ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:31:29
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LJB
JonD
I agree with a lot of fribble's comments. Hopefully, these things get "refined" in a future update.
That said, -- For the others here who are complaining and don't have the program yet... Can you at least wait until you have it installed and see what is customizable before saying this or that is unusable?
Just sayin'... 
Jon, here's the thing: I make a living out of using Sonar, as many others on this forum do as well. The last thing I can afford is to upgrade and then be stuck with something that makes me lose time/productivity and therefore income. I can also not afford to have downtime in the studio either with unnecessary software issues, crashes or features that are suddenly not available to me. I have already bought X1PE, but I'm starting to wonder if I should just not wait until the forum indicates that I'll be able to use this piece of gear. Meanwhile, after probably thousands of discussions on this forum, some needed features are still not available.. or now removed. It's just strange to me since I have personally been surveyed several times by CW.
Being what might be called a Sonar power user myself, I can easily say that if I had to have clients in like a studio does, there's no way I'd be using X1 yet. Just a few hours of playing with it has already confirmed what I've been saying for awhile now - and that is to lower our expectations. I'm lowering mine even more now. Yes there are some good new thingies, and yes I'm sure I'll like more of it as time goes on -- but this is not an "out of the box" homerun yet.
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John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:34:05
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Well, come on. Using a new piece of software that you've only spent a couple of hours with for client work would be plain nuts, no matter what.
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...wicked
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:35:50
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John T
Well, come on. Using a new piece of software that you've only spent a couple of hours with for client work would be plain nuts, no matter what.
Fer realz. I would go a step further and saying any x.0 should be sandboxed until a first update comes out. Use that time to configure the workspace and learn your way around. With this update there's certainly enough to fill your time.
=========== The Fog People =========== Intel i7-4790 16GB RAM ASUS Z97 Roland OctaCapture Win10/64 SONAR Platinum 64-bit billions VSTs, some of which work
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LJB
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:37:26
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Agreed of course! - but if it's unstable or frustrating, no amount of hours spent will change that.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
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SongCraft
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:38:56
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Yeah to expand on my previous post:
The very nature of trying to place a 'real-life-like' mixer in software environment never entirely agreed with me.
I guess the mixer has got to be the most challenging part of UI design for the DAW, for example; it's very difficult to pack all 60 channels (on one screenshot), faders, pan, gain, parameters, readouts, plugins, sends, sends, graphs, meters, dials, dials, sliders, text/fonts, titles and the kitchen sink all whilst not making it look cluttered.
Suggestion:
What if Cakewalk has a competition or simply a suggestion thread (sticky) where we all can submit/contribute ideas (including images - examples) for the ideal mixer UI design, most importantly to gather 'Innovative' ideas, I mean really clever ideas that will greatly improve the workflow along with greater view/access of all essentials.
-
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n0rd
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:52:08
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SongCraft
Suggestion:
What if Cakewalk has a competition or simply a suggestion thread (sticky) where we all can submit/contribute ideas (including images - examples) for the ideal mixer UI design, most importantly to gather 'Innovative' ideas, I mean really clever ideas that will greatly improve the workflow along with greater view/access of all essentials.
+1. Now if only I had (and knew how to use) Photoshop. MS Paint time! lol
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JonD
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:56:31
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ba_midi
LJB
JonD
I agree with a lot of fribble's comments. Hopefully, these things get "refined" in a future update.
That said, -- For the others here who are complaining and don't have the program yet... Can you at least wait until you have it installed and see what is customizable before saying this or that is unusable?
Just sayin'...
Jon, here's the thing: I make a living out of using Sonar, as many others on this forum do as well. The last thing I can afford is to upgrade and then be stuck with something that makes me lose time/productivity and therefore income. I can also not afford to have downtime in the studio either with unnecessary software issues, crashes or features that are suddenly not available to me. I have already bought X1PE, but I'm starting to wonder if I should just not wait until the forum indicates that I'll be able to use this piece of gear. Meanwhile, after probably thousands of discussions on this forum, some needed features are still not available.. or now removed. It's just strange to me since I have personally been surveyed several times by CW.
Being what might be called a Sonar power user myself, I can easily say that if I had to have clients in like a studio does, there's no way I'd be using X1 yet.
Just a few hours of playing with it has already confirmed what I've been saying for awhile now - and that is to lower our expectations.
I'm lowering mine even more now. Yes there are some good new thingies, and yes I'm sure I'll like more of it as time goes on -- but this is not an "out of the box" homerun yet.
Billy, you actually have the program, so my comments weren't directed at you. Brandon's reply a few posts back made my point for me, I think.
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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Rain
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:58:01
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SongCraft
Yeah to expand on my previous post:
The very nature of trying to place a 'real-life-like' mixer in software environment never entirely agreed with me.
I guess the mixer has got to be the most challenging part of UI design for the DAW, for example; it's very difficult to pack all 60 channels (on one screenshot), faders, pan, gain, parameters, readouts, plugins, sends, sends, graphs, meters, dials, dials, sliders, text/fonts, titles and the kitchen sink all whilst not making it look cluttered.
Suggestion:
What if Cakewalk has a competition or simply a suggestion thread (sticky) where we all can submit/contribute ideas (including images - examples) for the ideal mixer UI design, most importantly to gather 'Innovative' ideas, I mean really clever ideas that will greatly improve the workflow along with greater view/access of all essentials.
-
I guess they're trying to stay on par with the competition, as the vast majority seems to be adopting the hardware look more and more. Even Pro Tools moved from pan sliders to knobs - though I think they retained the elegance and the simplicity of their mixer. But if you look at the others, a lot of them are plagued by the same type of approach. Worst example would be SawStudio w/ its endless channel strips (though it has its loyal defendants). I don't know - virtual knobs never made to much sense to me in most cases. And developers rarely seem to truly strive for innovation, more to level the playing fields. There's some fierce competition out there, and redesign a mixer in a way that moves too far away from conventions might be considered risky I guess.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:58:16
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Billy, you actually have the program, so my comments weren't directed at you. Brandon's reply a few posts back made my point for me, I think. I understood, Jon. I'm just adding my x1cents to the discussion ;)
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SongCraft
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 16:58:41
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n0rd
SongCraft
Suggestion:
What if Cakewalk has a competition or simply a suggestion thread (sticky) where we all can submit/contribute ideas (including images - examples) for the ideal mixer UI design, most importantly to gather 'Innovative' ideas, I mean really clever ideas that will greatly improve the workflow along with greater view/access of all essentials.
+1. Now if only I had (and knew how to use) Photoshop. MS Paint time! lol
Just a rough sketch (Pen+paper) then scan will do, it don't have to be perfect :) , tis not a beauty pageant LOL!! Or at the least just explain it and maybe someone else might come along who like its and helps bring your ideas to visual example. :) -
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:03:44
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ba_midi
On the upside, it doesn't look like the kind of thing that would be hard to improve. Just some narrower fonts and smaller indicators would win back a lot of space, without even radically changing anything.
John,
If there's one thing I've noticed in the almost 8 years I've been using Sonar -- it's that some of these things get "written in stone", as the old saying goes.
Just playing with the new so-called "smart tools" it's become apparent to me they are not as "smart" as marketing would have us believe.
There are still a TON of old style / Old Sonar things in X1 that haven't EVER changed or been updated.
There are also a bunch of things that are stopping me from working smoothly - but of course some of that is just getting used to the entirely new GUI, entirely new set of keybindings, etc.
So really this is like buying a new program with a lot of old stuff. BUT unlike a completely new program, it's a mix between old and new - so the learning curve is weird not just steep.
Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:10:30
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I can't wrap my head around this "written in stone" idea, personally. I've been a Cakewalk user since before even Cakewalk Pro Audio, and from my perspective, it's evolved at a fairly headlong pace continually over those fifteen or so years. Sure, you could cherry pick some aspects that have remained static for a few versions easily enough, but that's hardly the general paradigm of the thing.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:13:27
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Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool. som I didn't say I was having problems. I just said it's not as smart as marketing would have us believe. I know it also takes time to 'get to know' X1, but just for the heck of it I clicked on a track with automation and tried to grab and move/adjust it. No go. I had to figure out how to get into some mode that would allow me to grab the automation. Hitting "E" no longer works, as you know ;) So I went to the edit filters, but found it had a TON of choices, as opposed to a quick way. Eventually I found my way and adjusted the envelopes. It just wasn't that smart to start off with. Of course, neither am I LOL
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PenguiN42
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:14:08
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John T
Hmm. This narrow implementation looks like a real afterthought to me. I like the new wide view, but this seems to have been not given enough attention. Having the track name on the same line as the number rather than having its own line is an odd decision, as is the size of the power button on plug ins.
Just looks kind of unfinished. I don't personally use the narrow view a lot, so not a big deal for me, but I can see why it would annoy others.
On the upside, it doesn't look like the kind of thing that would be hard to improve. Just some narrower fonts and smaller indicators would win back a lot of space, without even radically changing anything.
This pretty much mirrors my view.... it looks like the console was designed for wide view with the assumption that some automatic scaling-down was all that was needed for narrow, and it was never really vetted as viable. Or perhaps there was a viable narrow view at some point in development but then they went ahead and decided to increase the size of fonts/icons/knobs and never went back to narrow to make sure it didn't break anything. The fact that a supposedly GUI-centric release has such a huge oversight in the GUI makes me wonder about the overall quality of the development process. I also worry that, like many other past flaws in new cakewalk versions, this flaw will get "burned in" and never really get corrected. I hope I'm wrong, but so far I'm probably going to wait for the first major patch before considering buying X1.
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:18:20
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John T
I can't wrap my head around this "written in stone" idea, personally. I've been a Cakewalk user since before even Cakewalk Pro Audio, and from my perspective, it's evolved at a fairly headlong pace continually over those fifteen or so years. Sure, you could cherry pick some aspects that have remained static for a few versions easily enough, but that's hardly the general paradigm of the thing.
Well I could make quite a list of things that have been in bug mode for ages; I think we all could. But here's an example, albeit an annoyance more than a bug: When you're doing a VST Scan... it's the same old dialogue box that has been there ever since they introduced VST scanning internally. And, it's old style -- meaning, it never shows you the COMPLETE name of the file it's scanning IF that file name is longer than a certain number of characters. With modern day monitors and screen resolutions it's easy to either put the entire name of the file (full path) OR wrap it to a 2nd line if necessary. Why does this matter? Well one reason, for example, is if there is an errant plugin. It's lot easier to figure out what that is IF YOU COULD SEE THE NAME lol. Also - the Cancel button for the scan doesn't show for awhile. So if you needed to cancel - you simply cannot until that button shows. That's just two examples. There are many more written in stone. Are they show stoppers? Most not. But annoyances can be just as, well, annoying ;)
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:19:47
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ba_midi
Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool.
som
I didn't say I was having problems. I just said it's not as smart as marketing would have us believe.
I know it also takes time to 'get to know' X1, but just for the heck of it I clicked on a track with automation and tried to grab and move/adjust it. No go.
I had to figure out how to get into some mode that would allow me to grab the automation. Hitting "E" no longer works, as you know ;)
So I went to the edit filters, but found it had a TON of choices, as opposed to a quick way. Eventually I found my way and adjusted the envelopes.
It just wasn't that smart to start off with. Of course, neither am I LOL
Shift+click on the automation and you can do whatever you want to it.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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mudgel
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:22:24
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Beginning to understand why the promos were so limited and a real feature set never made it out of marketing.
I've wasted a $150 bucks before and I guess this is going to be one occassion where i won't bother opening the box. The GUI for thwe console is a deal breaker for me A real pity.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:25:21
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
ba_midi
Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool.
som
I didn't say I was having problems. I just said it's not as smart as marketing would have us believe.
I know it also takes time to 'get to know' X1, but just for the heck of it I clicked on a track with automation and tried to grab and move/adjust it. No go.
I had to figure out how to get into some mode that would allow me to grab the automation. Hitting "E" no longer works, as you know ;)
So I went to the edit filters, but found it had a TON of choices, as opposed to a quick way. Eventually I found my way and adjusted the envelopes.
It just wasn't that smart to start off with. Of course, neither am I LOL
Shift+click on the automation and you can do whatever you want to it.
Yes I found that ... and using ALT clicking as well. I think I was just expecting it to "know" I was selecting automation (which I clearly was) and be a bit smarter about it. This is not a "problem" though. As I said, there's going to be a learning curve. But it just wasn't what I _thought_ it was going to do at the time.
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John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:26:25
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ba_midi
John T
I can't wrap my head around this "written in stone" idea, personally. I've been a Cakewalk user since before even Cakewalk Pro Audio, and from my perspective, it's evolved at a fairly headlong pace continually over those fifteen or so years. Sure, you could cherry pick some aspects that have remained static for a few versions easily enough, but that's hardly the general paradigm of the thing.
Well I could make quite a list of things that have been in bug mode for ages; I think we all could.
But here's an example, albeit an annoyance more than a bug:
When you're doing a VST Scan... it's the same old dialogue box that has been there ever since they introduced VST scanning internally. And, it's old style -- meaning, it never shows you the COMPLETE name of the file it's scanning IF that file name is longer than a certain number of characters.
With modern day monitors and screen resolutions it's easy to either put the entire name of the file (full path) OR wrap it to a 2nd line if necessary.
Why does this matter? Well one reason, for example, is if there is an errant plugin. It's lot easier to figure out what that is IF YOU COULD SEE THE NAME lol.
Also - the Cancel button for the scan doesn't show for awhile. So if you needed to cancel - you simply cannot until that button shows.
That's just two examples. There are many more written in stone.
Are they show stoppers? Most not. But annoyances can be just as, well, annoying ;)
"Written in stone" seems like an absurdly uncharitable description of such things. Surely "not high on the list of priorities" is a more reasonable take on it, no?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:27:32
(permalink)
Shift+click on the automation and you can do whatever you want to it. for I should add, Brandon, that I like the ability to shift click or alt click as an "immediate" way to get to the automation, but I'm hoping there is still somie way to solely be in the automation mode, kind of like the old keybinding of "E". There are times working solely with envelopes is valuable. I'm sure the edit filters play a role, but I'm still hoping for a 'mode', so to speak.
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John T
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:27:54
(permalink)
ba_midi
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
ba_midi
Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool.
som
I didn't say I was having problems. I just said it's not as smart as marketing would have us believe.
I know it also takes time to 'get to know' X1, but just for the heck of it I clicked on a track with automation and tried to grab and move/adjust it. No go.
I had to figure out how to get into some mode that would allow me to grab the automation. Hitting "E" no longer works, as you know ;)
So I went to the edit filters, but found it had a TON of choices, as opposed to a quick way. Eventually I found my way and adjusted the envelopes.
It just wasn't that smart to start off with. Of course, neither am I LOL
Shift+click on the automation and you can do whatever you want to it.
Yes I found that ... and using ALT clicking as well.
I think I was just expecting it to "know" I was selecting automation (which I clearly was) and be a bit smarter about it.
This is not a "problem" though. As I said, there's going to be a learning curve. But it just wasn't what I _thought_ it was going to do at the time.
But if it did that, you're back to the old problem of accidentally clicking on other bits of automation rather than the one you intended.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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n0rd
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:32:11
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PenguiN42
The fact that a supposedly GUI-centric release has such a huge oversight in the GUI makes me wonder...
Me too
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:32:22
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But if it did that, you're back to the old problem of accidentally clicking on other bits of automation rather than the one you intended. I suppose that's possible, but it's not really how it happens. Once you have the edit filter (whatever that may be, and by whatever means you get there) in "focus", X1 does seem to keep it in that mode (I just found out). So perhaps this will work out. Too soon to tell fully though.
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Fess
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:32:37
(permalink)
SongCraft
Yeah to expand on my previous post:
The very nature of trying to place a 'real-life-like' mixer in software environment never entirely agreed with me.
I guess the mixer has got to be the most challenging part of UI design for the DAW, for example; it's very difficult to pack all 60 channels (on one screenshot), faders, pan, gain, parameters, readouts, plugins, sends, sends, graphs, meters, dials, dials, sliders, text/fonts, titles and the kitchen sink all whilst not making it look cluttered.
Suggestion:
What if Cakewalk has a competition or simply a suggestion thread (sticky) where we all can submit/contribute ideas (including images - examples) for the ideal mixer UI design, most importantly to gather 'Innovative' ideas, I mean really clever ideas that will greatly improve the workflow along with greater view/access of all essentials.
-
Dope idea. That would prove what I've read-that Cakewalk actually listens to their users. 
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bapu
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:33:02
(permalink)
SongCraft
Suggestion:
What if Cakewalk has a competition or simply a suggestion thread (sticky) where we all can submit/contribute ideas (including images - examples) for the ideal mixer UI design, most importantly to gather 'Innovative' ideas, I mean really clever ideas that will greatly improve the workflow along with greater view/access of all essentials.
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A horse designed by committee becomes an ElephaZebronkyZelleOose.  Can't wait to see it.
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Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:34:31
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John T
ba_midi
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
ba_midi
Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool.
som
I didn't say I was having problems. I just said it's not as smart as marketing would have us believe.
I know it also takes time to 'get to know' X1, but just for the heck of it I clicked on a track with automation and tried to grab and move/adjust it. No go.
I had to figure out how to get into some mode that would allow me to grab the automation. Hitting "E" no longer works, as you know ;)
So I went to the edit filters, but found it had a TON of choices, as opposed to a quick way. Eventually I found my way and adjusted the envelopes.
It just wasn't that smart to start off with. Of course, neither am I LOL
Shift+click on the automation and you can do whatever you want to it.
Yes I found that ... and using ALT clicking as well.
I think I was just expecting it to "know" I was selecting automation (which I clearly was) and be a bit smarter about it.
This is not a "problem" though. As I said, there's going to be a learning curve. But it just wasn't what I _thought_ it was going to do at the time.
But if it did that, you're back to the old problem of accidentally clicking on other bits of automation rather than the one you intended.
I agree. I found SHIFT-clicking to be very intuitive actually.
Intel Q9400 2.66 GHz 8 GB of RAM @ 800 Mhz ATI Radeon HD 3650 Windows 7 Professional (SP1) x64 Cubase 6.03 x64 Sonar PE 8.5.3 x64 RME FireFace 400 Frontier Design Alpha Track Studio Logic VMK-188 Plus http://www.youtube.com/user/SonarHD
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 17:55:44
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I probably shouldn't even comment on this, but I have to admit a few things bother me as well. First off, going to the Cake store gave me a server busy error. Wouldn't they anticipate this before this was offered for a download? Secondly, while I was waiting for the Cake store to become available, I decided to come here and read up on X1 and I'm glad I did. I then decided to go and watch all the videos again to make up my mind one final time...and I'm glad I did. I came back here to read more, forum down due to traffic...will be up again soon. LOL!!
My final thoughts without having purchased this....I'm glad I had the server errors as I believe it was Gods way of telling me "hold off lil dude, this ain't for you."
That console is a deciding factor for me as well. When we made the change to the Sonar 6 console from 5, I was very disappointed. Ok, the 5 console wasn't fantastic to look at visually speaking, but all the stuff I needed fit in one window with 0 scrolling. With 6 and above, I either had to settle for less things visible or scroll a little. I see this new console as an issue for me at this time.
I think a quick fix for the console thing is to have a compressor hide/disable button or something that allows us the old look IF we need it. The reason being, whatever this compressor is, most of us have our own personal favorites that we will use in a track bin. Why have this take up the console view if it's not even in use?
Another thing I felt was a bit odd was this statement I keep seeing mentioning "the object is to make music" which sort of seems like an attempt to make you forget about the lack of color changes. Would any of us buy our favorite car in a color we didn't like? Would you enjoy driving it if the color scheme in the interior was not to your liking as well as the color of the extertior? Seriously, this is important as like a car, you're going to be driving Sonar every day or just about every day.
Some will tell us until we're blue in the face that Pro Tool is the best DAW ever created. I have it here for clients that have started projects in it that need it finished there or I export out and run the projects in Sonar. That said, the DOS type look of PT is one main reason I can't stand it. (yeah the new one is a bit better) Color schemes and per user configuration control is essential in my opinion with any DAW. One of the things I like about Sonar is you could always change things up to fit your needs. I'm sure this is do-able in X1, but it seems the things WE feel are important TO US, aren't there anymore.
I understand that I'm not qualified to give an opinion having not made the purchase. Half of that is due to the servers not allowing me to, the other half...my procrastination doing further research as well as my worries that this version just may not be for me.
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 18:10:54
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
ba_midi
On the upside, it doesn't look like the kind of thing that would be hard to improve. Just some narrower fonts and smaller indicators would win back a lot of space, without even radically changing anything.
John,
If there's one thing I've noticed in the almost 8 years I've been using Sonar -- it's that some of these things get "written in stone", as the old saying goes.
Just playing with the new so-called "smart tools" it's become apparent to me they are not as "smart" as marketing would have us believe.
There are still a TON of old style / Old Sonar things in X1 that haven't EVER changed or been updated.
There are also a bunch of things that are stopping me from working smoothly - but of course some of that is just getting used to the entirely new GUI, entirely new set of keybindings, etc.
So really this is like buying a new program with a lot of old stuff. BUT unlike a completely new program, it's a mix between old and new - so the learning curve is weird not just steep.
Curious what problems you're having with the smart tool.
Ok, let me update things ... I see we can stay in a "mode" ... it just wasn't obvious that's what it was doing. The Shift-clicking to focus on a mode does help. So I think this does improve workflow. I can see this is going to be an uphill learning thing though without the manual available yet :(
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bapu
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 18:15:21
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my worries that this version just may not be for me. Of course, if you plan to stay with Cake for the long haul, some of this version could ultimately be for you since Sonar < X1 will no longer get any patches (a fairly safe assumption on my part).
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ba_midi
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1
2010/12/08 18:16:14
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That console is a deciding factor for me as well. When we made the change to the Sonar 6 console from 5, I was very disappointed. Ok, the 5 console wasn't fantastic to look at visually speaking, but all the stuff I needed fit in one window with 0 scrolling. With 6 and above, I either had to settle for less things visible or scroll a little. I see this new console as an issue for me at this time.
There's a few things that should be mentioned though.... and because they are NEW things, perhaps we're not seeing the potential yet. SCREENSETS.....as one example. As I read this thread and participate in it, I'm also playing around with X1. SCREENSETS can be an amazing tool. For example ... you can have a FULL SCREEN Console View on a 2nd monitor (or even the primary monitor). And set that as one screenset. With one keystroke you can have it as you like without affecting other things (because you can go back to that OTHER screenset). So while I may stumble and struggle with some of the new stuff, or not like some things - there ARE some things that will definitely be game changers too.
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