes.
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/10/12 08:49:26
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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munmun
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/12 08:49:20
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You would be amazed how good a country piano track can sound in a rock song depending on what you are aiming for.
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2011/10/12 08:51:33
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munmun
You would be amazed how good a country piano track can sound in a rock song depending on what you are aiming for.
+1 in addition, there are some solo piano's that are sweet sounding, and amazing in what the program does to the part, based on the chords.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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chasmcg
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/01 21:09:08
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☄ Helpfulby cclarry 2017/06/01 23:40:38
Was just listening to " Fool on the Hill" by the Beatles and all the arrangements on there were not played by them. Then I listened to "She's Leaving Home." Nothing played by them, I think. The Beatles are (were) cheaters, big time.
George Martin played the lead on "In my Life." He couldn't play it as fast as it needed to be so he played it at half speed then manipulated the tape to get it to the correct speed. The Beatles are phonies. Just a great big bunch of phonies. Will never listen to them again (until I can get my hands on a copy of the 50th anniversary remix of Sgt. Pepper). :-)
chasmcg Windows 10 64 bit - Intel Core I7 7700T - Cakewalk by Bandlab - Focusrite Clarett 2Pre USB - 16 GB Mem DDR4 “The desire for fame is the last infirmity cast off even by the wise” - Tacitus
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bapu
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/02 00:29:03
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I won't cheat on The Lovely Lady but I'll cheat in making a "record".
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batsbrew
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/02 00:57:26
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☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2017/06/03 15:12:59
zombie thread
back from the dead
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/02 09:38:09
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☄ Helpfulby abacab 2017/06/02 20:09:01
Zombie thread or not this thread as some real good info in it I never considered it cheating to take a guitar lesson or stealing an Eric Clapton lick and using it in a song . So why would I consider it cheating to use a program that has an excellent pathway as to being one of the best music programs out there that can help you on your journey of learning how to play music on your chosen instrument ... As a practice aid BIAB has no equal for learning how to play and write in many styles of Music ... Now I'm not saying BIAB is the best thing out there if you want to play hard core metal or EDM music .. There may be other avenues and ways to go there and get the results you are seeking ... I think BIAB is more geared towards helping a musician along with learning the type of music a musician needs skill at if they want to be versatile as a player and have a career as a player who can work and play tunes in styles and genres of music that people have heard of and are familiar with . POP , Country , Jazz , Celtic , Swing , Rock ,Funk, Various Ethnic music from different nations , Latin , Bossa Nova , Blues, Broadway tunes, Standards , Rag Time , Blue Grass, ect ect ect .... When I was younger I started getting heavy in to learning and playing Jazz Guitar . FWIW , I consider myself as being lucky at the time because not only did I get to study with some top guitar players in the Jazz field , I also got to be a part of a scene that has dried up long ago ... What was that scene ? That scene was The Jam Session ... Now I'm not talking about some local club B.S. open mic night where they try to herd musicians in on an off night to make a little bling bling at the bar on a slow night . I'm talking about the legendary Jazz sessions that took place all over in NYC where all the name players would show up after their gigs and play just to let off some steam and do a little showing off in a loose club environment All the players in that scene were super friendly , they would let you play . I will also tell you this they were ruthless and they would bring your A$$ to school ...I don't care how well you thought you knew the tune when you hit the bandstand ..your A$$ was gonna get taken out by a sideman that just got done doing a gig w G Benson , Dizzy or whomever .. George B himself has even shown up to these Jam Sessions we used to love when he showed up  So hows a person gonna learn how to play that style of music when the Jam Session no longer exists ? That's where BIAB can help the most ..it can help you while your in the wood shed learning your craft .. I do not find it beneath myself to dial up a tune I don't know the melody for in lets say The Real Book .. I'm OK with sitting there playing along w BIAB even at a slower speed to learn what I'm looking to learn ... You would never guess this but I happen to love listening to Celtic and some Traditional music that has morphed into Bluegrass .. I have no problem sitting here playing my 200 dollar beginners mandolin to tunes like Banish Misfortune ... I know I'm not ready to sit in the circle and do it live with a group of players who live and breath this music ... BIAB is a nice outlet for this type of a musical activity ... FWIW , others in this thread have talked about the song writing aspect of BIAB so I went with this approach for this share / post .... any way peace out , Kenny
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Mesh
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/02 12:57:00
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☄ Helpfulby Beagle 2017/06/03 15:13:32
It only becomes "cheating" if you claim you played all the instruments and try to fool your audience. IMO, these are just tools to help flesh out a tune and besides, most of us already know our own talent and would want that to be showcased (not BB).
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dubdisciple
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/02 13:07:01
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Considering most music is just combining different variations of what has already been done, I think it's silly to call BIAB cheating. BIAB is just a shorter path to something people without it can do already. It's no more a cheat than recording a note for note cover song. At some point their will be some gauge of talent.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Band-In-The Box, is it cheating?
2017/06/02 20:45:55
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It's only cheating when you steal resources for music production.
It cracks me up these "ethical codes" probably created by DAW users who probably have never made money off their work. I wonder how many famous composers said the same thing when they used folk songs in their works.
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