vmw
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 01:14:04
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: ColinB52
Technically you may have broken some trading agreement, but, who is
in the wrong?
Colin.
My understanding is an Australian Distributor cannot by law prevent an Australian citizen parallel importing into the country.
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Soundog
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 02:12:15
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What I can't figure out is why Cakewalk needs international dealers for distribution at all. Are they trying to stick with their “core competency†and pull out of the warehousing distribution game ? Even if this is to the detriment of sales ? I would have thought that the internet is now at a point where it’s market reach is far superior to the traditional local shopkeeper’s.
I know for myself that when I want to buy software or hardware, the first place I look is google. Part of this is to research products because I have often gone into supposed local “high end†gear sellers and asked about something only to be met with blank looks from the “expert†staff. I have no qualms ordering internationally if the price is better or the service is better. Most of my hardware and software has been sourced this way.
There are a lots of software sellers who sell and upgrade from the internet alone. Bob Lentini’s SAWStudio for example – is sold, supported and upgraded from only one place – the website. They do not send disks or manuals – everything is downloaded and it seems to work very well – fast and efficient.
It’s a shame, but Cakewalk’s sales and service was top notch before Intelliware stepped in. Intelliware are certainly not helping Cakewalk’s cause – they seem to be out to destroy it if anything. I love the way Sonar works, but if it gets too hard to upgrade, there’ll come a point where I just won’t bother anymore. Goodwill is hard to build up, but easy to destroy.
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glazfolk
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 02:56:45
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bermuda
Geoff wrote:
I appreciate the fact that at last someone at Cakewalk has taken the time to not only read my question but also answer it.
My sincere apologies to Cakewalk for the fact that my particular needs as a customer do not conform with your business model.
This is not a problem for me. I'm simply taking my money elsewhere.
_____________________________
Geoff Francis
...........................................................................................................................
But you are still here, so the threat was idle ? (not really fair, to try and bully someone into doing something)
The threat was not idle. I did take my money elsewhere and bought an alternative product instead of FX3, since that was what Cakewalk in effect told me to do. As for "bullying" ... come on, who's David here and who's Goliath? All I'm trying to do now is ensure that things get better in the future. Heck, I'm running out fast of polite ways to try to explain this to you. You say that you don't work for Cakewalk. Thank goodness for that. At least there's some hope then ... 
post edited by glazfolk - 2005/08/04 03:01:34
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b3gsus@msn.com
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 05:13:23
(permalink)
Well said Loop! I believe Cakewalk needs to take whatever measures necessary to, "Take Charge" of their Global Sales & Customer Service... Surely if Cubase, Emagic, etc. can sell & support their products directly & relatively painlessly, Cakewalk would absolutely have a better advantage on obtaining the potential millions of customers that are going elsewhere just because it's less hassle. I've never felt that glazfolk was dissing Cakewalk rather trying to open their eyes to what has become a real LARGE SCALE PROBLEM that is costing them a ton of business... Lord only knows how much! IMHO Wildman How could Steinberg or Emagic - small German companies - become market leaders with their products not only in Germany, but in the US and the rest of the world too? They knew that business is global, so they acted global. Why is Cake so timid and local?
Wildman,,aka,,,"Nick Danger" Studiocat Core2Quad Q9550 w/P45 Cset XP-Pro Sonar Pro 8, 2 FF 800, Wclock, Avalon VT-737, Focusrite V Master,Eureka, 2-LA-4s, Neumann U87,TLM-103,Rode NTK,MCU,Event SP8s, DynAudio BM5As VS-2480 4 DA88 2-Mackie 24/8buss
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bermuda
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 08:45:59
(permalink)
Hey, I'm trying to help the unorganized approach actually work with Cakewalk on improving things, but to date not one solitary piece of tangible evidence has been provided of poor service.... Google search brought up tonnes of places all over the world to buy FX3. At the end of the day if you wanted something that bad you would have bought it and swallowed the additional shipping. Everytime I make a purchase of music gear, software I have to do this. Do i want the software and equipment yes, therefore I know that I have to swallow the cost. Please don't begin to insult me by insuating that you are glad I don't work for Cakewalk. I have supported improvement and shared alternatives for the short term and approaches to solve the problem that actually have impact for the medium to long term. One is on your side, but one is also realistic through ones own years of experience in these areas. You bought an alternative to FX3....well if you wanted that bad you would have bought it from one of the many places online around the world. If the distributors in your region are not selling it to you, there must be a reason. What reason have you officially received from your many conversations (as hinted at) with Cakewalk and the distributors. You have yet to share this with us.. and all the demand for change folk are failing this drive by not providing much evidence at all...You do not take a new partner to task without tangible evidence as you end up screwing a relationship. The EVIDENCE can be obtained now by enquiry on e-mail to the distributors about products. If you want change that badly, why not make it happen. Go make a difference. I find that folk bagging up the I want a better $$ deal with the "You're losing a huge number of customers" threat very insulting the the marketing folks who are qualified, have the facts and monitor performance of sales. I do agree that you should be able to get the full range of products from Cakewalk through distributors or at least be pointed to an alternative distributor who does.... WHAT is the reason that Cakewalk and Intelliware give for not distributing this FX3 to you ?
post edited by bermuda - 2005/08/04 09:22:10
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fac
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 09:19:36
(permalink)
I'm trying to help the unorganized approach actually work with Cakewalk on improving things, but to date not one solitary piece of tangible evidence has been provided of poor service.... Ah, so our word is not evidence enough? We have already posted links to the so-called distributors. If you follow those links you will see what they offer. I haven't received a reply from Roland LA, yet. But you will want some evidence that I actually wrote to them..... and that they haven't replied. Dude, I *am* glad you don't work for Cakewalk or any other company I buy software from. I couldn't imagine dealing with you if you were in technical or sales support. Just because you can take so much crap and be ok with it doesn't mean we all have to. The EVIDENCE can be obtained now by enquiry on e-mail to the distributors about products. If you want change that badly, why not make it happen. When I was looking for the upgrade to S4, I went with the so-called distributor in Mexico (Casa Veerkamp). They had a website which hadn't been updated in years. I emailed them to ask about the Sonar upgrades and Cakewalk products in general. They replied (after no less than one week) saying that they did not distribute those products at all. Then I wrote to Cakewalk support with this info and never got an answer. Today, if you go to Casa Veerkamp's website, there is a link to Cakewalk stuff there. Follow it and it will take you to Roland Latin America. In the Roland LA site look for a distributor in Mexico and it will take you back to Casa Veerkamp. Thank you very much. All the evidence is there. I'd say this thread is enough evidence as well. It's obvious lots of people are not happy with the current distribution system and would rather go back to ordering directly from Cakewalk.
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glazfolk
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 10:42:32
(permalink)
No point replying to this .. you evidently haven't read or understood a word I've posted up to now  Have a happy life.
post edited by glazfolk - 2005/08/04 10:48:12
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bermuda
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/04 11:24:03
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: glazfolk
No point replying to this .. you evidently haven't read or understood a word I've posted up to now
Have a happy life.
Understood it all, tried to help short term , asked folk to get things changed in medium and longterm, but noone provided tangible evidence. Noone wants to go get any evidence except: FAC who pointed out that Mexican Distribution of Cakewalk products appears not to sell any Cakewalk products. Hopefully this can be addressed by Cakewalk quickly. As with the complaint about trying to be steered to Cubase when wanting to buy Sonar..Some mor info on this would be useful to them. Online sales in US to rest of world can incur problems and costs as below: 1) Cost of branch container ship v courier plane 2) Cost of tax filing in diff jursdictions 3) Cost of establishing legal entity in different jurisdictions 4) Cost of ignore this and trading thus evading income/corporate tax of jursidictions, by on-line distribution. to differing tax jursisdictions. I do have an extremely happy life, but appreciate your wish for that to perpetuate. I sincerely wish the same for you also.
post edited by bermuda - 2005/08/04 11:38:05
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Soundog
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 00:50:44
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: bermuda
Online sales in US to rest of world can incur problems and costs as below:
1) Cost of branch container ship v courier plane
2) Cost of tax filing in diff jursdictions
3) Cost of establishing legal entity in different jurisdictions
4) Cost of ignore this and trading thus evading income/corporate tax of jursidictions, by on-line distribution. to differing tax jursisdictions.
Online sellers who ship to Australia don't pay any Australian taxes. It is the buyer who pays the taxes. If Cakewalk were to ship upgrades directly to me, they would contract Fedex for example to do the shipping. I pay the upgrade charge + the Fedex shipping charge. When the goods land here in Aus, Fedex calculates the customs duty and the sales tax and I pay Fedex directly with a credit card. Cakewalk doesn't do a thing except take my money and pack the software before giving it to the fedex man ( or woman ) to ship. End of story.
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glazfolk
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 01:08:36
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Soundog
ORIGINAL: bermuda
Online sales in US to rest of world can incur problems and costs as below:
1) Cost of branch container ship v courier plane
2) Cost of tax filing in diff jursdictions
3) Cost of establishing legal entity in different jurisdictions
4) Cost of ignore this and trading thus evading income/corporate tax of jursidictions, by on-line distribution. to differing tax jursisdictions.
Online sellers who ship to Australia don't pay any Australian taxes. It is the buyer who pays the taxes.
If Cakewalk were to ship upgrades directly to me, they would contract Fedex for example to do the shipping. I pay the upgrade charge + the Fedex shipping charge. When the goods land here in Aus, Fedex calculates the customs duty and the sales tax and I pay Fedex directly with a credit card. Cakewalk doesn't do a thing except take my money and pack the software before giving it to the fedex man ( or woman ) to ship. End of story. Soundog - You're absolutely right of course and Bermuda is absolutely wrong (but don't hold your breath waiting for him to admit it!) ... well you're almost absolutely right! In fact it's even better than you say. Because of the free trade agreement between Australia and the USA, you shouldn't incur any customs duty on US-made products imported directly from the US ... this includes software. It gets even better. The Customs people have an extraordinarily complicated formula for working out GST due on imports. I'll put the link at the bottom of this post. In broad terms, if you bring it in by Fedex, up to $250 (Aus) in value is GST exempt, but over this you pay GST on the full value. If you bring it in by Post however (US Mail the Australia Post) the GST exempt level will usually be $500. Yes, I know this is illogical, but them's the rules. I now import most of my studio gear and software (other than Cakewalk stuff of course) directly from the USA - I've even had them erroneously (but in my favour!) exempt from duty on items they should have charged for ... but I never went back to tell them Now, here's that link: http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4376 Best, Geoff
Geoff Francis - Huon Delta Studios AMD Opteron 246 2GHZ twin CPU Tyan S2875 AVRF Dual M'board 2 Gig RAM, Three Monitors w NVIDIA GeForce FX5700 Alesis iO26, 2 NTFS Seagate HD DigitalDesign Speakers
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vmw
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 03:02:22
(permalink)
Online sales in US to rest of world can incur problems and costs as below:
1) Cost of branch container ship v courier plane
2) Cost of tax filing in diff jursdictions
3) Cost of establishing legal entity in different jurisdictions
4) Cost of ignore this and trading thus evading income/corporate tax of jursidictions, by on-line distribution. to differing tax jursisdictions.
What cost of tax filing? A sale is deemed to take place in the country of the customer for purposes of local taxes. Income, be it from a local or international sale is just that - income, and is subject to normal income tax. As for evidence - self evident by this thread and others on this subject. Want more evidence to the competence of Australian distributor - take my credit card statement – “intelliware (has to be an oxymoron)/roland†has charged me for an update, which I cancelled and incidentally never received. Cake doesn’t answer all e-mail even when you present them with evidence, in particular on this subject, it seems to fall into the “discretion†black hole.
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Mully
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 09:14:10
(permalink)
Hey Glaz I can understand fully why you import most gear nowadays. As an example, when I decided to go with S3, I saved around $500AUD by bringing a new copy from the US via an eBay site/shop. Together with the duties/taxes I saved a bundle and that was after going around the shops trying to get a close enuff price because I do like to support the dealers but 500 biscuits is 500 biscuits ya know. Definitely an imbalance. Personally I see that the dealers tend to think PT is the go especially given the packages Digidesign offer and as a result I felt they weren't really interested in trying to sell Sonar at all. Bit of disinterest in some clown wanting to buy something other than the all conquering PT. I wonder if there is an attitude from Cakewalk of not working their dealers into a more pro active state. Maybe CW are resigned to treating o/s markets as too hard to penetrate. Just some possible scenarios that might explain the shabby state of o/s affairs. Intelliware for me though have been great as Sonar support for upgrade and the all conquering FULL English manual... now THAT rocks.  Anyways.... cheers mate!
ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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bermuda
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 09:28:58
(permalink)
If it's an international sale done online it can depend where the server and software that carries out the transaction takes place to deem in which jurisdiction the trade took place. http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/hongkong/jhkecom.html "In addition, Hong Kong's fiscal structure, which taxes local source income, means that e-commerce operations in the SAR would need to avoid entering contracts locally, which in turn might mean that servers would have to be located elsewhere. This is not ideal. 16% tax on profits is not high, but it is a lot higher than nil, which can be achieved quite easily in many other low-tax jurisdictions." (There are many examples on the website) Some interesting stuff on Australia below: http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/offon/australia/aushom.asp Athough this is a constantly changing process though and may be different for many jurisdictions. Once you set up a complex structure it can take years to unwind...Trust me I know this from experience If cakewalk are seen to be trading in AUS then they will need to set up a legal entity. i.e. There must be recourse for legal procedings, tax filings and for accounting. But wait they will be paying US tax on the Sale too ...which means that they then need to file paperwork for tax relief ... oh joy...screw the software, lets spend money on setting up holding companies, filing documentation additional audit fees, employees to carry out this work and the like. $$$$$$ down the drain that is why distribution agents are used Many large companies Sony etc have branches or incorporporated entities in each country. Because they sell a shed load more than Music Software Look people I'm trying to tell you it's not black and white and pointing out some of the issues that may exist I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS CAKEWALKS STANCE, SCENARIO, LIMITING FACTOR, OR DESIRE. Maybe they just don't like people in Australia or Tasmania and want to intentionally mess them about... WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK CAKEWALK ARE DOING IT FOR. This is not one of their motivations come on ! SPEAK TO CAKEWALK - CALL THEM- E_MAIL THEM< HAVE FRANK DISCUSSION WITH RON KUPER ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS. I don't need an answer ... you do ! ps I'm sure I'm not 100% on the laws of all countries, the tax rules of all countries, the international tax treaties on all countries. One can't know everything !
post edited by bermuda - 2005/08/05 11:40:12
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LoopJunkie
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 09:41:20
(permalink)
I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD WASTE THEIR TIME GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE YOU SUFFER. But they should be going out of their way to be a company that's easy to do business with, being the underdog in their market. Steinberg and Emagic should be their role model on handling international markets - they knew how to penetrate and succeed long before they were sold to bigger players. We've been ****ing since before S4 came out - there was some lip service from Cake - but do we see a significant improvement? Just try to buy Pyro 5 in Europe - Cake's distributors sell you happily the outdated version at twice the price and don't know sh!t about Pyro 5.
loop 
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bermuda
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 10:16:27
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: LoopJunkie
I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD WASTE THEIR TIME GOING OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE YOU SUFFER.
But they should be going out of their way to be a company that's easy to do business with, being the underdog in their market. Steinberg and Emagic should be their role model on handling international markets - they knew how to penetrate and succeed long before they were sold to bigger players.
We've been ****ing since before S4 came out - there was some lip service from Cake - but do we see a significant improvement? Just try to buy Pyro 5 in Europe - Cake's distributors sell you happily the outdated version at twice the price and don't know sh!t about Pyro 5.
I agree loopjunkie... Cakewalk SHOULD have all products available via distributor, including new releases and at least deals worldwide, even if they are not % wise even due to additional costs incurred through distributors. As you say we have been ****ing....... Not an effective approach so far on getting things improved...hence me suggesting alternatives. Man if it were huge to me, then I would be chasing the distributors until they turned around and said, Not supposed to do, Cakewalk won't allow, then I would tun around and find out from Cakewalk. I think you'll find that much of the problem is governed by the distributor and is out of Cakewalks hands (unless as mentioned tangible evidence is provided of improper service. Waiting for improvement is time wasted and achieves nothing ! 2003 to 2005 people have been waiting or ****ing... Can folks not see this ? I'm going to step aside and let the ****ing continue................................................................................2003................................2005............................
post edited by bermuda - 2005/08/05 10:23:13
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ac2004
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Killing the Company?
2005/08/05 15:28:16
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To all of our customers outside the United States,
Thank you for voicing your concerns with regard to Cakewalk International representation and distribution. Please know that we recognize the global challenge of simultaneous multi-lingual worldwide product announcements and releases, and, we are constantly working on improving our ability to do so. While we understand that the level of service varies from country to country, it is our objective that, in those countries where service is not consistent as or equal to our US representation today, we reach an acceptable level of service that is consistent with the higher expectations that you have come to expect and receive in many countries today already.
We are investigating some of the specific incidents that were reported, and, we agree that if the reports are true, actions need to be taken to correct them. Finally, there are some really exciting initiatives in progress at Cakewalk that will result in significant changes, marked improvement and more consistency from a global perspective that should resolve many of the issues that you discuss.
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ac2004
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 15:31:09
(permalink)
To all of our customers outside the United States,
Thank you for voicing your concerns with regard to Cakewalk International representation and distribution. Please know that we recognize the global challenge of simultaneous multi-lingual worldwide product announcements and releases, and, we are constantly working on improving our ability to do so. While we understand that the level of service varies from country to country, it is our objective that, in those countries where service is not consistent as or equal to our US representation today, we reach an acceptable level of service that is consistent with the higher expectations that you have come to expect and receive in many countries today already.
We are investigating some of the specific incidents that were reported, and, we agree that if the reports are true, actions need to be taken to correct them. Finally, there are some really exciting initiatives in progress at Cakewalk that will result in significant changes, marked improvement and more consistency from a global perspective that should resolve many of the issues that you discuss.
Anthony Conte
Cakewalk
Vice President-Sales
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Heliotrope
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 16:32:02
(permalink)
Hi all,
Interesting discussion - I have been looking seriously into Sonar to repalce SX (I'm freakin sick of it for various reasons - was a logic guy formerly) in the very near future. Intelliware is supposed to be the distro for NZ as well as Oz but if you walk into any pro audio shop (a joke here in NZ) you won't find ANY Intelliware products at all. I will be in a position to crossgrade in a couple of months or so and I'm looking more to Magix now for Samplitude if this distro thing doesn't get sorted. Intelliware have no presence here at all and with some of the MOTU gear that made it into shops was stupidly overpriced.
I have noticed a few kiwis here - how did you guys get Sonar and the upgrades?
Cheers,
H
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Killing the Company?
2005/08/05 16:37:18
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: glazfolk
So Pyro 5 is out to day. You can download it for $29, right?
Wrong! At least if you live outside the US.
Hi all - Just wanted to shed a little more light on the situation as it pertains specifically to Pyro 5: Due to handset and carrier restrictions, Pyro 5's ringtone functionality is only supported in North America. We are currently working to make Pyro 5 available in other countries and hope to have the first of these international versions available soon. If you are interested in using Pyro 5 outside of North America, and would like to be notified when international versions become available, please sign up for our mailing list I hope this helps explain why you can't yet buy Pyro 5 overseas (though I realize this isn't necessarily the core focus of this discussion). Thanks, Matt.
-- Matthew Mirande Cakewalk Product Manager
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Sticky Shed
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 16:49:26
(permalink)
I've been with Cakewalk since DOS 4.5 and after initially buying it through Protel, I've been ordering on-line without issue. About a week into NZ - Quicker than Protel could get it down from Ak to Wgtn! :-)
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glazfolk
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 18:32:11
(permalink)
We are investigating some of the specific incidents that were reported, and, we agree that if the reports are true, actions need to be taken to correct them. Finally, there are some really exciting initiatives in progress at Cakewalk that will result in significant changes, marked improvement and more consistency from a global perspective that should resolve many of the issues that you discuss.
Anthony Conte
Cakewalk
Vice President-Sales
At last an informative response from Cakewalk that suggests that somebody is taking these concerns seriously. Thank You!!. I really look forward to these initiatives and hope that they will indeed offer us an acceptable solution. ORIGINAL: bermuda
Some interesting stuff on Australia below:
http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/offon/australia/aushom.asp
Sorry, but I don't see what a link containing stories about large companies not lodging tax returns, or internal squabbles within Rupert Murdoch's Empire, or the conviction of a well known TV personality for insider trading can possibly have to say that is relevant to the issues being discussed here. Here is the relevant link regarding the Australian Tax situation when importing gear: http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4376
Geoff Francis - Huon Delta Studios AMD Opteron 246 2GHZ twin CPU Tyan S2875 AVRF Dual M'board 2 Gig RAM, Three Monitors w NVIDIA GeForce FX5700 Alesis iO26, 2 NTFS Seagate HD DigitalDesign Speakers
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glazfolk
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 18:39:56
(permalink)
ORIGINAL: Heliotrope
Hi all,
Interesting discussion - I have been looking seriously into Sonar to repalce SX (I'm freakin sick of it for various reasons - was a logic guy formerly) in the very near future. Intelliware is supposed to be the distro for NZ as well as Oz but if you walk into any pro audio shop (a joke here in NZ) you won't find ANY Intelliware products at all. I will be in a position to crossgrade in a couple of months or so and I'm looking more to Magix now for Samplitude if this distro thing doesn't get sorted. Intelliware have no presence here at all and with some of the MOTU gear that made it into shops was stupidly overpriced.
I have noticed a few kiwis here - how did you guys get Sonar and the upgrades?
Cheers,
H
Heliotrope, I'm in Oz, not NZ, but there are (perfectly legal) ways and means of doing this. However, I wouldn't feel comnfortable publishing the info here. Since Cake are currently making it difficult for us to buy their products, we have to use "cloak and dagger", as if you were getting hold of an illicit substance, for goodness sake. I do find Anthony Conte's post encouraging, however ... dare we hope? Meanwhile email me glazfolkATaustarnetDOTcomDOTau and we can talk some more.
Geoff Francis - Huon Delta Studios AMD Opteron 246 2GHZ twin CPU Tyan S2875 AVRF Dual M'board 2 Gig RAM, Three Monitors w NVIDIA GeForce FX5700 Alesis iO26, 2 NTFS Seagate HD DigitalDesign Speakers
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Mooch4056
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/05 18:45:01
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this is a long thread ...wow my two cents -- cake will get things over time distributed world wide more easily after the company grows -- and well like I said - that's my thought worth about 2 cents
post edited by Mooch4056 - 2005/08/05 18:50:29
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vmw
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/06 03:28:06
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ORIGINAL: bermuda
Many large companies Sony etc have branches or incorporporated entities in each country. Because they sell a shed load more than Music Software
Sorry, I don't know what your comments have to do with the issue at hand, plus they are not 100% accurate. I think you will find that in many countries a company name with SONY or ROLAND in it are private companies. They might be the distributor of the that brand and have agreements in place; but are owned locally - no ownership by their namesake.
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ColinB52
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/06 08:03:54
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Nice to see Cakewalk's marketing people are now aware.
I would ask that, when they investigate these problems, that they
don't just look at what appears to be happening, but actually try
to order something - that way you may truely understand some of the
problems, which at first sight are not evident.
The problems with recursive internet sites are rife. And I can confirm to
Bermuda that international distributors of Cakewalk products are
suggesting users buy competitive products - I sent a copy of the e-mail
I recieved suggesting that very thing to Cakewalks marketing department.
Once again, I will stress that I and many, many of the posters on this
subject are longstanding loyal Cakewalk users, who love the product and
the support, and our concerns at the International distribution are not
only our frustrations, but also, possibly the reason why Cakewalks penetration
into the International marketplace has not been as great as it could have been.
I don't know the number of International sales, but they must be fairly high in order to
justify the 'Euro' manual (another marketing failure, but not relevant to this thread).
So, if the current problems are enough to send just 1 in every 10 prospective
customers to the competition, that could still be a large number.
And my guess it would be nearer 30-40%.
I have no figures to support the above, I am sure Cakewalks marketing could
find them, but what I do know, is the volume of young people who are truely
interested in making their own music, and who see me running everything
through Sonar. At first they mock - Sonar! not as good as........, it can't do......
but soon their mood changes, into....
But it can't........And it hasn't got............
And slowly into.......
It can do that as well!!!!! Fantastic! Where do I buy it!
.........And there's the rub!
To the Marketing department, and Greg Hendershott, I say......
We, the Users of Cakewalk products, are the best Marketing team
you have. We love the product, we use the product, we show it
working, doing amazing things, to our friends, colleagues, and
anyone who shows an interest.
So, please fix this distribution problem, so we can say to those prospective
new Cakewalk users...... Oh, that's easy, you just contact........
And KNOW that it works, they will get a warm welcome, and be able to
easily purchase a copy of that Cakewalk product.
It's simple really, and if it was implemented could easily increase your
sales, and therefore market share.
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luismacedo
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/06 08:26:53
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ORIGINAL: ac2004
To all of our customers outside the United States,
Thank you for voicing your concerns with regard to Cakewalk International representation and distribution. Please know that we recognize the global challenge of simultaneous multi-lingual worldwide product announcements and releases, and, we are constantly working on improving our ability to do so. While we understand that the level of service varies from country to country, it is our objective that, in those countries where service is not consistent as or equal to our US representation today, we reach an acceptable level of service that is consistent with the higher expectations that you have come to expect and receive in many countries today already.
We are investigating some of the specific incidents that were reported, and, we agree that if the reports are true, actions need to be taken to correct them. Finally, there are some really exciting initiatives in progress at Cakewalk that will result in significant changes, marked improvement and more consistency from a global perspective that should resolve many of the issues that you discuss.
Anthony Conte
Cakewalk
Vice President-Sales
Hello Anthony! Thanks for your message. Where should we report this kind of things seriously? SONAR4 ordered on Jun, 26th not received up today. I was not used to this when dealing directly to CAKEWALK in the past. Best regards, LuÃs Macedo
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Mully
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/06 09:06:17
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Valid observsations Colin. I've shown a number of people my humble Sonar rig and they all get blown away AND I don't even know what I'm doing!!  There are just so many levels of usability I am constantly in the forum trying to pick up quicker methods to do things. Amazing program really. I was stunned that a major studio/supplier here in Adelaide didn't even know what Sonar was??? Great people but Sonar has a loooong way to go before it penetrates the PT fortress in South Australia at least. I had never heard of Intelliware for instance before jumping on the goodship Sonar. Cheers!
ASUS H270, i7-7700, JLM BA & 1290, LA2A Opto4, loads of guff.
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ac2004
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/08 15:23:43
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Dear Luis, I am assuming that you contacted our distributor, Roland Iberia, in Portugal June 26th. Not exactly sure why you have yet to receive SONAR 4 from them. Can I ask you to please try to contact them again? We have found Roland Iberia to be very helpful and responsive to their market. If you cannot get in touch with them or if they do not respond back to you in a timely manner, let's say within 24 hours, please let me know and I will follow-up with them personnally. BRANCH OFFICE - Porto Cais das Pedras, 8-9 1º Dto. 4050-465 Porto PORTUGAL Tel. (351) 226.080.060 Fax. (351) 226.080.075 Suporte a Produtos apaula@rolandiberia.com Suporte Técnico soporte_tecnico@rolandiberia.com Thank you for your patience as I look forward to resolving your outstanding issue. I'll check for your post within the next few days to see how you made out. Anthony
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luismacedo
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/08 20:11:09
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ORIGINAL: ac2004
Dear Luis,
...
I'll check for your post within the next few days to see how you made out.
Anthony
Hi Anthony, I GOT IT TODAY!!!!! Aug, 8th in the morning!  6 weeks from order to delivery. Much better than last year with SONAR3 - it tooks me 6 months waiting! I will contact RolandIberia (in Portugal) to see if next time (SONAR 5??) I have to give a try to Edirol UK instead. Anyway, thanks a lot for your reply. It is very good to know that Cakewalk is alive in this forum. BTW, I have noticed the printed manual is now in English/French/German. What a waste of paper! If it were 3 separated books I would send 2 of them directly into the trash bin. Also the size of the english part of the manual is much smaller than the SONAR3's manual Did you zip it? ... or do you have a better english manual for non-europeans? Can I have one of those? I was born in Africa Best regards and thank you once again, LuÃs Macedo
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LoopJunkie
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RE: Cakewalk International Distributon ... Still a Joke!
2005/08/08 20:21:53
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do you have a better english manual for non-europeans? Can I have one of those? From http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.asp?m=255150 Why do some regions get the printed manual with a mix of three languages? SONAR sales are growing outside the U.S. Using multi-language printed materials helps us supply products more flexibly in certain regions, while meeting local language requirements and regulations. This in turn helps us keep the prices lower than they would otherwise be (printing costs are much higher, per item, for smaller quantities). Longer term, we look forward to higher sales volumes and therefore the ability to supply more printed material on a per-country basis. Does the multi-language version omit any information? No. The full documentation is available in the PDF file for each language. Only a portion of these pages are printed out for you, but all of the information is provided in the PDF. In addition to using the reading and search functions of the PDF file, there a context-sensitive and searchable help feature available directly from SONAR. I want a printed book that contains all of the documentation pages from the PDF. Is this available? Printed versions of the full PDF manuals will be available soon for purchase through your local distributor. We will provide further details via email, web site and the discussion forum when they become available. In addition, your license agreement permits you to take the PDF to a local print/copy service shop, and make one book for your personal use. (Of course you may also print at your home or office if you prefer.) How do I purchase it? You must first register SONAR 4 with us at (http://www.cakewalk.com/Register/default.asp). Then, please contact you local distributor. Do I have to register SONAR 4 to purchase? Yes. Only registered SONAR 4 customers will be able to buy it. What will the price be? This is TBD but expect it to be US $30 or less including VAT. Our primary goal is to make this as affordable as possible.
loop
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