Helpful ReplyCakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status

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Tripecac
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2016/06/07 13:49:16 (permalink)

Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status

In April, I used Cakewalk's Problem Report form to log two bugs I found in Sonar Platinum.  As of today, the Problem Report page says the following about their status:
 
The current status of your report is
New
This is a new problem report. It has not yet been reviewed by Cakewalk.

 
How long does it usually take for Cakewalk to review its problem reports?

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#1
chuckebaby
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 17:27:55 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/06/07 21:34:45
mine have been reviewed as fast as a few days.
 
I just saw your other post telling a user  "Please do not upgrade"... and your other thread on a bug in the PRV.
is this real reason for this thread ?
 
I know everyone has issues, some more then others and I can appreciate people striving for greatness, wanting the product to be the best it can possibly be. but I don't think more threads, more comments are going to help that.
I do hope what ever your issue is (the problem reporter) gets resolved soon.
 
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#2
Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 17:40:15 (permalink)
Thanks for the kind post.  Sorry if my posts annoy. 
 
I am being deliberately "squeaky" in an attempt to draw Cakewalk's attention to the bugs I (and other people) have reported.  Once Cakewalk fixes the bugs my "negative attitude" will ago away, and I will spend less time on this forum seeking fixes and more time making music. 
 
I don't know how else to direct Cakewalk's attention to the bugs, other than by repeatedly bringing them up on the forum.  The "sanctioned" method of using the Cakewalk's Problem Reporter certainly didn't work (so far).  What else can I do? 

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#3
robert_e_bone
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 19:31:46 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby tenfoot 2016/06/07 21:33:00
They recently revamped their support response process, and likely regularly tweak it.  It seems that there are currently some ongoing issues affecting some folks from getting through to support.
 
They DO triage reported bugs, and how that is done I have no idea, other than that they seem to try to address bugs that affect wide swaths of folks - even putting together quick/hot fixes on occasion in a special maintenance release if a severe enough issue isn't detected until a given update version is released.
 
I happen to have a bug that I would do cartwheels on the front lawn if and when it gets fixed, but it doesn't ever bubble up high enough to warrant someone getting assigned to enhance/maintain that piece of code.  I DO happen to have a workaround for the issue, it is just messy.
 
In the meantime, I wait and hope for its resolution.  I LOVE working with Sonar, and have found the forum member community to be chock FULL of folks who work really hard to help each other with many/most aspects of using the products, including configuration changes, OS maintenance, issues, workarounds, and all sorts of other things.  GREAT community of folks with unmatched depth of knowledge.  I try to give back when I can, and many others approach helping the community in the same manner.
 
Bob Bone
 

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#4
Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 21:12:56 (permalink)
Out of curiosity, what is your bug?

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#5
robert_e_bone
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 21:43:05 (permalink)
Sure - I write a lot of prog tunes, many with multiple meter changes, such as 5/4, 7/4, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 15/16, and once even covered a Bruford song that was written mainly in 19/16.  It would be one thing to have only an occasional meter change, but I tend to have places in many songs where there are cycles that combine multiple meters into evolving/revolving sections of alternating meters.  (Steve Morse has a song with over 50 meter changes, as an example of others that do this kind of thing).
 
So, I create many of the tracks using the Step Sequencer, which currently ONLY allows for the use of a quarter note as the meter base, so it is a ROYAL pain to try to deal with any of the above meters that use an eighth-note as the meter base.
 
My workaround is to have to do a 9/8 measure as a measure of 9/4, which then would play back at half the desired tempo, so I have to also insert a tempo change to double the song's tempo at the point where the measure of 9/4 starts.  Then, after finishing with however many of those measures there are in a row, I have to insert another tempo change to reduce the tempo by half, in addition to the meter change back to 4/4 or whatever I was in.
 
The above makes printed scores look like I am an idiot, because nobody in their right mind would create a score with such a goofy meter and tempo change, where a normal 9/8 would have worked fine.
 
In addition, I quite frequently have songs where I will routinely alternate between 1 measure of perhaps 9/8, followed by a measure of 4/4, and alternate between them, or in any case end up with many many meter changes where I also have to do that stupid tempo doubling and halving.
 
Lastly, it is annoying to have to make sure when constructing songs that any doubled tempo is an even value - because cutting a tempo of 119 in half doesn't work too well.
 
But, as I had indicated - not that many folks do as many meter changes as I do, so I get that, and I DO have a workaround, it's just a pain.
 
Bob Bone
 

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#6
tenfoot
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 22:13:35 (permalink)
That's quite a workaround Bob! I have a couple of niggling issues that I reported last year. Despite the fact that they bother me, given that they are not showstoppers and they only affect me due to my workflow habits, I understand that there are certainly more pressing issues for the bakers to deal with. 
 
On the other hand I reported a problem with rendering bit rate changes that was fixed in the next update. Cakewalk certainly do rightly pay attention to the most pressing issues that affect the largest number of users. 

Bruce.
 
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#7
Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 22:21:09 (permalink)
Tripecac
Thanks for the kind post.  Sorry if my posts annoy. 
 
I am being deliberately "squeaky" in an attempt to draw Cakewalk's attention to the bugs I (and other people) have reported.  Once Cakewalk fixes the bugs my "negative attitude" will ago away, and I will spend less time on this forum seeking fixes and more time making music.

 
Negative attitudes seldom produce positive results, especially when it's presented in a context of "I'll stop being negative once Cakewalk fixes the bugs that I consider important."
 
I don't know how else to direct Cakewalk's attention to the bugs, other than by repeatedly bringing them up on the forum.  The "sanctioned" method of using the Cakewalk's Problem Reporter certainly didn't work (so far).  What else can I do? 



Bugs are in a queue. The order of the queue depends on multiple factors. The primary one is if large numbers of users are affected and it causes crashes or serious operational problem. Bugs with workarounds, and issues people refer to as "bugs" but are not, are low priority. All the rest fall somewhere in between. One person bringing up the same bug multiple times doesn't induce Cakewalk to prioritize the bug. Multiple people bringing up the same bug once does.
 
That bug you were complaining about that had something to do with track folders and inserting a track going outside of it was fixed. It's probably best to appreciate that some of the bug that affect you are being fixed, rather that being unhappy that not that all of them aren't, and get back to making music. People score movies, top-rated television shows, and create everything from sophisticated talking book projects to albums to sample libraries using SONAR.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#8
bitman
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 22:44:05 (permalink)
Craig, Just let people be people please.
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backwoods
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/07 22:45:35 (permalink)
craig's a person too don't you know batman 

 
#10
pwalpwal
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 07:02:06 (permalink)
to be fair, tripecac said he was, and apologised for, "being squeaky" (as in "a squeaky wheel gets oiled") and his old bug still has status "new" which means it hasn't been reviewed or prioritised yet, so how does he get attention to it other than on the forum?
/fwiw

just a sec

#11
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 08:57:32 (permalink)
I guess he'll just have to wait Paul.
 
If that's not good enough (for him) then he has a choice to make.

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#12
jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 09:46:48 (permalink)
I have reported approx. 12-15 bugs, some going back years.
 
They are all with reproduction recipe, most with other members saying they can also reproduce them. I always include links to the relevant threads in the problem report.
 
Most are set to "New" and have not been fixed.
Some are still "New" but HAVE been fixed.
One is set to "In Development" and has been for over a year, maybe two years now. Not fixed.
One was set to "As Designed" but nevertheless was fixed.
 
You just cannot tell.
post edited by jpetersen - 2016/06/08 10:08:01
#13
azslow3
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 09:56:59 (permalink)
Anderton
Bugs are in a queue. The order of the queue depends on multiple factors. The primary one is if large numbers of users are affected and it causes crashes or serious operational problem.

I understand OP question is exactly what you write here. With the current system, users need a Crystal Ball to know the bug is really queued. I do not propose to inform the user about the priority or progress, but at least 2 more statuses: "Queued" and "Fixed" could be helpful.
 

That bug you were complaining about that had something to do with track folders and inserting a track going outside of it was fixed. It's probably best to appreciate that some of the bug that affect you are being fixed, rather that being unhappy that not that all of them aren't, and get back to making music.

As a developer, I normally appreciate when someone find my bug. And keep the person informed about fixing, obviously not waiting for appreciation (that was my bug which has disturbed someone).
 
Cakewalk in fact behave the same way when they have such opportunity. It is Bug Submission System and Bug Tracking System interconnection which need some attention.
 
Also if everyone will start to check either every new version solve some bugs from the (usually long) list, people will have no time to make music
 

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#14
jpetersen
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 10:26:49 (permalink)
I can well imagine it becomes a problem when many people report different bugs with the same fundamental cause.
 
Who's gonna pay someone to go through the whole list and examine each bug, setting the status as appropriate?
 
Yes, I have written an issue tracking system.
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 10:31:08 (permalink)
bitman
Craig, Just let people be people please.



I was hoping that what I wrote would explain the process, and the OP would understand that "refreshing" a bug is a waste of his time that could be used to make music. Although I agree 100% that it would be great if the bug-fixing process was more transparent, given the resources available to fix bugs, taking the time to make the process more transparent would paradoxically take away resources from actually fixing the bugs.
 
I understand that many people here do not work with a software company, and so they have no frame of reference for the mechanics of how processes work. I certainly didn't until I got involved with Cakewalk on a level other than being a user. I try to communicate what I've learned in order to help de-mystify these processes.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 12:09:54 (permalink)
I was hoping that what I wrote would explain the process, and the OP would understand that

 
Sorry, but I'm not after explanations and excuses and accusations of ignorance.  I am after bug fixes.  That is why I am squeaking.
 
Someone in another topic said that he had to submit problem reports multiple times in order to finally get attention from "the bakers" (whose response time often makes them seem more like "the baked").  For that user, spamming via the Problem Report form is what worked.
 
Does anyone else have that experience?  Is resorting to sending multiple problem reports paraphrasing the same bug likely to decrease the baked's response time?
 
As a developer, I normally appreciate when someone find my bug. And keep the person informed about fixing, obviously not waiting for appreciation (that was my bug which has disturbed someone

 
I normally appreciate when testers find my bugs.  Not so much when end users find them, although it is gratifying to fix 'em for a "live audience" rather than just the QA team.
 
What I find on this darling forum is that whenever I post a bug or "I am missing this feature from 8.5.3" post, the forum's first general reaction is to point a finger back at me and say "it must be your computer" or "well, here is a multi-step workaround and if you are not content to accept the workaround rather than a fix then you are a mulish griping idiot".
 
Post a bug to Cakewalk.  Get ignored.
Post a bug to the forum.  Get insulted.
 
Not that I care about getting insulted.  Obviously.  I just care about getting my bleeping bugs fixed!

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#17
karma1959
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 13:13:26 (permalink)
Tripecac
I was hoping that what I wrote would explain the process, and the OP would understand that

 
Someone in another topic said that he had to submit problem reports multiple times in order to finally get attention from "the bakers" (whose response time often makes them seem more like "the baked").  For that user, spamming via the Problem Report form is what worked.


Hi, I think this was me.  For clarity, I meant to convey that I submitted a second tech support email if I didn't receive a response to the first one. I haven't submitted bug reports before, so can't comment on that objectively.  Apologies for any confusion. 
 
 

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#18
Glyn Barnes
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 14:19:42 (permalink)
My experience is unrelated to Cakewalk or any music software, but I used to sit in on sustaining meetings on some internal corporate software, I was there to argue the case for bugs or enhancements affecting my domain to be pushed up the list of priorities.  Sustaining and development were separate, development was totally dedicated to the next product unless a critical issue was detected.
 
It’s an insight into the way things have to work. It’s frustrating when you see your issues bypassed “for the greater good” but with the reasoning exposed one understands the business case.  In reality one knew most of the issues would never rise up the list far enough to be addressed.
 
The other thing was how much time was actually needed to address what seemed to the end user to be simple but annoying bugs. The bottom line was generally, if there is a work around it will never be fixed.
 
As much as we would like software companies to fix everything, I fear in the real world the way it has to work is similar to what I have outlined.

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#19
Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 16:22:31 (permalink)
Tripecac
I was hoping that what I wrote would explain the process, and the OP would understand that

 
Sorry, but I'm not after explanations and excuses and accusations of ignorance.  I am after bug fixes.  That is why I am squeaking.



I'm simply describing what I see as the reality of the situation, which is that if you just want bugs fixed, squeaking will make little, if any, difference. I don't want to see you wasting your time so I gave some reasons as to why I thought you were doing so with your approach.
 
If all you truly care about is seeing bugs fixed, I recommend that whenever you see someone else mention a bug you want fixed, PM them and encourage them to submit a bug report. Multiple people reporting one bug one time each will have much more weight than one person reporting one bug multiple times.
 
Remember the bug where the VX-64 and some other plug-ins could cause a massive pop on some occasions? I brought it up with Cakewalk and nothing happened. But there were other comments in the forum about the same problem. I copied the comments and sent them to CW, who then realized this was a significant problem affecting multiple users.
 
I then started a thread about it, and CW received enough information from users that they were able to isolate the source of the problem, reproduce it (not easy with an intermittent issue that occurs rarely), and fix it. I can guarantee that just me squeaking would not have fixed that bug, because it didn't. However ultimately if after gathering data on how companies handle bugs you believe squeaking will work better than what I recommend, then go ahead and squeak.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#20
bz2838
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 19:37:30 (permalink)
Tripecac
I was hoping that what I wrote would explain the process, and the OP would understand that

 
Sorry, but I'm not after explanations and excuses and accusations of ignorance.  I am after bug fixes.  That is why I am squeaking.
 
Someone in another topic said that he had to submit problem reports multiple times in order to finally get attention from "the bakers" (whose response time often makes them seem more like "the baked").  For that user, spamming via the Problem Report form is what worked.
 
Does anyone else have that experience?  Is resorting to sending multiple problem reports paraphrasing the same bug likely to decrease the baked's response time?
 
As a developer, I normally appreciate when someone find my bug. And keep the person informed about fixing, obviously not waiting for appreciation (that was my bug which has disturbed someone

 
I normally appreciate when testers find my bugs.  Not so much when end users find them, although it is gratifying to fix 'em for a "live audience" rather than just the QA team.
 
What I find on this darling forum is that whenever I post a bug or "I am missing this feature from 8.5.3" post, the forum's first general reaction is to point a finger back at me and say "it must be your computer" or "well, here is a multi-step workaround and if you are not content to accept the workaround rather than a fix then you are a mulish griping idiot".
 
Post a bug to Cakewalk.  Get ignored.
Post a bug to the forum.  Get insulted.
 
Not that I care about getting insulted.  Obviously.  I just care about getting my bleeping bugs fixed!


You seem to have more problems with Sonar than most people, if I had as much trouble with a program as you seem to have with Sonar, I would move on to another DAW, just sayin'.........

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#21
Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 20:00:15 (permalink)
I think many of my problems stem from the fact that I do a lot of real-time PRV editing, so anything that requires extra keypresses or workarounds is super-annoying.
 
Usually I record a jam or loop, and then listen back to it, fixing note timings, velocities, and pitches during playback.  I like to work quickly (since I limited time to devote to music), so keeping playback going is part of that.  Any time I have to stop playback I get frustrated.
 
I found 8.5.3 really good at letting me edit things without having to rewind or stop playback very often.  For whatever reasons, X1/2/3 caused more interruptions, and Platinum is even worse.
 
Sonar can be used in many different ways.  I use it as a soft synth sequencer and spend all of my time with the piano roll view on one monitor and track view in the other.  I don't use console view, staff view, step sequencer, preset MIDI loops, mastering plugins, autotune, or the majority of the plugins and features which have been advertised recently.  Just the piano roll, track view, and soft synth windows, which are mostly Native Instruments rather than Cakewalk.  And the occasion CAL script (e.g., adjust note volumes).
 
Given that I use a *very* limited feature set, I am perhaps more sensitive than other people when one of those features is "acting up".  Other people think of Sonar as a HUGE suite of stuff.  I basically think of Sonar as a sequencer.  I want that sequencer to work smoothly, consistently, and predictably.  8.5.3 was great.  It did everything I needed.  X1 broke some things for me.  Platinum has broken more. 
 
I miss 8.5.3 but I don't want to go back to it, because that would mean all the money I have spent since 8.5.3 has been a waste.  I would prefer if Cakewalk would add back what they took away and fix what they broke. I have already posted (multiple times) what specific features I would like to see fixed, so I won't repeat them here.  But they are mostly about the same thing: trying to prevent interruptions when editing in the PRV during playback.

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#22
backwoods
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 20:53:56 (permalink)
please link to the post where you indicated what was neglected tripecac-- I may be able to plus one some of your complaints

 
#23
Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 21:04:28 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby backwoods 2016/06/08 21:28:52

tripecac.com
Sonar Platinum + Komplete 9
Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


#24
backwoods
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 21:11:58 (permalink)
Thanks tripecac --- I'll explore tonight and rereport what I can reproduce

 
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Anderton
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 22:48:33 (permalink)
Tripecac - The explanation of how you use SONAR explains a lot. Along the same lines, I've been "squeaking" about a "drum machine mode" for MIDI where you can loop and edit in the PRV while still seeing what was recorded previously. I use the Step Sequencer instead because it fulfills pretty much what I want, but there are times that using the PRV would be more appropriate. You may find that rewiring Reason into SONAR gives you the best of both worlds. 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
#26
Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/08 23:51:20 (permalink)
MIDI where you can loop and edit in the PRV while still seeing what was recorded previously.

That would be awesome!
 
I believe Logic has that functionality, at least the version I tried about 15 years ago! :)

tripecac.com
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Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


#27
ChristopherM
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/09 08:08:51 (permalink)
Tripecac
In April, I used Cakewalk's Problem Report form to log two bugs I found in Sonar Platinum.  As of today, the Problem Report page says the following about their status:
 
The current status of your report is
New
This is a new problem report. It has not yet been reviewed by Cakewalk.

 
How long does it usually take for Cakewalk to review its problem reports?


 I agree that this is very annoying. It feels to me like an utter waste of time carefully writing along the lines that Cakewalk suggests, if months and months go by with no-one even having acknowledged the report.
#28
williamcopper
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/09 11:07:14 (permalink)
Just a message of support:  me too.    Report a problem, taking the time to reproduce it carefully and fill out the problem report?  It's ignored.    Describe it on this forum?   The regulars pile on, showing why you're wrong about how you describe it, how you use the program, and also that there's a work-around (see above, right here in this thread: work-around = never fixed; so, regulars saying "work-around" hurts you, hurts me).   Complain about it on the forum?  You're a pest.     Criticize the program and the programmers?   A slew of fans accusing you of all kinds of things.      
 
I never fill out a problem report any more; less and less often do I come here and complain.    I still use Sonar, I still send them money when asked, but I have zero loyalty to a company that does zero good for me.    One of these days I'll find another option for the special ways I use a sequencer, and I won't look back.     Sonar 5-8 were really pretty good programs, in retrospect, and sure, i like 64 bit systems and more processing power and way more memory, but CW didn't provide that. 
#29
Tripecac
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Re: Cakewalk Problem Report - Sonar bugs from months ago still have "New" status 2016/06/09 12:22:19 (permalink)
williamcopper - That's exactly how I feel.  Must be a Virginia thing! :)  (I'm originally from Charlottesville)
 
Have you contemplated switching to Logic?  When I used it in 2000 or 2001, I was very impressed, although at first its UI felt more "alien" than Cakewalk Pro Audio did (since Logic was more Mac-based and CW's program was more Windows-based).  The reason I ultimately chose Cakewalk was because Logic abandoned its Windows support.  If I had a Mac now (which I don't) I'd definitely try Logic now; I loved the customisability!  Of course, I don't know how Logic had changed over the years...  Maybe, like Sonar, it got a "makeover" which turned it from the intellectual girl next door into the unapproachable dumb blonde (which all the forum regulars drool after).

tripecac.com
Sonar Platinum + Komplete 9
Win7 SP1 64bit, Intel i7 950 3.07GHz, 12 GB RAM, M-Audio Delta44 (for Sonar), ASUS Xonar DX (for everything else), Nvidia GTX970, 2xSSD, 3xSATA


#30
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