Cakewalk Command Center 1.1 Update Feedback

Greetings friends.
 
We have been working on an update for Cakewalk Command Center (C3) , we are at a point where we would like to share our current plan with the community to collect your feedback. At this time we do not have a timeline for when we will deliver any of the proposed changes, that is something we will figure out after we get some time to work through your feedback.
 
One of our initial goals with C3 was to improve the new user experience. To be completely honest, (at least I) was not expecting the positive response and heavy use that C3 received from professional and upgrade users. To that end, many of the changes we would like to introduce are more geared to making it easier for professionals to get the functionality they need from C3 without making the new user experience any more complicated.
 
Disclaimer: Screenshots may not be the final art, this is mostly placeholder stuff. Everything stated here is subject to change and this is not a commitment on Cakewalk's part to make these proposed changes. 
 
What we will not be addressing in this update
Nothing is off the table forever, this is just a small list of a few commonly requested features that we will not be considering for this update. Please continue to make feature requests in the F&I forum and contribute to discussions around these topics, your thoughts are incredibly valuable in guiding our decisions. For this update however we will not be addressing these ones.
 
Multiselect/custom install selections.
The basic idea is, a method for users to select any arbitrary collection of products and install them. Supporting this adds a ton of complexity to some new options we'd like to introduce in 1.1 so we'd like to re-visit this topic after the changes to learn more about how folks feel about it.
 
Download pause/resume
Experience: We've been making a real effort to make more smaller installers where possible. Downloading smaller components has proven to be much simpler for users than downloading large gargantuan installers. This modular approach makes it easier for users to choose what they want and also not suffer as long when a download fails or becomes corrupt. 
 
Technical: By design most everything C3 does is asynchronous in nature. This includes downloading multiple files concurrently. This makes supporting pause/resume a bit more complex without adding a lot of additional information and also persisting this info when the application is closed/re-opened.
 
Both: Should we resume a download if a newer update is available or toss it out and auto-update the user? Not a life shattering event by any means but a seasoned user may prefer the version they selected, a new user may prefer to be on the latest and greatest.
 
Cancel downloads in progress
There are some design considerations - such as 'what happens when the user cancels download of 4 of 7 when C3 is downloading a collection?' that we are exploring in addition to the tech reasons for resume before we'd like to dive into this one.
 
Command Center 1.1 Update  
Persisting the installed product list in the registry
Today when a user installs a product C3 tracks the installed versions in a local per-user cache or by checking for a file on disk. This is problem when a user logs out of C3 as their cache is destroyed. Starting with 1.1 C3 will use the registry to maintain 'version awareness'. This should address issues where a product would report that it is not installed when in fact it is.
 
Supporting info: On the C3 side this is a fairly straightforward change. However this does require every installer to be updated to write its version information into the registry. Post-launch this may create a situation where products are reported as 'not installed' until they're updated to the latest version.
 
Content Path Customization
The 'Cakewalk Content' location is a pretty heavily used resource across multiple products. In 1.1 we will let users specify this path from the C3 settings page and C3 will copy the contents (if they exist) to the user specified location. 
 
Supporting info: Also a simple implementation on the C3 side. This change does require that the installers always respect the content path given to them by C3.
 
Verbose/Non-Silent Install
An option will be added to the settings page to allow users to bypass the silent argument that is passed to installers. This will allow users to step through the installer dialogs and options.
 
Easy access to the downloads and content directories
This is pretty simple, an open folder button will be added to the settings page to allow users to open up either the downloads or Cakewalk Content directories.
 
User-defined update check interval
Anyone that has lots of products or uses C3 to launch products understands what a pain it can be when waiting for the update check to complete. An option will be added to the settings page that will allow users to specify (in hours) how long C3 should wait before checking for updates. The last update check value is stored per-product in C3's cache. We're rolling with a default value of 24 hours but interested in hearing your feedback if this is to high or to low of a default.
 
Check for updates now button
Hopefully the title is self-explanatory. In addition to allowing users to specify how often C3 checks clicking this button will force C3 to check for updates immediately.
 
TEMP SETTINGS PAGE

I realize the language for some of these options is horrible - if you have any suggestions please share ;)
 
Download-only context menu option
For those that would enjoy the download and MD5-checking awesomeness of C3 but would prefer to manually run the installer or copy it to an offline-computer - this option is for you. It does what it says - downloads the files for a product or update without running the installer.
 

 
Behind the scenes fixes and performance updates
In addition to the new visible changes a lot of work has gone into fixing bugs and improving performance. Disk I/O should be improved (although probably not noticeable) as we've cut down on overly aggressive persistence calls. A few specific issues that might be worth calling out:
 
Error when clicking a link in C3: For some crazy reason (I don't know how or why) some folks did not have a default web-browser specified in Windows.  C3 now handles this condition with more grace.
 
Error when logging into C3 on a computer that has never had any Cakewalk products or VST plugins installed for non-admin users: This one tied into the aggressive persistence calls.
 
Update: 6/4/2015 
Based on feedback from our support group, this thread and the fault reporter so far we have also added the following for 1.1:

• All of your hidden products will now show up in the settings window so you can un-hide them. Right now its an utter mess, but once our designer takes a swing at it I'll get a new screenshot for everybody
• The 'Install All' option will always be available for products that have child products/installers
• We're looking into an 'Update All' button that will make it easier to update all products that have child products
• The product page now displays both 'Current Version' and 'Latest Version' for the selected product
• The C3 installer now adds windows firewall exceptions for ports 80 & 443 for itself, this won't stop super aggressive 3rd party firewalls but it should help with folks that have strict windows firewall settings in place

Your feedback matters
100% of these changes we're inspired by user-feedback via the forum and support. Keep this train rolling - let us know how you feel about these proposed changes. We can't incorporate everything in one update but it is important to us that we're on the right track with this first targeted set of changes. 
 
Please keep this discussion civil and on-topic
It would be very helpful for us to leave this discussion with helpful, actionable feedback.

I think you guys have it narrowed pretty good.  I won't speak for everybody, but for ME, being able to direct content locations PLUS being able to inform CCC about applications already installed (outside of CCC) will get me using it.
 
Let the dust settle on that while you develop the Talent PC module, then see what people most want from CCC from there.
 
 

Willy Jones [Cakewalk]
Multiselect/custom install selections.
The basic idea is, a method for users to select any arbitrary collection of products and install them. Supporting this adds a ton of complexity to some new options we'd like to introduce in 1.1 so we'd like to re-visit this topic after the changes to learn more about how folks feel about it.

That is what was and still is annoying me at most. With RapturePro the last time. I have asked for "Install All", it has downloaded near everything but then there was an error... After restart, I pressed "Install All" again, but after installing PR itself, it could not continue. But "Install All" disappeared. So, I have to manually: "Install 1", wait installation, "Click", wait rescanned installed, "Install 2", wait installation, "Click", wait... Even if not custom, is it possible to have "Install All" All the time?

This sounds like a good direction for CCC to go in. You've got my vote.
 
Regards,
Dan
 

Willy Jones [Cakewalk]

Tom Riggs
 
I have given up on CCC primarily because of the lost data when a download fails. If the download fails using FireFox I can resume without loosing the part of the file that is already downloaded. Even after a reboot, it is a little tricky but it works.

 
We have seen a major decrease in failed and partial downloads since we switched to smaller, modular installers. I would be very interested in trying to figure out why this happens in your case though. Would you mind PM'ing your IP address next time this happens? (Or wait for 1.1's download-only option). We can check the logs and find out which location your download was served from. We found some ISPs had some weird stuff going on and they were getting served downloads from locations that were waaay far away.
 
Another thing worth trying if this happens to you consistently is changing your DNS settings to Google's DNS or Open DNS. I'm geographically closer to New York City. If I use Comcast's (a cable provider here in the US) DNS I end up getting downloads from Atlanta and Washington D.C. that are about a 3rd slower.
 

Thanks for replying Willy I'm in the Philippines and the connection issues are definitely caused by my isp limiting download bandwidth.
 
They have recently offered up a new plan which allows for unlimited download without forced slowdown like before. I have changed to that plan and normal browsing and youtube watching is no longer causing problems.
 
So it may be easier to download now however I have not tried as I prefer to download only and install when I'm ready. So I think I will be more likely to give ccc another try once this update is implemented.
 
If you can get the down-loader to quit discarding the partial download and save it for later (perhaps with an extension appended to the name), then it's a simple matter of checking for the partial file before starting a new download and pickup where you left off. That way there is no need to retain any information in the program itself about the failed download.
 
As a mater of fact I was downloading the update and had to switch the power at my house from generator to the main electric (our power was out at the time I started). I shutdown the power to the house and switched over. When I made it back to my studio a while later I remembered that I was downloading the updates and just clicked on restart in FireFox. The Main program update was only about 5mb from completion and it picked up right where it left off. CCC would have trashed the whole download and started from scratch.
 
Now I know that download failure is not Cakewalks fault but the ability to pick up where it left off saved me another hour of downloading. Given the 3rd world nature of the power and the internet where I live you can see why this is important to me. If I lived in the Manila area I would have other options available but...... I live in the rural area.
 
The local infrastructure sucks but I have a heck of a view. LOL
 
On the newer version issue in the first post:
 
If there is a newer version of the update available then offer the user the option of completing the original download or download the updated installer.
 
It seems the you are afraid to give the end user any prompts during the download. While that option may be preferred by many including your tech support :) having options that allow more control of the install process is also a good thing.
 
I think Cake has a great product and I know that the CCC is the way you wish to move forward. I would love to be able to take advantage of its full potential.
 
Have a great day!

Thanks Tom.
 

Tom Riggs
 
 
Thanks for replying Willy I'm in the Philippines and the connection issues are definitely caused by my isp limiting download bandwidth.

 
We do utilize an edge location in Manila. Next time this happens please do ping me so we can check the logs and verify you're getting the download from what (in theory, though not always) should be the fastest download location.
 
 

If you can get the down-loader to quit discarding the partial download and save it for later (perhaps with an extension appended to the name), then it's a simple matter of checking for the partial file before starting a new download and pickup where you left off. That way there is no need to retain any information in the program itself about the failed download.

 
To some extent yes that is how it works, but to really do it right you need to know the tail of the last bytes that came down the wire and make sure what you have on disk isn't corrupted. It would suck to resume a download to then still end up with a corrupted file. This is actually a report that our support team used to get often from users that had daily download caps. They would pause the download, resume on day two and the final file would be corrupted. 
 

I'm using 32 bit Platinum. I'll eventually go to 64 bit, but for now I need to stay with 32 bit. Will this new improved Command Center allow me to install 32 bit? So far the only way I could do it was to do a manual install.
 
I'm glad you're giving us more freedom on the install paths with Command Center. Many of us want keep our C drive lean? I like your idea for a verbose install, many of us missed the custom install options we'd have in the past. Thanks for everyone's work on this. I think the Command Center is a good idea that just needs improvement.

Having unhidden everything earlier. I have just been reminded that when you hid something, it does an update straight after. so if you want to say hide all the loop content, you have to sit through several update checks. The plus side though, is that once they are hidden they are not checked for updates, making hiding them more worthwhile.

The only thing I care about for CCC is that I can choose where to install everything. I see mention of Cakewalk Content but not mention of the standard feature for seemingly every program in the world but CCC - which is the dialog, "where do you want to install?".

I can't use CCC at all without this capability.

Did you address that in your comments above or is it off the table?

Tom Riggs
lawajava, the verbose install option mentioned in the op would give you the same level of control during the install you had in previous versions.
 
 

Good to hear. What about installing 32 bit instead of 64 bit Platinum?

Kamikaze
Having unhidden everything earlier. I have just been reminded that when you hid something, it does an update straight after. so if you want to say hide all the loop content, you have to sit through several update checks. The plus side though, is that once they are hidden they are not checked for updates, making hiding them more worthwhile.

 
Thanks for the feedback. I'll look into if we can get 'unhiding' put together for this update.
 
RE: the update checks, the new update check period option we're adding to the settings page should ease this pain for you.

As far as beginner vs advanced/simple vs. Total control goes, how about adding "basic" and "advanced" selection buttons just like in preferences in Sonar. I would think that would be an easy way to accommodate everyone's needs.

BassDaddy
I don't want to have any 32 bit on my system. I would like all 32 bit plugs marked clearly or put in a folder I can choose to not install.

+1

... assuming you already know they are 32 bit plugins which is not indicated ;) In the context of this thread it's a request.