Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened?

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brian brock
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2014/01/07 12:03:25 (permalink)

Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened?

UAD effects are presenting numerous issues in Sonar X3.  Three that come up often are the "-21" error message when inserting a non-UAD plugin between two UAD plugins, a crash or other mischief when using UAD effects in ProChannel fX chains, and disabling of UAD plugins in Aux Sends at certain times.  I have been trying to figure out what went wrong and what workarounds exist, if any.
 
At the moment, I think the only solid way to use UAD effects in Sonar X3 is to use no later than version 6.3 of the UAD software.  Unfortunately this is still 32 bits, so it's necessary to either bridge to 64 bits or use X3 in 32 bits.  UAD version 6.3.1 is the first update which offers "UAD plug-in chaining", which seems to have broken Sonar's implementation of UAD fx.  One other workaround that may work for some issues is to uncheck "Always stream audio through FX" in Sonar preferences, and be sure never to add any plugin while the transport is running.
 
Cakewalk and UA have each stated that they will make changes to coming versions of their software to address the issues people are having.  One can only hope that they communicate about their respective changes, so that the net result of both taking action will be a resolution, and not just a new set of problems.
 
Now I will speculate about what went wrong.
 
It seems to me that, in the absence of communication between the companies, Cakewalk continued to use the "custom chaining API" which they developed with UA, while UA changed their implementation of it without telling Cakewalk.
 
Around the time when X2 was released UA stopped "qualifying" as many hosts as it once did.  At one point I believe the only qualified hosts were Nuendo/Cubase 6.5 and Pro Tools 10, or some such thing.  So before that point, the UAD driver was actively looking for Sonar, and upon finding it took some steps to adapt to the so-called custom API.  When Cakewalk released Sonar X2, UA still took steps to add a flag for it in the driver, but the relationship seems to have broken down completely since then.  (UAD version 6.3.1 was released one month after Sonar X2.)
 
Why did Cakewalk and UA stop working together?  That seems to be the question. 
 
I think that UA may well have grown frustrated with Cakewalk, as there are other ways in which Sonar does not play nice with UAD effects.  For example, the "true mono" issue - Sonar's implementation of mono is very different from Cubase's (Sonar essentially just uses the left channel of a stereo plugin, while Cubase uses a mono instance of the plugin), and this is why in Sonar one must use the mono versions of UAD effects on mono tracks, because stereo plugins more or less double the DSP resources needed.  This "true mono" issue affects other plugins as well, although not as severely.  Cakewalk seems reluctant to change this implementation (and I think in some ways the Sonar system is better).  This and perhaps other issues may have eventually frustrated UA so that they gave up on Sonar - at one point (the same point in time when they changed their qualification standards) they even refused to provide mono dlls of their more recent effects; fortunately they relented on that point.
 
Moving forward, I think that if Cakewalk wants to provide a DAW which can incorporate UAD effects, without some change in the relationship, they will have to be more quickly reactive to changes in the UAD system in the future.  I don't think it would be a bad idea to attempt to become a qualified host, but some sort of basic functionality at least seems necessary. 
 
Frankly, I think UAD effects are not in the preeminent position they once were.  For example, Native Instruments now has pretty decent emulations of many of the same machines UA is known for emulating.  Still, I think that in order for Cakewalk to continue to market Sonar as a "pro" DAW - the top of its line of music software - they need to accommodate UA for the time being.  One can only hope that UA will go native in a year or two, solving many of the problems it creates, though that seems unlikely.
post edited by brian brock - 2014/01/07 13:56:48
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    Splat
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 12:11:11 (permalink)
    Hello so this is the fourth UAD thread created (or more), and I notice Brian you are on all of these threads.


    You've just commented here:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/UAD-Plugins-in-FX-chain-are-disabled-on-opening-project-in-X3d-but-dont-show-as-disabled-m2952764.aspx
     
    and here:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/UAD-aux-sends-disabled-in-X3-and-where-the-buck-stops-m2961478.aspx
     
    For instance.
     
    This is getting like spam and I'm getting rather annoyed having to read this every day. You have your answer from Cakewalk, this is a UAD issue and Cakewalk have already said what they are going to do, so please go and complain at the UAD forums instead...
     
    Here is a perfectly acceptable answer, please live with it.
     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    Its possible that this issue is also a side effect of the plugin chaining API. All versions of SONAR since 8.5 use this custom UA API that we implemented for them years ago.
     
    I was in touch with UA fairly recently about this and their response was that this API is no longer actively supported by them at the host level and only used by them internally now. I was also told that they would add a remedy from their end. From our side I have now removed custom UA chaining support from SONAR for the next X3 update so hopefully this shouldn't be an issue going forward.
    BTW this isn't really specific to X3 technically - the only reason that you see a difference in behavior is because the UAD driver seems to be testing for a specific SONAR version and masking the error messages - which is why the some UAD warning messages started popping up in X3.


     
    You are also quite capable of rolling back to earlier drivers in the meantime.
    Also I haven't seen anything written about Cake and UAD's relationship being strained in any of the statements, so I assume this is pure speculation.
     
    Sorry but if I see the letters UAD again I might explode
     
    Thanks... 
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/07 12:26:58

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    brian brock
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 12:25:20 (permalink)
    Since you don't use UAD effects, it may be time for you to stop reading about whether they work with Sonar or not.  You certainly don't have to read them every day.  Now that I have done the work to figure out what is going wrong with using these effects in this software, I don't intend to think about it any more.  However, I felt that it might be helpful for other people - those who are actually trying to use these effects in this software - to have a single place collecting most of this information.
     
    I think I have adequately explained in what way these problems are not a Cakewalk or a UA issue, but have been caused by a failure to communicate between them.  I have also speculated about when and why they stopped communicating.
     
    Again, I'm sorry if it's frustrating to you, but I am simply trying to work something out here.  Fortunately for us both, you don't have to read or contribute to this or any UAD-related thread.
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 12:27:30 (permalink)
    Your information may or may not be helpful Brian, but please stop creating new threads about it. We already have far too many and information is being spread extremely thinly now (and there's a lot of repetition causing a lot of confusion). I would have thought the thread where the Cakewalk statement actually is would be thread to target which is where the real facts lay (not the invented speculation). By creating yet another thread you are fragmenting the issue further, Cakewalks statement to me seems pretty conclusive no need to recap.
     
    In fact if forum Admin is available it would be nice if these threads could get merged.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/07 12:35:48

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    brian brock
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 12:39:27 (permalink)
    Thanks for your help.  I try not to spend too much time on internet forums, so I must have made a faux pas.  Thankfully, I believe I've worked out, more or less, what's going wrong in this case, so I can get back to doing other things. 
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    melmyers
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 13:01:32 (permalink)
    To the jury, I say this: The great thing about topic descriptions on the forum is that you don't have to waste time with anything that doesn't interest or concern you. Brian Brock has done a superior job of summing up the UAD/X3 situation here. The information he's posted here IS helpful and concise. The other threads on this topic have become long, fragmented, confusing and hard to follow.
     
    Of the 34 current posts in the thread at this link http://forum.cakewalk.com/UAD-Plugins-in-FX-chain-are-disabled-on-opening-project-in-X3d-but-dont-show-as-disabled-m2952764.aspx, 8 of them are from CakeAlexS, who owns absolutely no UAD gear. (That's nearly 1/4 of the total posts!) If anyone is finding these UAD/X3 threads to be a waste of time, quit reading them. No one is making you involve yourself in something you know nothing about. And frankly, when you constantly post with nothing of substance to add, you waste everyone else's time.
     
    The last time I checked, this forum was for ALL Sonar users, and we don't need permission to seek clear solutions to problems.  
    post edited by melmyers - 2014/01/07 13:10:09

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    Anderton
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 13:50:18 (permalink)
    To answer the question, when UA qualifies a system, they pretty much test every parameter of every plug-in in every context they can think of. It's very time-consuming, and UA is not a huge company. As a result, they limit qualified systems to the DAWs used by the majority of their users. They expect their products to work with other programs, and do some degree of testing, but ultimately the solution is what's happening: Problems are found and quantified, relayed to Cakewalk and UA, and they figure out a fix (as they've done in the past).
     
    I am using UA's plugs but simply avoid the things that people say cause problems, like putting a non-UA effect in between UA effects.
     
    Also remember that UA effects are inherently a different animal because they're hardware-based rather than native. So trying to do something like a faster-than-real-time bounce is iffy. That used to never work for me, then it worked sometimes, but I just decided to do real time bounces with UA plugs.

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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:24:37 (permalink)
    melmyers
    8 of them are from CakeAlexS, who owns absolutely no UAD gear. (That's nearly 1/4 of the total posts!) If anyone is finding these UAD/X3 threads to be a waste of time


     
    That's it kill the messenger and the person who tries to help you...
    I'm the guy who originally suggest this remember? and from this came quite a debate... Didn't appear useless at the time.
     
    X3 -> Edit -> Preferences -> Audio -> Playback and recording -> Turn off "Always stream audio through FX".
     
    I didn't see a individual person contribute much more than this. Sorry but you don't necessarily have to own the gear in order to troubleshoot or help people. Anyway you are (predictably and sadly) making this personal and diverting away from my point.
     
    For anybody who is reading this, please read the other threads to get some balance, and please don't trust what you read here.
     
    PLEASE STOP CREATING NEW THREADS ON UAD OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
     
    And  please stop spreading disinformation to suit your arguments!
    I know I'm any easy target as I'm always on these forums, so go ahead say something else to counteract.... And now you've got a brand new thread you can say anything because nobody is going to bother to read the other threads to find out what you are saying is true!
     
    Thankyou
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/07 14:31:49

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    brian brock
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:35:12 (permalink)
    Sorry to have caused such consternation.  Thanks for letting me try to work out this issue, and yes, unchecking "Always stream audio through FX" was a helpful contribution to the process.  Good job, Alex.
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:40:09 (permalink)
    Nothing personal either Brian, I just get frustrated because the situation gets really confusing. This thread is an example. One person has just said I was useless, and another helpful. And now in order to back my statements up I have to go over to another thread or maybe the other to get my facts straight....  And Cake's statement is on one of the threads... can't remember which.... arghh! :)

    I feel sorry that the UAD situation is not optimal at present, but I really think until UAD pulls finger or Cake releases X3E then it's just a waiting game (or roll back the drivers). I can't see the situations being any clearer until either or both these scenarios take place.

    Cheers..

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    fooman
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:44:12 (permalink)
    I honestly was happy to read this.
    I use 6.3.1 with X3c 32-bit in Windsor 7 64-bit and receive no issues as of now (fingers crossed hard).
    I would like to use X3c 64bit, but I do NOT want to update my software because things work right now and I continue to see UAD issue threads on here.
     
    I think Cakewalk should employ CakeAlexS haha.  Dude, or dudette, has been all over the baords trying to hunt and solve issues like a bandit.  Awesome!  However, without owning any UAD hardware and using it very regularly, as I and many other do, please keep in mind we are all mostly thousands of dollars invested into this system of plugins and are kinda peeved about issues that hang around for months.
     
    If you think about it, we have all invested more into UAD than Cakewalk because their hardware and (mostly) all of their most-used plugins are pricey relative to the competition.  So when things continue to be buggy, this board is our only outlet.

    Finally, I will say that UA is awesome for support.  If you have an issue, call em.  Only reason I haven't called to ask is because I live in Canada and it costs to much to ask about 'potential' issues haha
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    ampfixer
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:45:18 (permalink)
    Alex, you have to remember that it's not your responsibility to monitor all the posts or take charge of bug reports. You don't have UAD plugs, then you shouldn't be posting in the discussion whatever your reason. You really want to lighten up a bit, ok?

    Regards, John 
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    brian brock
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:47:39 (permalink)
    Please don't feel it necessary to follow UAD-related issues if they are not affecting you.  I for one am content with where things are with respect to workarounds, and I'm hopeful that fixes will come soon from both companies.
     
    Since you asked, here is Noel Borthwick's recent comment about some UAD issues:
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2963116
    "Danny is right. Its possible that this issue is also a side effect of the plugin chaining API. All versions of SONAR since 8.5 use this custom UA API that we implemented for them years ago. 
     
    I was in touch with UA fairly recently about this and their response was that this API is no longer actively supported by them at the host level and only used by them internally now. I was also told that they would add a remedy from their end. From our side I have now removed custom UA chaining support from SONAR for the next X3 update so hopefully this shouldn't be an issue going forward.
    BTW this isn't really specific to X3 technically - the only reason that you see a difference in behavior is because the UAD driver seems to be testing for a specific SONAR version and masking the error messages - which is why the some UAD warning messages started popping up in X3."
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:51:34 (permalink)
    ampfixer
    Alex, you have to remember that it's not your responsibility to monitor all the posts or take charge of bug reports.

     
    I agree.
     
    ampfixer
    You don't have UAD plugs, then you shouldn't be posting in the discussion whatever your reason.



    May I refer you to #8 and #9 which proves that I don't have to own UAD gear in order to contribute. Please check the other threads, don't just take one persons word for it. You would think a person who has time to count the number of posts would also have enough time to check his facts.
     
    ampfixer
     You really want to lighten up a bit, ok?

     

    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/07 15:00:33

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    fooman
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:52:10 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    Nothing personal either Brian, I just get frustrated because the situation gets really confusing. This thread is an example. One person has just said I was useless, and another helpful. And now in order to back my statements up I have to go over to another thread or maybe the other to get my facts straight....  And Cake's statement is on one of the threads... can't remember which.... arghh! :)

    I feel sorry that the UAD situation is not optimal at present, but I really think until UAD pulls finger or Cake releases X3E then it's just a waiting game (or roll back the drivers). I can't see the situations being any clearer until either or both these scenarios take place.

    Cheers..

    I'd also like to point out that for UAD, rolling back the drivers often requires a new $300+ plugin you just bought sitting collecting virtual dust.  So I can see this being a real issue for a LOT of UAD owners.  This is not a 'work-around'.  This is a waste of money.
     
    They just handed out $50 vouchers.  I can't buy anything I want to because my drivers are so outdated.  But... they work for me at the moment so I'll continue on with what I got.
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 14:54:04 (permalink)
    I appreciate the situation is frustrating...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    jb101
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 15:03:58 (permalink)
    3 out of 8 (37.5%).
    post edited by jb101 - 2014/01/07 15:13:09

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    markyzno
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 15:05:00 (permalink)
    ampfixer
    Alex, you have to remember that it's not your responsibility to monitor all the posts or take charge of bug reports. You don't have UAD plugs, then you shouldn't be posting in the discussion whatever your reason. You really want to lighten up a bit, ok?




    +1 I would second this.

    Alex, you are doing a sterling job in your efforts on the forum and as a community i'm sure I can speak for nearly all that its much appreciated, but having said that, you arent the mod of the board... Maybe a touch of restraint on some of the threads that dont concern you personally and with experience so you can let the threads take their natural progression?

    Just a jolly heads up to you and no offence intended. 

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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 15:10:11 (permalink)
    #14

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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 15:22:04 (permalink)
    Well, Alex does go overboard some times....
     
    OTOH, gratuitous whining is even worse.

    laudem Deo
    #20
    markyzno
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 15:24:15 (permalink)
    The problem with this thread was as soon as Alex posted his first reply I could just feel the way this thread would pan out.


    *Sigh*

    Just leave it all with UAD/Sonar.

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    #21
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 15:24:36 (permalink)
    SuperG
    Well, Alex does go overboard some times....



    I agree with that as well  Somebody should kick him off our forums!
    End of the day facts are facts sorry if they prove offensive to some but I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves rather than play pointy fingers at people or engage in speculation, or trust what person X says about person Y. That's what wastes time. Pretty much every comment I have made has been backed up.

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    SuperG
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 16:48:06 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    SuperG
    Well, Alex does go overboard some times....



    I agree with that as well  Somebody should kick him off our forums!
    End of the day facts are facts sorry if they prove offensive to some but I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves rather than play pointy fingers at people or engage in speculation, or trust what person X says about person Y. That's what wastes time. Pretty much every comment I have made has been backed up.




    That the whining wastes time is a given, it's just that some posts simply come off as if the poster believes they are of superior importance than the rest of us and their concerns should be everyone's most immediate cause. It's not insensitivity on my part (trust me, I'm a bleeding heart), it's quite the other way around.

    laudem Deo
    #23
    mmorgan
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 17:03:01 (permalink)
    melmyers
    To the jury, I say this: The great thing about topic descriptions on the forum is that you don't have to waste time with anything that doesn't interest or concern you. Brian Brock has done a superior job of summing up the UAD/X3 situation here. The information he's posted here IS helpful and concise. The other threads on this topic have become long, fragmented, confusing and hard to follow.
     
    Of the 34 current posts in the thread at this link http://forum.cakewalk.com/UAD-Plugins-in-FX-chain-are-disabled-on-opening-project-in-X3d-but-dont-show-as-disabled-m2952764.aspx, 8 of them are from CakeAlexS, who owns absolutely no UAD gear. (That's nearly 1/4 of the total posts!) If anyone is finding these UAD/X3 threads to be a waste of time, quit reading them. No one is making you involve yourself in something you know nothing about. And frankly, when you constantly post with nothing of substance to add, you waste everyone else's time.
     
    The last time I checked, this forum was for ALL Sonar users, and we don't need permission to seek clear solutions to problems.  




    Well said Mr. Myers
     
    As someone who no longer uses UAD products due to a move away from a laptop based DAW (with PMCCIA type card from UAD) to a larger unit I quite often consider whether I would like to get a UAD card for my full featured DAW. I found Brian's OP to be very helpful in regard to my continuing thought process about UAD products.
     
    Regards,
     


    Mike

    Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
    #24
    Splat
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 17:17:59 (permalink)
    mmorgan
    melmyers
    To the jury, I say this: The great thing about topic descriptions on the forum is that you don't have to waste time with anything that doesn't interest or concern you. Brian Brock has done a superior job of summing up the UAD/X3 situation here. The information he's posted here IS helpful and concise. The other threads on this topic have become long, fragmented, confusing and hard to follow.
     
    Of the 34 current posts in the thread at this link http://forum.cakewalk.com/UAD-Plugins-in-FX-chain-are-disabled-on-opening-project-in-X3d-but-dont-show-as-disabled-m2952764.aspx, 8 of them are from CakeAlexS, who owns absolutely no UAD gear. (That's nearly 1/4 of the total posts!) If anyone is finding these UAD/X3 threads to be a waste of time, quit reading them. No one is making you involve yourself in something you know nothing about. And frankly, when you constantly post with nothing of substance to add, you waste everyone else's time.
     
    The last time I checked, this forum was for ALL Sonar users, and we don't need permission to seek clear solutions to problems.  




    Well said Mr. Myers
     
    As someone who no longer uses UAD products due to a move away from a laptop based DAW (with PMCCIA type card from UAD) to a larger unit I quite often consider whether I would like to get a UAD card for my full featured DAW. I found Brian's OP to be very helpful in regard to my continuing thought process about UAD products.
     
    Regards,
     




    Check #14 again. And so the disinformation spreads... Eventually it will become true...
     
    brian brock
    Sorry to have caused such consternation.  Thanks for letting me try to work out this issue, and yes, unchecking "Always stream audio through FX" was a helpful contribution to the process.  Good job, Alex.




    Mustn't forget the smiley :) 
     
    To those who jump on the bandwagon on direct attacks towards fellow forum members, I suggest you do your homework first...
    There clearly is an agenda, look under the covers.
    Saying you can't help somebody with hardware or software X because you don't own or use hardware or software X is ridiculous as long as you bring something to the table, I did, those who are commenting about this, didn't. What the melmyers says is totally false.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/07 17:37:50

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #25
    bobgassert
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 17:58:10 (permalink)
    DAW Computer $2000.00,,,,,,,,, Upgrading Cakewalk Software with addons over that last 15 years $2000.00,,,,,,,,,Waves Plugins $5500.00,,,,,,,Wavelab $500.00,,,,,,,Using $6600.00 worth of UAD powered plugins and hardware with Sonar X3 (Priceless!!!!!) 
     

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    #26
    melmyers
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 19:15:22 (permalink)
    X3 -> Edit -> Preferences -> Audio -> Playback and recording -> Turn off "Always stream audio through FX" doesn't fix anything on my system.
     
    "You are also quite capable of rolling back to earlier drivers in the meantime." Yes, but then we'll lose 64-bit functionality, and (as fooman pointed out) any new plugins purchased in subsequent updates, like Oxford Inflator, Ocean Way Studios, Pultec MkII, API Channel Strip and others. It's hard to be happy about spending hundreds of dollars in the past few months on plugins that can't be used.
     
    Any reasonable person would agree that it's not too much to ask that we actually be able to utilize the deep investments some of us have made in both Sonar and UAD, and that both companies be more forthcoming about why the problems exist and why they're taking months to fix. In the absence of the-whole-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth, people will draw their own conclusions. You can't change human nature.
     
    If people who don't even own UAD systems are getting frustrated just reading about our problems, imagine how we feel, left out in the cold by UA and Cakewalk after thousands of dollars of investment.
     

    Mel Myers
    Producer/Songwriter/Voiceover Talent
    Sonar Platinum 64-bit/Intel Quad Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 16GB RAM/LGA1155 Motherboard/Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit /Focusrite 18i20/Cakewalk A-800 Pro/UAD-2 Quad PCIe/& a black and white Pomeranian who thinks he's the boss
    #27
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 19:23:20 (permalink)
    melmyers
    X3 -> Edit -> Preferences -> Audio -> Playback and recording -> Turn off "Always stream audio through FX" doesn't fix anything on my system.

     
    X3 -> Edit -> Preferences -> Audio -> Playback and recording -> Turn off "Always stream audio through FX" doesn't fix anything on my system.
     
    Oh so that gives you the right to tell everybody else that I contributed nothing when to others it did find it helpful, and do some sort of post count that somehow proves that I'm being unhelpful??? Nice angle but as you or I know, or anybody else who has read the threads - deeply unfair and flawed, still it suited your agenda didn't it?? Which leads to the next paragraphs you write.
     
     
    melmyers
    "You are also quite capable of rolling back to earlier drivers in the meantime." Yes, but then we'll lose 64-bit functionality, and (as fooman pointed out) any new plugins purchased in subsequent updates, like Oxford Inflator, Ocean Way Studios, Pultec MkII, API Channel Strip and others. It's hard to be happy about spending hundreds of dollars in the past few months on plugins that can't be used.

     
    What you say is understandable and I'm sure deeply frustrating.
    Still it is a valid workaround, I say WORKAROUND, not solution.
     
     
    melmyers
     Any reasonable person would agree that it's not too much to ask that we actually be able to utilize the deep investments some of us have made in both Sonar and UAD, and that both companies be more forthcoming about why the problems exist and why they're taking months to fix. In the absence of the-whole-truth-and-nothing-but-the-truth, people will draw their own conclusions. You can't change human nature.
     
    If people who don't even own UAD systems are getting frustrated just reading about our problems, imagine how we feel, left out in the cold by UA and Cakewalk after thousands of dollars of investment.
     

     
    To say you are left out in the cold by Cakewalk is TOTALY FALSE, did you actually read what they said? (thread #2).
    Let me paste it again..
     
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
    Its possible that this issue is also a side effect of the plugin chaining API. All versions of SONAR since 8.5 use this custom UA API that we implemented for them years ago.
     
    I was in touch with UA fairly recently about this and their response was that this API is no longer actively supported by them at the host level and only used by them internally now. I was also told that they would add a remedy from their end. From our side I have now removed custom UA chaining support from SONAR for the next X3 update so hopefully this shouldn't be an issue going forward.
    BTW this isn't really specific to X3 technically - the only reason that you see a difference in behavior is because the UAD driver seems to be testing for a specific SONAR version and masking the error messages - which is why the some UAD warning messages started popping up in X3.


     
     
     
    Go and have a good moan on UAD's forums... I have heard quite enough from you. Cake already made their statement and  told you what they and UAD is going to do, so do what you wish to achieve by stating your issue over and over and over again, thread after thread, and biting the hand off people who try to help you. It will get nowhere. Go and make music.
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/01/07 19:43:03

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #28
    benjaminfrog
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 19:44:47 (permalink)
    Anderton
    I am using UA's plugs but simply avoid the things that people say cause problems, like putting a non-UA effect in between UA effects.
     



    Hi, Craig. The way I understood the explanation of this I got from Noel was that this is actually just a notification regarding additional latency (for hosts that do not have automatic delay compensation), that UA had suppressed this message for previous versions of Sonar, but hasn't updated the code yet to account for X3. So, unless I misunderstood him, the pop-up is annoying, but doesn't actually indicate that the chain of plugins won't work.

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    #29
    melmyers
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    Re: Cakewalk and Universal Audio - what happened? 2014/01/07 19:59:55 (permalink)
    There you go again, CakeAlexS. You've made 10 of the 29 posts so far in this thread, many simply being defensive and condescending to those of us who only want UAD & X3 to work like they should together.
     
    And if there's a negative tone here, you started it. "I'm getting rather annoyed" "go and complain at the UAD forums instead" "live with it" "if I see the letters UAD again I might explode" "Your information may or may not be helpful"
     
    I will say no more about this. From the looks of some of the other posts here, people are correctly drawing their own conclusions. They don't need you or me to tell them what to think.

    Mel Myers
    Producer/Songwriter/Voiceover Talent
    Sonar Platinum 64-bit/Intel Quad Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz 16GB RAM/LGA1155 Motherboard/Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit /Focusrite 18i20/Cakewalk A-800 Pro/UAD-2 Quad PCIe/& a black and white Pomeranian who thinks he's the boss
    #30
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