Jeff Evans
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 08:34:10
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Hi Janet. Firstly I think Rus has certainly over complicated the situation and Samhayman has also to a certain extent. (Sam is a way better composer though) Rus is trying to impress us with his theory knowledge but in fact when you listen to his music it sounds way simpler than anything that he has been talking about here. Chord substitutions are not a good place to start, end of story. Also the technical names of chords is also quite unnecessary. Rus has not given any advice in any order of learning. Take it slowly first, right back to basics. A good simple place to start is you mention that you are using 3 chords often within a key. (maybe a fourth!) Every major key has 7 chords present. Chords are best remembered by their chord number. eg I Chord, II Chord, III chord etc so in the key of C start by thinking triads first. Chords are I Maj (Maj 7) II Min (Min 7) III Min (Min 7) IV Maj (Maj 7) V Maj (Dom 7) VI Min (Min 7) VII Dim (Half dim) So for a start we now have 7 chords instead of 4 so that is more. Learn to use all the scale chords rather than just a few. eg just using triads only there are three chord types present. Major, Minor and Diminished. Try using the diminished chord, it has got that leave you hanging feeling, use it! With seventh chords there are 4 chord types now, Major, Minor, Dominant and half Diminished, extra chord colour now, the Dominant chord! (Bluesy!) If you apply this to all 12 keys now you have 84 chords available to you. By using the I chord, II chord approach etc you can apply this easily to all 12 keys. A lot more now than the 3 or 4 you were using before. Many chords are in several keys. They are good chords to do key changes. (eg A Min is the II chord in G Maj but it is also the III chord in F Maj and also the VI chord in C Maj etc, what a great way to do key changes without anyone knowing what you are up to) Add the 4th note to these and the seventh chords all emerge now and they are more colourful. (Chord names in brackets above) Bristol makes an excellent point. Stop thinking chord progression first. Good music or songs are rarely formed that way. Think melody first. Don't be afraid to make a chromatic jump melody wise. It just means you are in a new key, even if its temporary. Practice creating melodies and finding the right chords to fit. Try and create melodies that have emotional appeal and effect you emotionally. That is the trick. Sometimes the most simple melodies over basic chord progressions are powerful. That has nothing to do with heavy theory! (Check out Gotye, songs like Somebody I used to Know to see what I mean. Nothing hard or complicated about that is there but wow what a song.) Herb also brings up an excellent point too in his post. You can use any chord from any key as long as it sounds good. You are not obliged to only use the scale chords from any given key. If it sounds good then that is fine. (Miles Davis used a very unrelated chord in one of his tunes once and after many attempts to analyse it by experts he was finally asked where did that chord come from and why did you use it and he simply said because I thought it sounded good at the time!) That will keep you busy for yonks. Now once you have got all that down do it all again with the minor keys. Except there are 3 minor scales now for each key. Once you have got all that down then you could possibly look at chord substitution or re harmonization. But that is a long way off. You can't substitute or re harmonize any chords until you have all the stuff I have mentioned down first. Another good place to study is the blues forms and the chords that usually exist within a blues progression. Another great thing to do is transcribe the melodies and chords from songs you know and love. You will learn more about music that way than any other approach. (Watch out for Steely Dan though, they will keep you busy for years) The modes are also a very worthwhile thing to get into as well. These are the scales that form over the scale chords. What is interesting about the modes is the Tone/Semitone relationship between all the notes and the sound that is created out of them. Also what all the parts are doing rhythmically behind the melody and chord progressions is the real interesting part. Once again check out all the songs on Gotye's album Making Mirrors. Often quite simple melodies and chords but fascinating rhythm parts going on behind. This is where nearly everyone falls down. I hear a lot of nice melodies and chords but what the parts are doing rhythmically in most people's music is dull and boring and been done to death a million times before, get out of that and come up with some more interesting ideas there.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/09/11 10:01:02
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 12:02:55
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^ You're right, but you could say that regarding lots of people which it boils down to opinion. Classical pianists, Jazz pianists, Guitarists, etc. My theory rhetoric isn't any more trying to impress somebody then a 10 minute solo. However, I get the feeling you think I mean, she should use all of this stuff immediately. I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's out there and here's what it is if she decides to use it. And, you're dropping a list of what to use, too. It's not as in-depth and I'm not saying it doesn't impress me or that you're trying to. All I did was explain and apply the techniques. Somehow the application part turned into trying to impress. I'm not against taking things slow, but I am one of those persons who lays everything out on the table allowing you to pick up whatever amount at a time, hoping you eventually get all of it. I'm not trying to impress. That to me is a cop out. I write like this. Most of you who've heard my tracks can identify me instantly (whether you like them or not). I'm not gonna "dial it down," so not to impress somebody. I will explain why I write/analyze the way I do though: 1. I like the sense of beginning and ending (even if this doesn't happen) CMaj9-A7b9-Dm7-G13b9-C (I-VI(V7/ii)-ii-V-I) CMaj9-Dbdim7-Dm7-Db7#9-C (I-bII-ii-bII(subV/V)-I CMaj9-A7#5b9-AbMaj9-G7b9-CMaj9 (I-VI(V7/ii)-bVI-V-I) All three have a completeness to them. Em7-Edim7-Dm7-E-C (iii-iiio-ii-III-I) How are there three iiis in this progression? There's no "movement." However, they are subs which is why they do work, but that to me looks odd. [The III and iiio don't exist when not in the function context) I don't mind analyzing in a simpler manner; however, you're just hearing it. you could say every composer who uses the techniques mentioned (whether composing or performing) are using such to impress people, but you aren't against the "if it sounds good, it is good" philosophy either. You can stick more than one label for a note, chord or key. "He's trying to prove something by playing in seven sharps instead of five flats." Makes no difference if you're just hearing, but if you are seeing it, yes it does make a difference. I'm merely explaining the what to use, how to use it and why to use it because people do ask. I never said, you have to use it. I'm not upset and I still don't disagree with what you said because I do tend to overspeak, overemphasize which does lead to puzzlement. I'm used to such responses, but there are a few different ways to approach what Janet is trying to accomplish. Which route she takes is up to her. We can merely suggest which ones.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Alegria
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 12:23:01
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"Rus W" Go there if you dare! Thanks for the link. Looks interesting at first glance. Addition :: The iBreaththeMusic.com link that is.
post edited by Alegria - 2012/09/11 12:24:07
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 12:40:52
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jamesg1213
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 12:45:50
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As Jonesey and Jeff have mentioned, a good way to avoid 'the usual chords' is to start with the melody, and fit chords to it. I think a lot of the time 'muscle memory' can take over and you end up heading for tried and tested progressions.
Jyemz Thrombold's Patented Brisk Weather Pantaloonettes with Inclementometer
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batsbrew
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 12:49:30
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try your hand at learning some classic Steely Dan that'll do it buy a song book, and go at it.....
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spacealf
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 13:25:56
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And what happened to the Augmented Chord (the Diminished was mentioned)?? (transitional chords) Transitional chords - you can play I, IV, V, or go the long way and stick some other chords in there and eventually get to the IV, or the V. Then you start playing 4 note chords, then 5 note chords, and then you twist your fingers around and play 6 notes with one 5 finger hand. Someone wanted to play jazz on a trumpet and wanted me to stick these chords in a free form flow (no beat actually), but I never heard back from him. So although boring here those 6 note chords in a video for the heck of it I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qFicKq2fQ Don't ask what those chords are though, I did it in midi first of all or else I could not tell again what was played anyway. I think I did figure it out one day but anymore I can't remember. Figure it out some day again someday perhaps. Got to give credit to some jazz players they always come up with sticking other chords in to get somewhere else with the normal chords. Someone stated that to make music, "sit down and make mistakes". (those mistakes are really never done on purpose but) That way you come up with something different and even sometimes it will sound better (or you may incorporate it into the song) because you got out of the rut of having been bombarded with the usual I, IV, V, which one day got old and sickening although it is played more than anything else. I am sure jazz players put real effort into finding different chords for a progression. Anything else I do not know, but usually sometimes try and figure it out.
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 13:28:20
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Thanks for all your ideas, guys. I'm sure I can glean plenty here to keep me busy for eons. Whether I'll stick to it or not is the question...but I am curious about your opinions. And if I glean one or two new tricks, then that's good. The mistakes, Herb...yes, I've come up with some pretty cool chords quite by accident. A better musician would probably know to go there, but... Sometimes I've just started on the black keys to get new ideas. As for starting with melody, then adding chords...I guess I sorta do that, but quickly get stuck in the same ol' chord ruts, which is why I posed this question. But let's please not start throwing things at each other around here. Any answer is good (to me) and quite welcome...long, short, in between, advanced, beginners, proud, humble...whatever...it makes no difference to me. I really just wanna hear ideas from you good musicians. I can and will, pick and choose as I see fit and have time and inclination. So, thanks. :)
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spacealf
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 13:36:41
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Keep paper with pencil or pen notes (harder to do than it is actually done though it seems).
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michaelhanson
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 15:43:06
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So, Janet, I know you are a keys player, so I am not sure this would translate to you. Sometimes when I am not sure where I want to go with a progression next, like switching to a chorus or bridge, I will use the bass strings to try out patterns. Basically, play the root notes on the bass strings or actual bass. I simplify down to one string and what note might sound interesting as the chord change. Not sure if that makes sense. From there, I will then dive into deciding if the chord is a major, minor, 7th, what ever might make the progression more interesting or fit the mood of your words better. Obviously, I chould just look at a chord progression chart for some suggestions or ideas, but I find that simplifying and then really listening to the root notes helps me to figure out where my ear wants to go.
post edited by MakeShift - 2012/09/11 15:44:58
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 17:38:42
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spacealf And what happened to the Augmented Chord (the Diminished was mentioned)?? (transitional chords) Transitional chords - you can play I, IV, V, or go the long way and stick some other chords in there and eventually get to the IV, or the V. Then you start playing 4 note chords, then 5 note chords, and then you twist your fingers around and play 6 notes with one 5 finger hand. Someone wanted to play jazz on a trumpet and wanted me to stick these chords in a free form flow (no beat actually), but I never heard back from him. So although boring here those 6 note chords in a video for the heck of it I guess: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73qFicKq2fQ Don't ask what those chords are though, I did it in midi first of all or else I could not tell again what was played anyway. I think I did figure it out one day but anymore I can't remember. Figure it out some day again someday perhaps. Got to give credit to some jazz players they always come up with sticking other chords in to get somewhere else with the normal chords. Someone stated that to make music, "sit down and make mistakes". (those mistakes are really never done on purpose but) That way you come up with something different and even sometimes it will sound better (or you may incorporate it into the song) because you got out of the rut of having been bombarded with the usual I, IV, V, which one day got old and sickening although it is played more than anything else. I am sure jazz players put real effort into finding different chords for a progression. Anything else I do not know, but usually sometimes try and figure it out. Eventually, the other four (technically, three - V/vii essentially are the same chord and the viio in triad from is rarely used). The reason the augmented wasn't mentioned (by me anyway) is the same reason the viio triad is rarely used. The augmented chord has been used and has its use, but more than likely, the chord in question is bigger than a triad. CMaj7#5 or CmMaj9, In the first chord, the augmentation is obvious; however, you have to pull apart the second to find its augmentation. It's the 7th - but take away the root - it's the fifth and (EbMaj7#5) it looks and sounds just like the first chord (CMaj7#5) despite having a different root. You're right about also being a transitional chord (the fifth chromatically ascending to become the third of the next chord, most often times a fourth above it - C-Caug-F or C9sus-C7#5#9-C7#5b9-FMaj9 - 5-#5-3) And I totally agree with making mistakes, but I'd go further to say to make them on purpose to see if you want them. Improvisation must have changed if this doesn't occur. The altered chords Herb and I mentioned have not-so-good sounding notes; however, it's not impossible to make them sound good which is why improvisers sound like they do. This brings up the whole Consonance/Dissonance (ie: Tension/Release) issue and I think we can all agree that there needs to be a balance between the two. "Take the good with the bad and ugly," as they say. This is the crux of Janet's dilemma! Oh, I-IV-V! Oh, I-IV-V My pieces sound happy and bright ... Oh I-IV-V! Oh, I-IV-V! My progressions are lifeless and dry ... The extensions, subs, alterations, turn down/up the brightness/darkness not to mention the other three chords in-between - ii/iii/vi Same with a minor key - despite the darker tonality. i-iv-v You're bringing me down I'm sick of being your clown I'm gonna start jerking you around ... These are clearly anecdotal references, but to me they clearly describe her dilemma. And it's not just Jazz guys! True other genres don't use extensions, subs and/or alterations are often, but outside of rock/metal, they are used. The whole "Jazz Chord" is an egregious misnomer. "Color Chord" sounds more universal. I put effort into the progressions I use - not being fancy just to be, but to bring life into what would have a been a lifeless progression and all the techniques and applied examples do this. Here's an idea for you, Janet: Run the harmonized scales (Major and Natural Minor for now) forwards and backwards, then randomly play them to see which ones pair up best. I realize I've stated which ones do, but if you go by that, you will begin to think and not just play. Or as I've frequently said on the IBM forum, study songs. An example would be "Lean On Me" which is I-ii-iii-IV-V. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPoTGyWT0Cg
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 17:44:08
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What I am suggesting is to work through some concepts in some sort of order. The order I was taught I always found to be very good and reliable. It is one thing to put a whole lot of information out there but it is another to work through it in some sort of logical order. There is nothing wrong with the information that Rus and Sam has provided us, it is great info but when you do you start working with it. After doing some other stuff first that is all I am saying. spacealf has brought up a good question in what about the augmented chord. Answer is very simple. This chord does not really make itself known until you do the work I have suggested with scale chords in the minor keys. It is not present in the Major keys at all. It does not manifest itself until you get to the Melodic (Jazz) minor and the Harmonic minor scales. It is the bIII chord which happens to be Major 7 #5 chord. In the key of C the bIII chord is EbMaj7#5. Or without the seventh added it is simple Eb Aug. Still nothing to stop you using it in a Major context as well. Try using it instead of any of the Major chords that exist within the major key. Does it sound OK with the melody at that point? The 3 minor scales (Harmonic, Melodic, Natural) throw up some great sounding chords. For major scales we have heard: Major 7, Minor 7, Dominant 7 and Half Diminished. But with these minor keys we now have these extra chord colours. Minor Major 7, Major 7 #5, Minor 6, Dominant 7 b9, Whole diminished. Very nice sounding chords. Voicing the chords is also another story. Each major key has a relative minor a minor third down so that opens up another 7 scale chords. (with those extra chord colours) A melody may step into a minor tonality at any time. As soon as it does there are another 7 scale chords at your disposal. So for any give key now there are really 14 scale chords for you to put under melody notes. Not bad eh! Better then the 3 or 4 chords that Janet started out using. And that is without even doing a key change yet. Every time you do a key change you have got another 14 scales chords available. Makeshift also brings up another great point about bass lines. A really great way to come up with interesting chord progressions is to create the bass line or bass movement first. Treat the bass line as a melody. Then figure out what key you are in and when you are stepping out of that key as well. Bass line can be chromatic too. Janet, what happens when you sing or play the bass lines to your songs that tend to sound the same. Answer. Bass lines are all the same and a bit boring and uninteresting. If you are someone who likes to create chords first before melody and there is nothing wrong with that either then start with an interesting bass line melody. That will lead you to interesting chord changes which in turn will create interesting melodies on top. jamesg1213 also brings up a very important point about muscle memory that leads you to standard chord progressions. So true! Mike, (to your post below) yes lovely way to experiment and yes very good way to come up with interesting sounds. I just wish you would sing more! You are such a nice singer Mike!
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2012/09/11 22:07:13
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 17:58:19
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I don't know enough theory to do much other than observe this conversation, but one technique I have enjoyed over the years is to play what most would call a simple chord progression while voicing a melody over the chords in such a way as to make fancier harmonies that, in my limited scoped of under standing, more or less seem to end up acting as examples of the fancy chords some are speaking of. I just do it by ear and smile when it sounds good. Thoughts? Comments? Is that a valid way to understand some of it? best regards, mike
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timidi
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 18:40:00
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My suggestion for Janet would be to learn songs. the Beatles comes to mind. Of course a thorough understanding of theory is useful also. There is nothing wrong with 1 4 5. See, I didn't know all your songs were 1 4 5... Really? Anyway, what I got from your query was the desire to get outside the box. Not sure if your box is 1 4 5 or just standard tonality in general. By that I mean, The song is in a KEY.. If it's in a key and stays in that key, it is still in a box IMO. I have the same dilemma sometimes, in that 'tonal' can be very bland. It's the little variations outside of the tonal center that really can spice things up. Or, you could just play what you always play but change the bass notes. C/A F/G G/E er sumpin...:) There are a lot of standard out of the box progressions also. C E7 F G,- C Em F Ab, - C A7 Fm G7. Some have become so standard that they're really not out of the box anymore. Anyway (again) theory, songs, and time are the way I think. Sorry to ramble nonsensically.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 20:34:49
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My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 21:03:11
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@ Beags: I did say start with scales! lol Seriously, I went ahead a few chapters and I apologize, but no shame in looking ahead either, so you'll know what you're getting into when you get there. Honestly, I just said what came to mind. That whole "Bravado" thing got to me. I know you meant well though. No hard feelings? @ TMidi That's the odd thing with music. Just like the mobster says in that commercial: "Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me right back in!" And also the "makes sense" part comes in when you figure out what is happening. Those three progressions didn't appear odd at all since I knew what was happening and mentally listening. That's what your mind and ear do.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 22:10:39
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Thanks again, everyone! A few notes: Mike (Makeshift)...I play the bass now too, so yeah, that makes sense. :) Tim, I really do need to learn more songs and then learn the chords and write them down. If only I didn't always have 15 things I either want or need to do at the same time. :( But this is going on the list for sure. ;) And yes, I guess I meant in the key...I do actually throw minors in there too. :) And I even throw in slash chords, so maybe I'm not as bland as I thought. Well, yeah I am. lol Jeff...logical order, yeah, that makes sense. I'll figure something out when I make myself sit down and do it! Herb: Jazz??!! Well, maybe. Most of it drives me crazy. Sorry. Rus and Sam and Jeff...I'll get back to you in a few weeks or so. :) (just got a cello and I'm trying to practice 30 minutes a day, so any extra time I might have is going there.)
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 22:55:24
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How about both of you theory guys make me sick, intimidate me and....did I mention you make me sick/green with envy? LOL! :) I'm hoping to change all that though as my good friend Beeps wrote me up some killer material that should help my sorry @ss with theory. I do pretty good for an ear player, but it's about time I try and connect the dots. :) You guys rule! We're all in this for the same reasons...to help, teach, learn and explain it how we've lived it. :) Janet: Learning progressions for me was a matter of jamming with other players. Youy get forced to play what they play and once you play something, you usually never forget it. You can then hear that progression played by someone else and you just know what it is. For example, there are a few different variations of 12 bar blues. However, once you hear/learn one of them, you just know the others and can usually figure them out by stumbling around for a few secs. But the best thing for me to learn progressions was to just play to songs I liked on one string or one note on a piano. Just so I got the feel of what root notes were used as well as the progression changes etc. Then once I got the root notes down, I'd go back and change them into chords. You'll be amazed once you do this...at how many chord structures turn out to be very similar just using different notes. Try it sometime, it's pretty cool. Good luck. :) -Danny
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 23:01:13
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Yeah, I'm beginning to think that would be a great idea, Danny. (playing along to songs I like.) (I don't get much time to just jam with others for the heck of it.) And I didn't mean to sound so whiny in my last post, like all you guys have given me so much work to do and when will I find the time?? Agh! Silly me...I ASKED for ideas! :) Anyway, I need to just make time for this, like I make time for practicing, etc. You guys have given me great ideas to start. Thank you!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 07:29:16
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"Herb: Jazz??!! Well, maybe. Most of it drives me crazy. Sorry." Hi Janet, I had been holding off making any suggestions in the midst of such a discussion but this comment struck a nerve. 1) I think listening to a wider variety of music helps you play a wider variety of music. 2) Jazz IS the history of modern music. Jazz has something for listeners of all experience. The scope of Jazz includes the most straight forward chord progressions through to the most challenging ones to listen too. Jazz starts with the church hymns, invents rock and roll, informs RnB, and finally set a standard that "prog" is still trying to aspire to. BTW, Did you know that Bill Munroe considered "bluegrass" to be his form of Jazz? Jazz IS the history of 20th century music. 3) Many people listen to Jazz that is too complicated for their taste and then wholly dismiss it. It is really important that one starts their Jazz listening adventures at a place in Jazz history where they are naturally comfortable and find familiar harmonies. and that brings me to... The American Song Book which the study of will fulfill many of the recommendations offered here by so many others. You can start with the older straight forward progressions from the 1930's which are effused with soul and spirit and then gradually follow along as the harmonies and melodies become more and more complex. I was fortunate enough to have mentors that were able to introduce me to listening to Jazz on a step by step basis... guys would literally hand me a record and state "if you liked that you are now ready for this". Those guys made it possible for me to hear the progression and eventually tolerate and even enjoy the most challenging stuff. I should warn you though... if you become a Jazz listening enthusiast you will come to expect listening to music to be a fulfilling experience that offers harmonic richness, complex texture, and invigorating melodies... it may make you think a lot of music is un fulfilling. That can be a curse of sorts... but when you get to that point you can always go off and listen to "world music". For example; I've been listening to Ravi Shankar's first album from 1956 repeatedly recently because it seems like medicine for the mind. It didn't always sound so good to me but now I crave it. I have found that listening to music, and learning to listen and enjoy to the best parts of any particular style of music has directly informed my playing. I play by ear and often stumble on melodies and harmonies and recognize their "value" because I have heard and enjoyed similar harmonies played well in the past. Listening makes that happen for me. Developing an ear for listening is a big step towards learning how to listen to your self. I used to get to mix for a trumpet player named Marsallis... he'd bring a real good band with him. I got lucky and learned to really enjoy the stuff that I assume drives you crazy. I encourage you to take some of Herb's good advice and listen to some type of Jazz, what ever style you find most comfortable, and see where that takes you. Check out some Billy Holiday recordings... if the melodies are too crazy, work back wards. If not dig in and, as Danny has suggested, play along and jam with the band. all the best, mike
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 07:35:32
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OK, point taken. I promise to listen to jazz. :) Thanks!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 08:07:39
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 08:21:25
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Jazz covers such a wide area when it comes to music...... One of my GO TO sites for listening to music is YOU TUBE. I simply typed in JAZZ to the search and this video was one of the first that popped up Herbie Hancock ... he plays piano and is widely acclaimed for his skills http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrgP1u5YWEg HH is jazz fusion and some of it is pretty technically advanced.... but listen to the colors in the chords..... listen to the chord changes. Not your typical 1-4-5 stuff but still based on it. You could spend every day for the next 10 years just listening to all the stuff in the jazz world on YT... Find a player you like and study their styling a bit. The goal is not to get it all in one week but to add new things you pick up from others over time.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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timidi
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 09:16:24
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spacealf
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 10:36:40
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spacealf
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 11:27:18
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And Guitarhacker is right, jazz covers quite a bit of area, but I although listen to all kinds of music, I like some Smooth Jazz also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_60E9deXWTQ with the previous drummer - Joel Rosenblat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeRDcHoN6YY album (Down the Wire) before the newest album out of all the about 35 albums over the years with the new drummer - Bonnie Bonaparte Scott Ambush - bass (wrote the song) Jay Breckenstein - Saxes (leader) Julio Fernandez - guitars Tom Schuman - synths - keyboards (all of them write their songs)
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 12:04:19
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I can feel at least one new Pandora station coming on... :)
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batsbrew
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 12:08:39
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 12:29:02
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Here's a site, you could try: http://www.musictheory.net/lessons I've played around with this sometimes. It covers alot, but Chords, Diatonic Chords and Chord Progressions may be your area to look into.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Beepster
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/12 12:29:49
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Yanno, there are simpler ways to get great original chord progressions happening. Obviously you are familiar with the major and minor scales. If you are also familiar with the modes perfect (if not they are not hard to learn). Add to that melodic and harmonic minor and all their modes and you have a solid foundation to play with. All you have to do from there is combine the notes. Don't break your brain figuring out the what step or quality or inversion or cadences. Just take all the notes of your root mode and mash them together in various ways. Some chords will sound weird, some will sound great but all will be "correct". Then once you have some interesting chords happening that you think sound good together arrange them to create your harmony. It's more fun, more original and more artistic. Then once it's all said and done you can pick them apart pigeonhole them into traditional theory. Also no need to stop at those scales. You can try old oriental scales, middle eastern scales, pentatonics, blues, bebop, symmetrical, whatever. There is also nothing wrong with switching the root patterns up (ie: start in a natural diatonic then switch to harmonic minor modes or change keys, whatever). I do understand theory quite well (and am actually writing a book on the subject) but most of my best tunes were just me trying out different stuff and leaving the in depth analyses at the door. I find when I'm TRYING to fit stuff into theoretical boxes I end up with work that is pleasant but contrived... and that doesn't appeal to me. I want quirky and original and on occasion downright mind bending and raunchy. BREAK THE RULES!!!
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