UAD aux sends disabled in X3 and where the buck stops

edit - the problem I bring up here can be worked around by turning off "Always stream audio through FX".  See page 2 for steps to reproduce this issue.
 
I reported to Cakewalk some time ago that UAD effects on tracks will sometimes be disabled when a UAD reverb effect is added {edit - actually it's the other way around}.  I've read a number of other people having this issue, and it was never a problem in X2 on the same system.  Today I received a reply that Cakewalk thinks this is a "system specific problem or configuration issue".  I doubt that this is a problem with my system, and anyway I've re-installed UAD and re-scanned plugins. 
 
I rather suspect there's a bit of a problem with delay compensation, and I think a UA effect might have been disabled when I used a different non-UAD large-latency-inducing effect.   I really hope this isn't a sign that Cakewalk is just going to kick the can down the road on UAD problems.  I can imagine that there isn't a huge overlap between their markets, but I would hope that Cakewalk at least considers it in their interest to keep compatibility with effects from companies like UA, Waves, Fabfilter, etc...
 
On the other hand, perhaps there is something I can change in my system to get rid of these problems.  Maybe the disabling-UAD effect problem only happens at certain buffer sizes?  Has anyone else figured out anything here?  Has anyone contacted tech support about UAD problems (other than the "non-UAD effect between UAD effects" thing)?

We're not all having exactly the same problems, but many of us are definitely crippled when trying to utilize our UAD investment with Sonar X3.
 
Your communication with Cakewalk has been more recent than mine, and I find it interesting that they are now telling you they think it's a "system specific problem or configuration issue"...when they told me back on November 21st that my difficulties are due to a few things they planned to address in the next update or two. 
 
I had been giving Cakewalk the benefit of the doubt, but if they are going to, as you suggest, "kick the can down the road on UAD problems," they are going to lose me. Through direct communication with both UA and Cakewalk, I had been led to believe that UA was taking charge and would be delivering a solution, but the more I think about it, Cakewalk certainly has a role in this bad situation, because the UAD system works with X2, but not X3.
 
It would be nice to hear from UA and Cakewalk that "we are in communications and are both working together on a solution", but I haven't heard that from either yet.
 

Without a doubt, UA and CAKE have been pointing to each other on whose issue this is meanwhile, it remains unresolved. Not a show stopper but a real nuisance and wish one of these teams will step up and provide a fix sooner than later.
 
JK

Hey Cakewalk! I know someone from the home office is reading this. You've seen this topic popping up on a regular basis now.
 
Can there be a solution for those of us who want to use UAD & Sonar X3 together without problems? Are you working on it? Have you talked to UA about it? Are we just out-of-luck and no one has the balls to tell us yet?

Check #6...
 
Also
 
> UAD problem report coming back as "Contact Technical Support"
 
If this was reported via Cakewalk problem reporter I'm not at all surprised this has bounced back to be honest.
So has technical support been contacted as recommended by Cakewalk?

 > inserted some UAD plug-ins
 
Are they exactly the same UAD versions that you are using in X3D? Are you pointing to the same plugin folder in X2 and in X3D? Did you have the issue in X3C? Is X2 and X3 64 bit and the plugins 64 bit?
 
Again, I ask Cakewalk to speak up on this and quit making us hunt in the dark for our own answers.
 
They might not have the answers, they certainly don't have access to the third party source code. Has anybody contacted technical support yet?? The OP has been advised to contact tech support, he should do so.

I would still like to know if this issue happens in X3C before the MIDI out issue was fixed in X3D (or any other earlier version of Sonar X3).

As I've made clear in several other postings, I have reported my UAD/Sonar X3 problem in great detail to technical support at both Universal Audio and Cakewalk. Both have responded that they are aware of the difficulties, and that the problem is widespread.   
 
The problem has existed on my system with all versions of X3, up to and including d. I am using 64-bit versions of X2 & X3. In what time I've been able to spare from work, I have tried to troubleshoot this thing myself, trying all kinds of experiments. I completely uninstalled the UAD stuff from my system (so there could be no other versions), reinstalled and tested again with X2 & X3 pointing to exactly the same folders. No improvement. I've done everything that has been suggested to me, and then some. And I made sure that the lack of improvement was communicated to both UA and Cakewalk support, so they would know there's still work to be done.
 
I completely agree with you that Cakewalk might not have the answers, but it's time for them to at least say something specific. I would like direct answers to the questions I posed earlier, "Can there be a solution for those of us who want to use UAD & Sonar X3 together without problems? Are you working on it? Have you talked to UA about it? Are we just out-of-luck and no one has the balls to tell us yet?"
 
I don't know about anyone else, but I first alerted Cakewalk to the problem nearly three months ago on October 9, 2013, and contacted UA tech support on October 13. Meanwhile, my favorite DAW doesn't work with my favorite plug-ins, and I'm starting to lose respect for both.
 
 

If UAD Worked fine in X2 but not in X3 wouldn't that be an X3 problem? The Latency warning pops up so much I even have it pop up twice on export and every time I create a Melodyne clip  . I  don't understand why these plugin makers don't take Sonar seriously It blows away the competition . I have Pro Tools 10 and 11 and Studio One and Sonar has the best performance , and the gain staging is More like the analog world, Stock plugins are fantastic , But we will always use other plugs, Like a guitar player likes that blend of brands of pedals to make that special sound , 

I've just recently started using my studio setup as it nears reconstruction after relocating.

This is a clean system installation of Win 8.1 x64 with the latest UAD 7.4.

I'm unable to reproduce any of the current crop of complaints. I can run UAD plugs with other cakewalk and 3rd party plugins even if there is a single UAD plugin between 2 waves plugins. UAD fx chains work as expected without crashing or locking up Sonars GUI. Also the one reported in this thread of including a reverb specifically in an fx bin.

I don't know whether it's 7.4 that is responsible for this stability or that my system was a fresh installation.

I know that the early problems with UAD and sonar X3 on release were confirmed by both sides but perhaps the current reported issues are system specific and the earlier ones have been resolved. I'll report any new findings as I continue to shake out my new but still developing studio setup.

yes X3D ,windows update ,,,UAD version 7.4 , RESCAN . tweaked preference till it wouldn't run anymore ( had to reset) Reinstalled Sonar . built new computer ...tried everything I can think of ,,,, even installed on different machine .... even reinstalled UAD Cards . its a X3 thing .... I wish I could go back to X2 but X3 is too good to sacrifice .   meanwhile endless banner warnings and loss of plugin delay compensation

I've replied to similar threads often.   When you add a UAD plugin either directly or via a plugin chain and you notice things acting up such as latency, non-responsive plug in etc, just toggle the FX button and for me, everything works after that perfectly. So you are disabling all plugins in your project at once and then re-enabling them. I have a TON of UAD plugins running the equivalent of 5 UAD cards.  This works EVERY time. Also, you only usually need to do this once after you inserted the plugin and doesn't have continually be toggled.  The only issue that is still there is the -21 error which is annoying but I can live with that.  Otherwise, I enjoy the UAD stuff immensely and use them all the time with X3d

also it strikes me that the reason the -21 uad latency error message wasn't fixed in UAD 7.4 is that UA must be working on something more comprehensive for these problems, since from what I hear the fix for the -21 error was simply to add an exception in the code for X3, the same way an exception was previously added for X2.  That seems simple enough to do, but to fix that without fixing the rest of the problems would be asking for trouble...

I feel for you guys. As a UAD user, I've had a few issues myself but I don't use my UAD stuff in Pro Channel so I never have to deal with this. I can tell you a few things I sort of found out over the past few months. I don't know how true any of this stuff may be right now, but within the past few months, this is what I was told.
 
UAD and Sonar: When I contacted Sonar support about my UAD issues, I was told that UAD uses this thing called a "chaining API" that allows it to talk to the next plug in the chain. This can sometimes wreak some havoc and one of our bakers was working on a remedy for this. I do not know if it was finished by the time X3D came out, but I reported the problem (some of my UAD issues were on my end which I fixed by X3D) and I was told it's on UAD's end because their plugs do not work like other plugs...but there was a way to fix it by bypassing the chain API so the plug would behave like all the other plugs we use. When or if this will be/has been addressed, I have no idea...but I reported UAD issues and that's what I was told by a pretty powerful Baker.
 
UAD's report on it's issues and Sonar: "We don't test on Sonar in house anymore, so we can't really tell you if or when a fix may happen. We are aware of the problems people have with UAD in X2 and X3 though."
 
Danny to UAD Rep: "I'll beta test for you guys for free as I have all the plugs from you that I need. You went from having a special Sonar switch in your UAD control panel to not testing at all in house? C'mon, I'm sure the Cakewalk staff will accommodate if you can please try to work this out with them. If I can do anything to help, please let me know as we have quite a few UAD users in our Sonar community and I don't mind doing whatever I can."
 
UAD Rep: "Thanks, I'll definitely see what can be done about this and will keep you posted. If we need any additional beta testers, I'll let you know."
 
So that's all I can add to this discussion. I tried guys....I would have dedicated whatever I could to get these UAD issues resolved. Heck I can't even beg to be a beta tester for free these days! LOL!! Incidentally, I will try the Pro Channel thing with UAD to see if it happens on my end. I just use them in my track FX bins without any issues right now. I've noticed some latency issues as well as mono tracks NEEDING to be stereo interleaved or I get this demon, slowed down thing on a track. Stereo interleave fixes it, but it only seems to happen on UAD plugs where you have a mono track and use a stereo UAD plug. I'll report back with my findings when I try the stuff you guys have been talking about. I've been following the UAD issue threads, I just haven't had time to try some of the stuff you guys have been talking about. I'll be in touch.
 
-Danny

to be clear, the problem I'm having happens when using only the FX bin.
 
Danny, you're saying you use UAD effects extensively and have never had problems with them disabling themselves?
 
Do you use UAD reverbs?  For some reason the problems I have are usually when a reverb is in an aux send - possibly they use the UAD chaining api differently?  I assumed it had to do with the additional latency of running a track through an aux send with UA effect when the track also has a uad plugin.
 
 
 
I think stereo/mono interleave problems are a different thing - in general Sonar has a nonstandard (ie, "different from Cubase") implementation of mono, and this creates various problems.
 
 
thanks for your report on your use of, experiments with, and communications regarding this - it has to get fixed eventually...