Janet
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Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
I feel like I'm stuck in I - IV - V with a m6 here and there for good measure. Unless I start out in a minor key, but that's still pretty predictable too. I've considered analyzing classical pieces, etc., for their chord structure. Any other ideas? I love it when music is out of the box, but I don't know how to get out of it.
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Chappel
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/10 22:53:51
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Do you use chord substitutions a lot? Those are great for quick and easy changes to chord patterns and reharmonization. I wouldn't look to classical music for chord changes unless you want to really get in depth. I would rather suggest looking at folk music. Even the Beatles got many of their chord changes early in their career from old folk songs.
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/10 22:58:09
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You know, that's a great idea. I have a book of old hymns that someone rearranged with cool chord substitutions. I've been meaning to study that. Thanks!
I usually only use chord subs by accident. :(
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/10 23:27:01
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Are you aware of the Circle of Fifths chart? That can be useful in showing some chordal options which should work in a particular key. Maybe think about starting a chord progression not on the I note to throw things off a bit. Then maybe resolve to I or something like that. Or not even resolve till a chorus! Or never resolve! Experimentation!
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michaelhanson
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 00:01:41
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It's not so hard when you don't know the rules.  I jest, but there is some truth to that. I honestly don't even think about what progression I am in half the time. I am writing one tonight that is G am F G.... I guess that would be I ii VII VIII (?) I am not actually sure. It sounds good for this song though. I think as Matt has said, experimentation. Or, what works for me sometimes is to hit the wrong chord and someone says... hey, that sounds kind of neat.
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Chappel
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 00:20:14
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mattplaysguitar
Are you aware of the Circle of Fifths chart? That can be useful in showing some chordal options which should work in a particular key. Maybe think about starting a chord progression not on the I note to throw things off a bit. Then maybe resolve to I or something like that. Or not even resolve till a chorus! Or never resolve! Experimentation!
How does that work? I've never seen the circle of fifths, or fourths, used to show anything about chords.
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 00:40:00
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Chappel
mattplaysguitar
Are you aware of the Circle of Fifths chart? That can be useful in showing some chordal options which should work in a particular key. Maybe think about starting a chord progression not on the I note to throw things off a bit. Then maybe resolve to I or something like that. Or not even resolve till a chorus! Or never resolve! Experimentation!
How does that work? I've never seen the circle of fifths, or fourths, used to show anything about chords.
Yeah most don't really show it. I think Chord Wheel tends to be more what it is, rather than plain circle of fifths (my music theory is VERY limited by the way). This is what I was looking for. http://az58332.vo.msecnd.net/e88dd2e9fff747f090c792316c22131c/Images/Products39884-1200x1200-459315.jpg You can use most circle of fifths wheels to extract this info. It's really only showing you the I ii iii IV V vi vii stuff but makes it quick and easy to transpose etc and know what is major and minor. It works for me at least, being highly theory limited! :) I know this is pretty basic stuff so it may not be that useful to you more knowledgeable folks, but might provide a new way of looking at things?!
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The Band19 
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:09:37
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Auhumm.... The best music ever written was written in I IV V? You can get in to other stuff? Typically jazz does this. And there are other simple variations w/minors? Classical music will move through a bunch of changes, and Jazz. But my music typically has 3 or 4 chords, and "it's good..." If it works, if it ain't broke? Don't fix it... What are your favorite songs? How many chords do they have? I'm getting ready to start a new one, a classic rock cover? Yeaup, you guessed it? I IV V... Or some variation there of. I wrote and recorded a song? It's called "It is what it is..." It's a good song, and truer words were never spoken..."
post edited by The Band19 - 2012/09/11 01:18:04
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samhayman
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:23:28
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Hey Janet, I know how it feels getting "stuck in a rut". Try this... Basic chord substitutions - for simplicity's sake I'll give examples in C. There's a simple formula which goes like this: 1, 3, 6 2, 4 5, 7 Those are scale degrees. So if you have a C major chord, you can substitute it with an Em or Am and vice-versa. In essence, C, Em and Am are interchangeable. This depends on your melody of course and you would need to play it by ear, as it were. Same for 2, 4 - Dm and F; and 5, 7 - G and Bdim (or half-diminished). _______________________________ ****ing things up... EDIT - that's interesting, after I posted, this word got censored. It was only the word "S-p-icing" :) Precede your chords with their Dominant 7ths. The full formula is: 4, 7, 3, 6, 2, 5, 1. It's a sort of Cycle of Fifths. Here's how it works. For starters these are not scale degrees based on the Home key (C) but based on the chord you want to go to. That chord becomes the '1'. The simplest example would be if from C you want to move to F. So you play, C to C7 and then go to F. (C is dominant of F = 5, 1) Or from C to E - you would play C, Bdim and then E (think Yesterday, Beatles). (B is dom to E = 5, 1) C to Am - C, E7 then Am. (E is dom to A = 5, 1) To go further (backward in the formula) then you could play: Keeping same eg of C to F: - Gm, C7, F = G is 2nd degree of F, C is 5th, F is 1 = 2, 5, 1. Even further back i.e. 6, 2, 5, 1 (same eg) Dm, Gm, C7, F = D is 6th degree, G is 2nd, C is 5th, F is 1 = 6, 2, 5, 1. Get the idea? :) There there are the infamous Tritone substitutions - the jazzy stuff. If you want to go from C to F you play: - C, F#7 (or F#13th if you want to be more colorful) and then F. This works best with what are called Functioning Dominants. Func Dom are 5-1s as explained above. I.e. C7 to F or E7 to A, or Ab7 to Db, etc... Non-Functioning Dom. are all those dominant 7th chords that DO NOT resolve to their 1. For e.g. E7 to F (like the chorus in Imagine). Or B7 to G... etc... So Non Func Dom are those "5s" that do not go to 1. So back to Tritone Subs... They are called Tritone because they are 3 whole-steps away. So Tritone (TT) of C would be F# because: C, D, E, F# - there is a whole step in between each note. Also notice that you only need to memorise 6 TTs because if C is TT to F#, then F# is TT to C. So another example if you're playing in C: You're on the G chord and about to go to the home key (C) - so from G, you go to Db7 and then C. G is TT to Db - G, A, B, Db. An easy way to remember TT is to think of them as #4 or b5: TT of C = 4th of C which is F + 1 (#4) = F#. or TT of C = 5th of C which is G - 1 (b5) = Gb or F# (same thing) TT of G = 4th of G which C + 1 (#4) = C# (Db) or TT of G = 5th of G which is D - 1 (b5) = Db (C#) _____________________________ I know this might be a lot to digest but I can assure you it will open a new world of possibilities for you :) If you need any clarifications just ask. I'd be happy to help :) Sam
post edited by samhayman - 2012/09/11 01:24:54
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:27:43
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Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:33:42
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Oh, dear! Where shall we begin? Scale degrees! Well, you said you felt stuck on the I-IV-V. How many chords are left? Four. What are they? ii, iii, vi, and viio. These are 3 minor and a diminshed. I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viio = Harmonized Major Scale (Triads) I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-vii% (half-diminished) = Harmonized Major Scale (Sevenths) As someone mentioned with substitutions, here's the most common ways to get them: Tonic-Parallel Relationship (Key Signatures) For every I, you can swap a vi (C/a) For every IV, you can swap a ii (F/d) For every V, you can swap a iii (G/e) Inversions (triads, but predominately sevenths; Tonic-Parallel kinda goes here, too) Every m7 can be inverted into a M6 (Am7/C6, Dm7/F6, Em7/G6) Every half-diminshed seventh (m7b5) upon inversion will become a minor six (m6) Am7b5/Cm6, Dm7b5/Fm6, Em7b5/Gm6 Common Tones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp0iBMZ6bG4&feature=g-user-c (What other chord will the melody note fit in?) Circle of Fourths: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITft3mjiCQY&feature=channel&list=UL (ii7s for V7s) Secondary Dominants (V7/ii, V7/iii, V7/V, etc.) Take this progression: C-Am-Dm-G7-C Using a secondary dominant: C- A7-Dm-G7-C; C- A7-D7-G7-C - Two SDs) Tritone Substitutions: CMaj7- Eb7-AbMaj9-G7b9-CMaj9 - Two of them. CMaj7- Eb7-AbMaj9- Db9-CMaj9 (Three of them) Alterations: CMaj9- A7b9-Dm7- G13b9-C Diminshed seventh sub: CMaj9- C#dim7-Dm7-G7-C (Note: the 7b9 and diminished seventh subs are identical in sonority. A7b9 is A-C#-E-G-Bb. A C# fully diminished seventh has four identical notes.) Chord over Chord - G13b9 = E/G7. Actually, this isn't meant to be a sub, but to help the performer identify what to play if s/he hasn't gotten into extended and altered chords. The E/G7 means to play the two-note seventh (G7) in your left hand and the E triad in your right hand. If you were you play every note from G-E: G-B-D-F-Ab-(B)-E, here you have the, root, third (duplicate), fifth, seventh, flatted ninth, and thirteenth. (9 = 2, 11 = 4, 13 = 6) If the I chord is a 7, 9, 11 (9sus) or 13, look to see what other chords are in there and choose the appropriate scale degree: CMaj7 = C-E-G + E-G-B; iii/IMaj7 CMaj9 = C-E-G + E-G-B + G-B-D = iii7 or V/IMaj9 Cm7 = C-Eb-G + Eb-G-Bb = III/i7 Cm9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D = IIIMaj7 or v/i C9sus = C-F-G-Bb-D = v7/i or bVII6/I C13 = C-Bb-D-F-A = v9/I, bVIIMaj7/I, ii/I The key to using substitutions is understanding how the chords function. I/iii/vi = Tonic Functionality ii/IV = Subdominant Functionality V/vii = Dominant Functionality In C: C-Am-Dm-G7 - I-vi-ii-V In C: C-Dm-F-G - I-ii-IV-V (My Girl) In C: C-Am-F-G - I-vi-IV-V (Heart and Soul) Girl From Ipanema I: Cmaj9-D9-Dm9-G7(add13)-CMaj9 - I-V9/V-ii-V-I Girl From Ipanema II: Cmaj9-Ab7-FMaj7-G7#5#9-CMaj9 - I-bVI-IV-V-I Girl From Ipanema III: Em7-Am7-G7b9-C6-Am9-Am-D9b5-D7-Dm9-Dm7-Db13-Db9-Bb9#11-A7#5b9-G9sus-G13b9 (iii-vi-V-I-vi ... V9/V-V7/V-ii subV/V ... bVII9-V7/ii-V ...) Girl From Ipanema III used tonic-parallel, secondary dominant, tritones, inversions, and extensions + alterations to come up with its chord sequence which formed to prolongation. (Four chords became 16 excluding the I chords at the beginning and end) Here's a video explaining what is called Functional Harmony - this is where substitutions (re-harmonization) come from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBNIxsyE9a8
post edited by Rus W - 2012/09/27 09:02:39
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:36:13
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mattplaysguitar
Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:40:56
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Rus W
mattplaysguitar
Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)
I recall some of your music theory posts a while ago. Let's just say that I'm scared right now ;)
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samhayman
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 01:41:20
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Rus W
mattplaysguitar
Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)
HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :)
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 02:14:08
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samhayman
Rus W
mattplaysguitar
Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)
HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :) Well, if we were to compare notes, you did keep things simple. I seem to have intimidated Matt; you just confused him! (And do check some of my posts and tell me you don't react the same way. I have likewise posts on other forums as well)
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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samhayman
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 02:32:48
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Rus W
samhayman
Rus W
mattplaysguitar
Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)
HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :)
Well, if we were to compare notes, you did keep things simple. I seem to have intimidated Matt; you just confused him! (And do check some of my posts and tell me you don't react the same way. I have likewise posts on other forums as well)
Erm... since you're coming from your high horse... No I wouldn't be intimidated because at a glance I could perfectly understand what you were saying. I'm 34 years old. Been a concert pianist for the past 12 years - classical and jazz - so I think I know my theory. In trying to keep things simple, I would assume that mine was a good starting point. In essence you said the same things I said but in more detail = more space to confuse people. Besides, you accused me of confusing Matt. Yet you're proud that you INTIMIDATE him?! Wow really makes sense. And hey, I was being cheerful about the whole matter. You didn't need to come down on me like a brick. Peace, Sam
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 02:56:02
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Just to be clear, I haven't slowly gone through each of those posts yet to try and absorb it all properly. I've only quickly skimmed (have not actually read yours at all Rus, I didn't realise you had made the post yet!! I only just saw it now!). I just saw lots of letters everywhere and freaked out! I am at work right now so can't study them properly yet ;) No need to fight, I was simply making jokingly scared remarks!
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samhayman
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 03:01:36
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mattplaysguitar
Just to be clear, I haven't slowly gone through each of those posts yet to try and absorb it all properly. I've only quickly skimmed (have not actually read yours at all Rus, I didn't realise you had made the post yet!! I only just saw it now!). I just saw lots of letters everywhere and freaked out! I am at work right now so can't study them properly yet ;) No need to fight, I was simply making jokingly scared remarks!
I totally agree, Matt. Sometimes I really have no idea where all this attitude comes from on this forum. I just joined very recently and I'm already starting to get fed up. I'm talking in general here, not just this particular occasion. Anyway... back to the scope of this forum, if you need any help getting your head around some of the points, ask away :) We're all here to help each other and share what we know, not confuse or intimidate people with our knowledge.
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 03:57:14
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samhayman
Rus W
samhayman
Rus W
mattplaysguitar
Hmm, that's gonna take a few re-reads to get my head around :|
Oh, really? Don't read my reply then! :)
HAHA! :D yes I was just thinking like "and here's me trying to keep things simple" :)
Well, if we were to compare notes, you did keep things simple. I seem to have intimidated Matt; you just confused him! (And do check some of my posts and tell me you don't react the same way. I have likewise posts on other forums as well)
Erm... since you're coming from your high horse... No I wouldn't be intimidated because at a glance I could perfectly understand what you were saying.
I'm 34 years old. Been a concert pianist for the past 12 years - classical and jazz - so I think I know my theory.
In trying to keep things simple, I would assume that mine was a good starting point. In essence you said the same things I said but in more detail = more space to confuse people.
Besides, you accused me of confusing Matt. Yet you're proud that you INTIMIDATE him?! Wow really makes sense.
And hey, I was being cheerful about the whole matter. You didn't need to come down on me like a brick.
Peace,
Sam
You missed the humor in that! I wasn't belittling you at all. When I made the earlier comment, apparently Matt flashed back - if not he wouldn't have said what he did. I knew he meant it in jest as I meant my comment in jest. I've written many a post such as that and have gotten the same reactions from people as Matt. I'm proud to know what I know - not because I know what I know. Huge difference. Now, if anyone's on a high-horse, just re-read your first sentence. Again, the "compare notes" and "different reactions" was nothing more than a harmless jab. If it did seem like I came down on you, I'm sorry for I didn't mean to. In the end, makes no difference if it's a paragraph or a dissertation as long as it gets to whomever wants it. Did I elaborate too much? Perhaps I did, but either reply can be taken piece by piece.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 04:07:55
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mattplaysguitar
Just to be clear, I haven't slowly gone through each of those posts yet to try and absorb it all properly. I've only quickly skimmed (have not actually read yours at all Rus, I didn't realise you had made the post yet!! I only just saw it now!). I just saw lots of letters everywhere and freaked out! I am at work right now so can't study them properly yet ;) No need to fight, I was simply making jokingly scared remarks!
I knew this!! I'm a member on another forum where the theory discussion is way more detailed then I could ever dream and I've got lots of dissertations there as well. Go there if you dare! http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19277 http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19272 http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19269 As far as the attitude thing which I know you didn't ask about - I think it has to do with the aim of this forum. It's more on the production side whether than the composition side of things Chalk all of this up to a misunderstanding on both parties
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 04:34:26
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I'd approach it in a completely different way.
Forget about chord charts/wheels/theory
In fact, forget about chords completely
Start by writing 3 or 4 different melodies which all fit together harmonically - you can easily go back and work out what the "chords" are afterwards.
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samhayman
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 04:36:58
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Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :) Apologies from my part as well. One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said. It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you! Sam EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)
post edited by samhayman - 2012/09/11 04:40:39
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 05:27:19
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samhayman
Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)
Apologies from my part as well.
One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.
It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!
Sam
EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)
My apologies! I thought you would have gotten that. I lapsed about you being new here. Many can attest to my intimidating posts! :)
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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samhayman
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 05:41:19
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Rus W
samhayman
Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)
Apologies from my part as well.
One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.
It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!
Sam
EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)
My apologies! I thought you would have gotten that. I lapsed about you being new here. Many can attest to my intimidating posts! :)
Yes, and I can see why! When I started studying advanced harmony which as you know is just one facet - albeit, arguably the vastest field in music theory (Rhythm - using it as an umbrella term - competes quite closely in my opinion), I was overwhelmed to say the least. And I do remember how it felt. You study rules for years on end only to come to a point where you study more rules to break the rules and THEN come to a point where you play things simply because they sound good. Pretty much what Duke Ellington said in one of his most famous quotes, "If it sounds good, it's good". There certainly would be god-knows what explanation behind the 'why' some "odd" progression works, or why it makes perfect sense to one's ear when listening to Keith Jarrett ending a phrase on Ab (and holding it, not just using it as a passing note) in Autumn Leaves played on a Gm chord. It's all fascinating stuff. And yes, at times quite intimidating. But yes in the end it's people like you who make this forum a very interesting one :) Janet, it seems like we hijacked your thread. Sorry :)
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 05:47:17
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Bristol_Jonesey
I'd approach it in a completely different way.
Forget about chord charts/wheels/theory
In fact, forget about chords completely
Start by writing 3 or 4 different melodies which all fit together harmonically - you can easily go back and work out what the "chords" are afterwards.
Yep - especially when you get into voice-leading and I have said that harmony is only multiple melodies; yet, this also teaches one how to get harmony to flow melodically. It's a double-edged sword in a good sense.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 06:04:52
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samhayman
Rus W
samhayman
Well, you could have put a smiley in there if you meant it in a cheeky way. heh :)
Apologies from my part as well.
One obviously cannot "hear" the other party's voice, so I misread (or misheard if you will), the tone behind what you said.
It's great that you came back and clarified. Thank you!
Sam
EDIT: P.S. I certainly don't mean to tell you how to post or what to say - just saying that a smiley would reveal some body language, as it were. ...Just to clarify :)
My apologies! I thought you would have gotten that. I lapsed about you being new here. Many can attest to my intimidating posts! :)
Yes, and I can see why! When I started studying advanced harmony which as you know is just one facet - albeit, arguably the vastest field in music theory (Rhythm - using it as an umbrella term - competes quite closely in my opinion), I was overwhelmed to say the least. And I do remember how it felt. You study rules for years on end only to come to a point where you study more rules to break the rules and THEN come to a point where you play things simply because they sound good. Pretty much what Duke Ellington said in one of his most famous quotes, "If it sounds good, it's good".
There certainly would be god-knows what explanation behind the 'why' some "odd" progression works, or why it makes perfect sense to one's ear when listening to Keith Jarrett ending a phrase on Ab (and holding it, not just using it as a passing note) in Autumn Leaves played on a Gm chord.
It's all fascinating stuff. And yes, at times quite intimidating.
But yes in the end it's people like you who make this forum a very interesting one :)
Janet, it seems like we hijacked your thread. Sorry :)
Same goes with production, too! I think it was a certified Ableton Live user (I forget his name) who said the same thing. However, of course as most know whether in composition or production - the guidelines are a good place to start - that is why we learn them first. The I-IV-V, the first progression taught (and a very adhesive progression at that - just ask Janet - lol.) Yet, a very popular one since it's all you need, really. Of course, there's Achy-Breaky Heart - the two chord gem by Billy Ray Cyrus! Anywho, Janet if you do have any more questions, we are here to help. Remember though, not everything can be obtained by just reading - listening takes a bigger precedence when it comes to music!
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 06:11:37
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Mmm, looking over some of those threads you put up Rus, I saw one really great, simple thing that I, as a beginner think is perfect. For major keys: There are three basic chord "functions", and all 7 chords in a MAJOR key fall into one of those: TONIC: I, vi, iii DOMINANT: V, vii SUBDOMINANT: IV, ii The dominant pair can substitute for each other (do the same job, leading to I), as can the subdominant pair (leading to V)
For minor keys:
[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: normal; background-color: rgb(237, 239, 242); "]In MINOR keys the situation is a little different, partly because of the variable scale. TONIC = i DOMINANT = V, vii SUBDOMINANT = iv, ii, VI
Use this in conjunction with something like this fella to quickly and easily play it out on guitar (unless you are good with your I ii iii IV etc stuff)
http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1180676064l/1064839.jpg It's so basic, it's perfect. Simply understand Tonic, Dominant and Subdominant and how they all work together, and progressions should easily happen!! I guess the only issue is they all might kind of 'work' really well and almost sound TOO good, but if you want to do something different, you got to break the rules anyway. So I really like this. Basic music theory 101 but something probably easy to miss for those who see it as so obvious cause they have known it all along. P.S. I hadn't actually read those posts of yours yet but just went up and skimmed it again, and it's exactly what I just said but in more detail haha! I need to stop typing before I read ;) Ok, no more from me till I read these great looking posts! :)
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Rus W
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 06:54:38
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@ Matt:
Theory takes as much practice as performance and nothing wrong with the same thing being said a gazillion ways. It's what resonates with you, so you get it.
I could've helped by "outlining" my subjects in the posts, but I didn't. And no-no. By all means, ask questions. You never get answers unless you do. That goes for everybody.
iBM (Color of Music) MCS (Digital Orchestration) "The Amateur works until he (or she) gets it right. The professional works until he (or she) can't get it wrong." - Julie Andrews
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Janet
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 07:12:43
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Thanks, you guys! It's way early in the morning so I just skimmed your posts, and like you said, it will take some time to digest. Fortunately, I've studied chords and know what most of them are. I just need to take some time to get more creative in their combinations. I'll delve into your posts (Sam & Rus) when I've got some time to 'play.' And Sam, you should know better than to use the word 'spicing' around here! For shame!  And Robby, you have a great point....many, many great songs just use mostly I, IV, & V. I think if I got outside of those chords, I could write better melodies. At least I hope so. You, though, carry on...you already make great music! :)
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Chord Progressions - how do you learn new ones?
2012/09/11 08:29:08
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Well... not to throw more confusing stuff into the discussion..... but....
Use what I refer to as the colorful chords, the jazz chords.... learn a few minor 6th, 9th, 11th, & 13th, chords, and their major compadres....
then grab a few diminished and augmented chords and add them to the mix and....
then..... really bust loose by getting some of the cool chords..
the 7b5 .... the 9sus4 ... 13b5b9 ....#5b9 and so many other colorful chord variations.
So in a basic 1,4,5 standard rock/blues progression, substitute a few of the "new" chords and see what happens.
I learned a number of these "jazz chords" from a jazz guitar method book and I will throw them in where they sound good to s.p.i.c.e things up.
More than one time, I have been composing a tune and quite by accident I will hit the totally wrong chord and it sounds good.... so ...... happy mistakes will happen too. Embrace them.
While I did study music theory for a few years, and it was interesting, I do not "think" that way when I write.
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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