[Consolidated] Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1

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n0rd
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 12:44:49 (permalink)
cake2010

The layout is now amateurish and even average user here can come up with better ideas.

Huh? Did you just call me average? :p lol
e.Blue
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 12:52:01 (permalink)
Wow!...That really looks great! I think the bakers should look into sending you a plane ticket out to Boston as a consultant.

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 12:53:16 (permalink)
eBlue


Wow!...That really looks great! I think the bakers should look into sending you a plane ticket out to Boston as a consultant.

-e.B
 
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 13:01:58 (permalink)
n0rd


cake2010

The layout is now amateurish and even average user here can come up with better ideas.

Huh? Did you just call me average? :p lol

Hey great work!!
Hmm... it could be that you are actually slightly above the average user.
 
  
yorolpal
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:04:40 (permalink)
Well, shoot.  I've got to agree n0rd ol pal, I think you've just about done it.  That is one fine lookin, ergonomic, intuitive and functional console.  While I certainly feel for the person (or committee) that designed X1's console layout...lord, the hammerin they're takin...I think that Greg and the gang should just take a deep breath, swallow hard and hire you to do some quick freelance repair work.  You get my vote.

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:13:15 (permalink)
Elegant and functional. Well Done.

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:21:27 (permalink)
Very nice concept and proposal.

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cake2010
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:26:20 (permalink)
Great, just what I was thinking too.
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:30:51 (permalink)
These ideas are a vast improvment!  I cannot imagine why it was not designed more along these lines up front, considering interface is the #1 selling point for this version.

However:  What is up with the knobs??  Knobs are made for fingers, not for linear mouse dragging.  They are not intuitive; i.e. do you drag them in a circular motion, or straight up/down?  (I know the answer, just saying...)

In my opinion, the "old sliders" are cleaner to view at a glance, and more accurate to tweak.  Not to mention, space saving...
If you agree, I'd love to see a mock up with the little sliders replacing the knobs.

Cheers all!
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:45:26 (permalink)
Genius
+1000000
If they impliment this I will be one happy bunny and you should get a credit. Thanks nOrd

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:47:03 (permalink)
creynolds


Genius
+1000000
If they impliment this I will be one happy bunny and you should get a credit. Thanks nOrd

I'll take on 100 dollar bets right now -- they won't implement this ;)

Any takers? lol




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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:52:29 (permalink)
As a slight return. I still don't like the fader caps in the new or old console. I think they were called 'Buddys' faders that are soooo much nicer and a stronger colour too. The colours on this version are very pastel. I want to be able to see the groups as distinctly different. Anyone sat in front of this new colour scheme for long yet? It makes my head ache. Too light for me. I end up squinting.

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creynolds
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:53:53 (permalink)
Billy we really have to keep the pressure on. We HAVE to make this happen. Maybe someone at Cake would like to comment? C

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dmmi
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 13:58:44 (permalink)
From What I've seen......looks like they HAVE to adopt something different....maybe not this, but damn!, something to improve this.

(don't mean to gripe at OP(with respect of course), but you do realize that by posting your design, they most definitely won't adopt it)  Think about it.....new release, many expectations, apparently beta tested by the regulars, and by adopting your fix that would admit failure and overlooking the obvious for bakers and testers alike...

Just saying......(sorry to ruin your sure win bet Billy..haha)

Cheers!
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 15:01:36 (permalink)
dmmi


(don't mean to gripe at OP(with respect of course), but you do realize that by posting your design, they most definitely won't adopt it)  Think about it.....new release, many expectations, apparently beta tested by the regulars, and by adopting your fix that would admit failure and overlooking the obvious for bakers and testers alike...



Sad, but probably true. You really have to wonder about the whole process, how do they all say "Yep, we got it, looks good to me!", when it is so obviously flawed.

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HumbleNoise
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 15:30:27 (permalink)
n0rd, I think your post needs to be front and center in this thread with a dedicated link of some kind. It's really good work.

Here it is again for those who might miss the link above

http://forum.cakewalk.com...58&mpage=1#2153458

It's shame that it most likely will not be implemented by the Bakers when it in fact it should probably be adapted in its entirety.

The reason I suggest it will not be implemented is because of my previous experience with other software and user interfaces. I have seen numerous times where we, the users, come up with simply brilliant design ideas but the wheels of software development teams seem to always turn in another direction. Seems so backwards.

Here's a group of 100's of users that can be tapped for so many different purposes but sometimes the end product becomes something that no user would have designed.

I understand the difficulty and so appreciate the efforts that the Bakers have put into this product but here's an opportunity to be truly cutting edge by taking a great idea from a user and running with it.

Perhaps there are a couple of software engineers who can enlighten us on why a great idea like this (or others in your experience) may not or can not be implemented.

I wonder what the narrow console will look like in the future? Hopefully your idea, n0rd, gets some strong consideration.

Humbly Yours

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Jose7822
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 16:28:26 (permalink)
Cakewalk needs to hire you brother.

Great job!

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 16:38:11 (permalink)
n0rd


Is it perfect? - No
I'm just dreaming out aloud - nothing more, nothing less.


Very Nice!!


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Jose7822
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 16:42:29 (permalink)
Nord did an awesome job there.  I wrote in the other thread that Cakewalk needs to hire him.

BTW, GuitarTrek, thanks for the kind words.  I don't consider myself more important than anyone else, but I still appreciate it :-)

Rus W, I also appreciate your intentions, cause I know you mean well.  But the more you get to know SONAR (or any application for that matter) the more you'll learn that even a second is important in your workflow.  You get to a point where repeating the same 3 actions over and over makes you wonder why you couldn't do that in one.  I promise you, you will understand this one day and then you'll know why we have to be vocal about what's wrong with SONAR.


P.S. I don't loath the XBox, I just prefer the PS3.  Both have a terrible community anyway :-)

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thegeek
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 16:51:59 (permalink)
+1 very nice!
RogerH
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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 17:28:16 (permalink)
like a lot!
post edited by RogerH - 2010/12/10 17:31:04

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 17:30:16 (permalink)
Maybe in Sonar X1,5 (please,please,please,?)

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SongCraft
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 17:37:55 (permalink)
rbowser


Jose and Jon - I didn't mean to cause confusion.  I've been staying with the Studio versions of Sonar for some time now.  So I don't have the Pro Channel, and that's what's causing the difference in my narrow strip view.

Randy B.


Correct me if I'm wrong;  You're saying that Sonar X1 Studio (and Essential) version (both don't have the Pro-Channel) will display the Mixer 'EQ and Graph' in both narrow and wide views?

--------- end---------


X1 Essential and Studio - - in 'Narrow View' ~ are the text/numeric values 'terribly' truncated for example; 'Solo Guitar' (track title) shorten to S (one letter) and numeric values jumbled up (not displayed correctly)....

...See Example Image: Click Here to see Large View of Mixer (although this is X1 Producer, not Essential or Studio) I can see clearly see various UI 'graphic flaws' in the Mixer, that's enough to turn me off purchasing X1.  * I hope CW will fix these flaws soon, I think they will because those flaws are quite serious, embarrassing, it makes the UI (Mixer View) look amateurish.  But to be fair, other than those various flaws basically the new Skylight GUI is very nice.  That said; all it needs is more effort in the Graphics/Devs department to fix those various graphic flaws.

-

 
 
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 18:20:35 (permalink)
i only use the narrow strip ... the is a total F!@# up change

are they assuming we all want to go buy yet another screen for they their clunky interface

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guitartrek
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 18:49:53 (permalink)
Jose7822

BTW, GuitarTrek, thanks for the kind words.  I don't consider myself more important than anyone else, but I still appreciate it :-) 


Oh - I forgot to mention - he's humble too!

rbowser
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 18:51:45 (permalink)
SongCraft


rbowser


Jose and Jon - I didn't mean to cause confusion.  I've been staying with the Studio versions of Sonar for some time now.  So I don't have the Pro Channel, and that's what's causing the difference in my narrow strip view.

Randy B.


Correct me if I'm wrong;  You're saying that Sonar X1 Studio (and Essential) version (both don't have the Pro-Channel) will display the Mixer 'EQ and Graph' in both narrow and wide views?


Yes, you can see in my post #137 above, there's a screen shot of a narrow strip with the EQ plainly showing.  It seems to be the Pro Channel plug-in which clogs up the works, and I'm on X1 Studio, so don't have that plug-in.

Randy B.

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Re:X1 Narrow Console - My Dream 2010/12/10 19:52:32 (permalink)
ummm... yes. that looks about right. 

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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 21:22:41 (permalink)
rbowser


SongCraft


rbowser


Jose and Jon - I didn't mean to cause confusion.  I've been staying with the Studio versions of Sonar for some time now.  So I don't have the Pro Channel, and that's what's causing the difference in my narrow strip view.

Randy B.


Correct me if I'm wrong;  You're saying that Sonar X1 Studio (and Essential) version (both don't have the Pro-Channel) will display the Mixer 'EQ and Graph' in both narrow and wide views?


Yes, you can see in my post #137 above, there's a screen shot of a narrow strip with the EQ plainly showing.  It seems to be the Pro Channel plug-in which clogs up the works, and I'm on X1 Studio, so don't have that plug-in.

Randy B.


Thanks for that info.

So that still leaves a few design flaws in 'narrow view' such as;  overlaying of numeric (example; just under the fader/meter) and 'Track Title names abbreviated to just one letter?, that IMO is unacceptable.


       In regards to the Mixer View ~ I would suggest to CW the following:

(1): Track Numbers on a separate space above or below track titles. 

(2): Track Titles separated space above or below Track Number.  In Narrow View maybe Track-Titles could be displayed (optional) vertically between the fader and meter.   The problem with narrow view is; Track Titles don't have enough space to be displayed horizontally.

(3): Numerical Values also need to be separated above and below so that they don't 'overlap' one another.

(4): Pro Channel (Producer exclusive) needs 'EQ Graph' to automatically 'replace' of the Sonitus EQ Graph when the Pro Channel is in use.

(5): Rotary Controls look nice but aren't as mouse friendly unless the 'scroll-wheel' works effectively with option to hold 'shift' key to reduce numerical increments, another thing to consider is; Rotary Controls also takes up more space.... it be easier if the UI used horizontal sliders (example: horizontal Pan controls) much like previous versions of Sonar.   iZotope Ozone.4 , UI is the perfect example of NOT trying to look like real-life hardware controls thereby the main focus is based on user-friendliness in a software environment.

(6): FX-Bin / Plugins - those large 'Lights' displayed next to FX plugins are wasted space.  I think 'Color' the FX plugin Title/name as visual confirmation = active (on) and white-out italic/font = inactive (off) is all that's required, with Right-Click/menu option to toggle on/off.



 
 
cornieleous
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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 21:37:15 (permalink)
Jose7822


Yeap, I thought this was a weird decision.

Hope they change this, cause it was better before.


I am seeing quite a few things that way again today as I run into walls and have to do things the new way (not always faster by any means). I sound like a broken record at this point, but I'll barge in wherever I can and say this since I feel pretty strongly about it after two days using X1: Cake could have cleaned up the interface AND kept these old useful features. Cakewalk, if you are listening, the name of the game is OPTIONS. Don't force people into one way of doing things, especially if it the new way is not thoroughly thought through.

Make the default interface really clean and basic if you want, but let us have some of that customization and control back, pretty please!!! Much of X1 is really awesome, but a lot of the things stripped out were very dear to my workflow.


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Re:Console view narrow strips Sonar 8.5.3 vs. X1 2010/12/10 21:39:02 (permalink)
HumbleNoise


n0rd, I think your post needs to be front and center in this thread with a dedicated link of some kind. It's really good work.

Here it is again for those who might miss the link above

http://forum.cakewalk.com...58&mpage=1#2153458

It's shame that it most likely will not be implemented by the Bakers when it in fact it should probably be adapted in its entirety.

The reason I suggest it will not be implemented is because of my previous experience with other software and user interfaces. I have seen numerous times where we, the users, come up with simply brilliant design ideas but the wheels of software development teams seem to always turn in another direction. Seems so backwards.

Here's a group of 100's of users that can be tapped for so many different purposes but sometimes the end product becomes something that no user would have designed.

I understand the difficulty and so appreciate the efforts that the Bakers have put into this product but here's an opportunity to be truly cutting edge by taking a great idea from a user and running with it.

Perhaps there are a couple of software engineers who can enlighten us on why a great idea like this (or others in your experience) may not or can not be implemented.

I wonder what the narrow console will look like in the future? Hopefully your idea, n0rd, gets some strong consideration.
Great post, just had to say so. I've often wondered this myself.


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