Best Software for Orchestra Pads, Strings, Arpeggios

In the past I have worked with other musicians and my keyboard player would lay down orchestra pads, strings, arpeggiated string sections, choirs, etc.. behind my guitar tracks if the songs called for such a thing.

Now that I am solo, I have tried the guitar synths on the market and been less than pleased .... they track too slowly.

This would be my first foray into using MIDI sequencing for composing a full orchestra section behind my live guitars and violins.

What is the best software out there for use in SONAR to compose these kind of Orchestra type backing tracking ?

Thanks

Mike, have you tried the Garritan Pocket Orchestra that ships with Dim Pro?

You might find something useful there.

Failing that, there's always the East West libraries on the cheaper end of the market.

The Komplete 7 collection is nice.... the specific one in the package would be Kontakt 4. But if you can swing the entry price tag..... go K7.

The complete collection has a bucket load of really nice string, horn, orchestral samples, choirs, pads, and other various cool & interesting sounds.

When I need nice sound strings and horns, Kontakt 4 & EWQL is my go to synths. I have a limited version of EWQL that was available for free some time back,  with a very small sample set included but there is one really sweet string section included.

vienna is pretty cool ! I wouldnt recommend eastwest,as their PLAY engine is rubbish-loads of people have trouble with it.
Kev

Here is a clip of snippets from various songs I put together with orchestral software.
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=7306809
I'm primarily a guitar player so I played all the parts from a midi keyboard.
If this is what you had in mind I can elaborate.
P.S. If you listen with headphones the stereo fx and panning are a bit more apparent.

A source track is the track that contains the midi data that you are recording from the keyboard or writing in, or dragging in.  the source track send it's data to the synth which is in am audio track that is linked to the source.

Different DAW's will show this in console/track view differently. 

If you open staff view or Piano roll view you are editing the source track if you can see the notes. Only midi shows up in those 2 views.

Every time you insert a synth into a project using the INSERT SYNTH command, whether your DAW shows it or not, 2 tracks are being added. One is the midi source track and the other is the audio track where the synth lives.... as I like to say... it is actually the synth audio output track.

If you are new to midi, it might seem a bit confusing but work with it a bit and it becomes easy to understand. Go to my website and check out the music info pages I have there. You might find some useful things.

DO you have SONAR as your DAW? If so, you should have TTS and some other synths to get started with.

TTS is actually a pretty capable basic little synth with some pretty good general midi (GM) sounds in it, including some strings and horns.  I go into setting it up in a multi channel midi mode to play 3 things at one time as well as setting it up from drums.  It's a great synth to learn on. And if it's in SONAR, you already have it.

If you want somthing that sounds good and don't want to break the bank look at Yellowtools Symphonic Orchestra that runs in Independence Free
http://www.yellowtools.us/cp21/cms/index.php?id=987
 
You get some very nice strings, brass and winds by Kirk Hunter for 99 Euros (83.19 Euros if you live outside the EU). If there is a let down its in the percussion.
 
Obviously at this price they are not the most detailed library available, but they sound very nice. You can also get the strings, brass, woodwind and percussion as seperate packages, but its more expensive that way.
 
You get keyswitching too which is nice thing to have at this price. You can switch between articulations by inseting notes below the playable range of the instrument into the MIDI track, so you can build a preformance that switches between legato, pizzicato, tremalo etc in the same midi track.
 
This used to be my goto for strings but I have now got the more detailed (and more expensive) Kirk Hunter Pop and Rock strings, which comes highly recommended.
 
As other have said the speed that you can put things together in Piano Roll but it will be faster if you can play keyboards a bit. If you do have a keyboard but can't play well step input is probably faster than PRV.
 
 
 

Thanks for all the suggestions above.
I spent a few hours today playing around with different Synth software and orchestra sounds.

One thing I learned really quick .....  it is REALLY helpful to be a keyboard player if you try to create music this way.

Even the simple task of setting up a basic string section chord progressions was a major task using only PRV or step sequencing.

Then when it came time for complex melodies and counterpoints ...... ouch !!!

I can see why MIDI grew out of the world of Keyboards.

There must be a better way than I discovered to use these programs if you are not a keyboard player.

It is too clunky to pull up a sound.... then PRV write in your A, C, E, G notes for an Am7 chord ..... then go in and fiddle with all the delay, velocity, decay, envelopes, etc..  to try and emulate real human playing variations.

It may be okay to PRV an entire DRUM song ........ but complex harmonies and melodies for an 8 piece mini-orchestra piece ........ YIKES !!!

A few people have advised me to take a look at the new Roland GR-55 Guitar Synth.

Unlike guitar synths of the past (GR30 and GR-33), that had slow tracking limitations and could not keep up with even quarter note scales or arpeggios played at much over 120 pbm .......... these people (and ROLAND) claim they now have the response time of guitar synths to the same level of performance as keyboard synths.

Virtually no delay time.
Virtually no tracking limitations up to 12 notes per second  (about Yngwie Malmsteen speed)

900 sampled  string, horn, vocal choir, pads, piano, organ etc.....   sounds all at 24 bit.

Ability to blend 2-3 tones at the same time.
Full editing.

Fully responsive to pick attack, vibrato and all other playing techniques.

As a 100% guitarist, then sounds promising.

Of course unlike MIDI editing, you can't create and build an error free track ......... you have to be able to perform whatever it is you are recording (kind of like real orchestra people) ..... but it should certainly allow for a very human and LIVE feel to the tracks since technically speaking every time you hit a string you hit it slightly different.

I may give this a try

But I still welcome any tips on how to more quickly compose chord progressions and overlayed melodies with 6-8 different Orchestra instruments using things like Dimension Pro and the other software recommended above.

It seems just writing the notes in PRV  (as I have done with drum tracks) or using step sequencer could take WEEKS to write a simple 5 minute tune.

So there must be a better way I don't know about.

Thanks

mikespitzer


RLD

What Orchestral Software is that you used on those very impressive "movie soundtrack" sounding clips ?

Hey Mike,
I primarily used Miroslav Philarmonik and Stormdrum for those.
I would also add don't be afraid of getting a midi keyboard.
I'm not, and one certainly doesn't have to be a great keyboard player to use these programs.
A good ear is more important.
Playing the parts then editing in PRV is pretty standard for us geetar playing, keyboard wanna be's.

For orchestra i use Edirol HQ Orchestral and Miroslav Philarmonik. Can't go wrong with either of them imo.

I have to confess I am having problems grasping they way these Synth programs work even at the most basic level.

Before looking into paying for any other software right now, I have spent a few hours trying to experiment with Dimension Pro just to get exposed to how creating music with MIDI works
(note - all my past recording experience has been live instruments with my only exposure to MIDI being using PRV with BFD drums).

After several hours I can't figure out the logic of how to use something as simple as Dimension Pro.

For example, I insert a SYNTH track.
I use Dimension Pro.

I call up a program "Full Strings and Bows .sfz"
I go ahead and PRV draw in a simple chord progression
No problem so far.

NOW, here is the very basic principle I can't figure out with this software interface.......

I want to change to another sound ... for example Vocal Choir

But once I call up another program to start working on a melody, it changes the voices of the chord progression I just created.

I can't figure out how to select and use 8-10 different instruments unless I put them all on seperate tracks and that is of course impractical for electronic composing.

My gut instinct tells me I need to have multiple instances of DIM PRO opened inside a single track so I can access all the different instruments.

Unfortunately I have searched and been unable to find even a simple Tutorial for learning to use Dimension Pro to PRV compose a simple arrangement using 8-10 different instruments.

Any help gang ?

Thanks

Glyn Barnes,

You made this comment in your post above ...
 "It is possible in PRV to see several tracks superimposed if you want a bigger picture. "

Your point about DIM PRO not being multi-timbral is possibly why I have not been able to figure this out easily ..... it sounds like Independence and Kontakt work more like a BFD drum syth software with built in mixer, assignable outputs, mulitple instruments, etc...

THAT idea of overlaying/superimposing PRV from multiple tracks must be the technique I not knowledgable on.
(ie....  how to do all my composing with multiple instruments on a single overlayed/superimposed PRV so I can see all the instrument's relationship to each other on a single screen).

In other words, I am trying to work like in the video RLD suggested to me above ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w3e15IcoCY

This is what I have been trying to accomplish........ 
Do all my composing on a "single" PRV screen, but having the mulitple instances of DIM PRO (and eventually a better software) showing on the right hand of screen so I can for example click on the Full Strings and paint in my chord progressions, then click on the flute and add a simple melody, then click on the bassoon and add a bass line, etc..etc..

The way the guy is working in the video above is exactly what I have been trying to figure out how to do

Thanks

P.S.
With synths like Independance and Kontakt, it sounds like you may not need the overlay PRV views if they are multitimbral and give you access to so many instruments from one instance ????

Mike - It can definitely be confusing at first.  A low cost really good orchestral program is GPO which uses the Aria engine.  You can have multiple midi tracks each with it's own channel triggering different instruments in Aria.  Then you can open up all the midi source tracks together and do the same thing as shown in that video.  It is only about $100 and it is very good.  A lot of people here use it.  There is no dongle too.  It doesn't have a gigantic library.  After lots of research on different orchestral packages last year, I chose GPO.   Prior to that I used Dim Pro for orchestral sounds.  GPO provides all the needed orchestral controls that Dim Pro really isn't built for.  If you want to switch articulations easily and have complete contol over volume and expression you need an orchestral package of some sort.  There are a lot of them, and if you can swing the cash, Kontakt, Vienna, and others would be excellent too.  I found that GPO fit my needs perfectly at a low cost.

Here is a simple explanation of the dialogue box:

Simple Instrument Track - if you want the midi track and audio track to be one track.  This is a relatively new feature - I don't use it.  But a lot of people do.   This is as opposed to the traditional Midi track / Audio track.

MIDI Source - If you want to create a midi track right away this will create a midi track and point it to your soft synth.

Synth Track Folder - if you want the midi and audio track to be included in a new folder.  This is handy - I use this

First Synth Audio Output - Creates a stereo Audio track for your virtual synth - Its input points to your soft synth

All synth Audio Outputs: Creates a bunch of audio tracks for your soft synth - if you have multiple outs from your synth.  For example, for drum synths, it will create different audio tracks for each kit piece.  Or if you have Kontakt and are using it for different instruments, this is put each instrument on a separate track.

If you don't check any of the boxes Sonar will just add the synth to the synth rack.  You can create all the tracks you need manually and rout the inputs and outputs later. 

Midi Source track Output--> Soft synth --> Audio track input

Mike - as far as drums go, you can vary the velocities from note to note.  But what you really want is accomplished by the more sophisticated drum samplers.  I use Superior Drummer 2.0.  It has all kinds of "humanizing" features.  For example, even if every velocity is exactly the same on the snare, Superior Drummer 2.0 has a bunch of waves that were recorded at each velocity so they automatically alternate these samples.  It is extremely realistic sounding.

For Bass I use Trilian which does essentially the same thing where the've got multiple samples for different velocities. 

These types of programs have huge libraries because of all the samples.

With the orchestral packages you have much more control besides just velocities.  The amount of control depends on the package.  The more expensive the package, generally the larger the library and the more control you get.  GPO's library isn't that big but for me it's got plenty, and I don't use velocity to control volume, I use continuous controllers to create swells, just like a string player would use a bow.