This is no hardware specific authorization. You register with your serial number by web, email or phone. In exchange you get a registration code. There is no hardware component, hardware ID, etc, involved in the process. In fact if you register with us already it's virtually the same procedure.

Isnt this the way you register Native Instruments products?
So Is there a number limit (certain number of times) to getting this reg code, before someone at Cake needs to reset your personal counter? And must you log in to the Sonar site with a designated user name and password in order to get to this registration code? Only asking because I hardly ever install something right the 1st time when its send-response coded...

ORIGINAL: Noah330

I am serious about wanting a more secure copy protection enviroment.

Here are a few reasons why a dongle would be a great idea:

1- I have invested a lot of money in Cakewalk products and upgrades since my ProAudio days. Cakewalk would make more money and be able to either lower the prices of upgrades or give us more upgrades, maintainence patches or products if there were not so many unregistered users.

There is absolutely no evidence for this assertion / guess / wishful thinking, and indeed it seems highly unlikely. You can't simply presume that all the people using cracks would buy the product if they couldn't get a crack. Most of them probably wouldn't - many people download cracks by the truckload that they hardly or never even use, just because they can. Those people are not going to fork out good money for the same program, just so they can play around with it for a few hour and then forget about it.

At the same time, most pro users (not all, sure, but most) need to be above board, have legal licenses for the sake of their clients, want access to tech support in an emergency etc. And they can write it off to tax, so MOST of them buy the prodect already.

So this leave one remaining sector - the "serious" home user. This is a sector Cakewalk traditionally has a strong hold over, and yes, many of these users will be using cracks. How many would buy the product if they couldn't get cracks? We can never really know - undoubtedly some, but there'd also probably be many that would opt for cheaper or free programs instead - tracktion etc. Once money's concerned, they're more likely to actually analyse and only buy what they really need.

Then even after all this, there are further factors that effect the economics of the issue:

- Many of Cakewalks CURRENT user base buy the products precisely BECAUSE there is no copy protection. (In case you hadn't noticed, you appear to be in a minority here :))Any economic analysis of the benefits of copy protection must also take into account how many of these customers would be LOST if it were adopted. At the moment Cakewalk has a unique position as the only major DAW manufacturer not to use CP. That's a "Unique Selling Point", which as any marketing man knows is not something to give up lightly.

- All CP schemes get cracked anyway. You can easily find cracks of Cubase, Nuendo, Logic etc. There are probably just as many people USING cracks of these programs as of Sonar.

- CP schemes are expensive to design, implement and keep up to date. It is a constant game of cat-and-mouse trying to stay one step ahead of the crackers, and that means paying for man-hours, of highly skilled, expensive programmers. Cakewalk are a small company, and their overheads as is are probably relatively low. Taking on a commitment like that would substantially increase their overheads, likely resulting in HIGHER prices, not lower.

After all, which cost more now, Cubase or Sonar? The feature set is roughly equivalent. No need to suggest on this board which is obviously the better product :)

- Finally, there's the old Microsoft in China argument: If they're going to be using cracks, we want them to be using cracks of OUR software, not the competitions! Because every home user who uses, learns, and grows to love their crack of Sonar, is a potential aspiring pro who may buy it one day. This may seem like a contrived kind of benefit to Cakewalk, but it's more benefit than the guy who uses a crack of Cubase or Logic.

So really, the economic issues are far more complicated than you make out, and many of them actually favour NOT using CP. No-one can say for sure which is right, and it depends as much as anything on the particular positioning of the company in the market, how they see their future and growth, how they can differentiate themselves and so on. I'm sure Cakewalk have thought long and hard about this, and they've come to the conclusion that they are better off without CP. I for one am really glad about this, and it appears I'm not alone.

I use Sonar and Pyro5 on my studio computer. It never touches the internet - never. Pyro seems to use a similar protection scheme to that being described for this new version of Sonar.

Pyro runs fine
****BUT****
every blasted time I start it, I get a message "the web page you requested is not available offline" -- ITS TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ON THE BLASTED INTERNET WITHOUT MY WANTING IT TO.

If Sonar5 does this I'm gonna be VERY upset.
-lee-

This behavior from Pyro might be the CDDB?

I sincerely doubt the software is meant to do that every time, and I can guarantee Sonar 5 will not - how many studios connect their computers to the internet? You should check the settings of the application, or ask tech support about it.


D.

Add a crazy copy protection schema and Sonar 4 would be the last version on Cakewalk software that ever gets installed on my computer. Which would really not be a bad thing as it works just fine for me, 4.0.3 patch and all :)

I will not even look at products with built in virus's like PACE and other schemas. It should be illegal to bundle a virus with your product.

AXE

ORIGINAL: cornieleous

I use Sonar and Pyro5 on my studio computer. It never touches the internet - never. Pyro seems to use a similar protection scheme to that being described for this new version of Sonar.

Pyro runs fine
****BUT****
every blasted time I start it, I get a message "the web page you requested is not available offline" -- ITS TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ON THE BLASTED INTERNET WITHOUT MY WANTING IT TO.

If Sonar5 does this I'm gonna be VERY upset.
-lee-

This behavior from Pyro might be the CDDB?

I sincerely doubt the software is meant to do that every time, and I can guarantee Sonar 5 will not - how many studios connect their computers to the internet? You should check the settings of the application, or ask tech support about it.


D.

I wish it was -- but it appears from installing it on a different computer to test that it only does it until it successfully connects once - to something, I don't know what. I *HATE* software "calling home" without telling me/getting my permission! (I also hate piracy, BTW)
-lee-

I've bought every version of the top of the line package since Pro Audio 9. I've been an advocate for Sonar and the PC platform in L.A. for quite a few years now. If Sonar gets a dongle, or even call and response 'authentication', basically anything more than a serial number, I PROMISE YOU, I will not buy another version until they remove that.

Rico

Cakewalk's policy on this was an important reason I bought it. I have dealt with copy protection for years in the EDA (CAD) world and I have absolutley NO desire to deal with it in recording.

boo dongles- worst idea evar...

I'm sure that this has been talked out in this thread, but I had to chime in...

1- I have invested a lot of money in Cakewalk products and upgrades since my ProAudio days. Cakewalk would make more money and be able to either lower the prices of upgrades or give us more upgrades, maintainence patches or products if there were not so many unregistered users.

Cakewalk would very likely -lose- money with this approach. It costs money to develop and support a dongle system (or to license it from someone like PACE). Dongle-protected software always ends up cracked (usually via dongle emulators). Many potential customers avoid software that involves a dongle.

2- It would put an end to many of the people blaming Cakewalk for their crashes and system issues. Many people who use warez or cracked products have corrupt files or are missing files and that is why they have problems with their systems. If Sonar had a dongle or some other sort of protection this would be eliminated.

Not even close. Currently, Sonar has no copy protection. There are no special "warez" versions out there. People running illegal copies are running the exact same thing the registered owners are running. With a dongle system... the illegal copies -would- involve cracks or dongle emulation, and so would be far more likely to have problems.

Bottom line... Cakewalk spends more money to support a dongle. Cakewalk loses customers who despise invasive copy protection. And illegal copies are just as prevalent as before.

-S

ORIGINAL: Gordon

My 2 cents.

C/R OK maybe. But if Cakewalk implements dongle CP, then I will be forced not to upgrade. NO DONGLE=NO SALE!

Gordon

shouldn't that be DONGLE=NO SALE?

shouldn't that be DONGLE=NO SALE?

Right. I was getting too steamed up.

Thanks Ron for the heads u.

Inconvenient copy protection is the reason I chose not to purchase the latest version of Adobe Photoshop. To hell with them. They want me to pay hundreds of dollars and jump through hurdles to use their software? My 6 year old copy serves me just fine. I'll continue to use that.

As far as software piracy goes, is there anyone who has never pirated software? As one poster mentioned, many software pirates are future customers. I learned computer programming on pirated software--when I was in college and flat broke. Now Microsoft has made thousands of dollars off of me because I use their programming tools because it is what I learned on--a pirated copy, no less. Had I not got that pirated copy, I would have learned on something else.

Software pirates use what they use because they can get it for free. They are NOT going to purchase it. If they can't get it for free, they won't buy it--they'll just not use it or use something else. You can't lose a sale you never had a chance to get in the first place.

One reason, I think, that people pirate software is because of the asymetrical legal copyrights. If you buy a piece of software and it sucks, what are your options? Generally, you can't get a refund. All you can do is exchange your CD for another one. Which doesn't solve the problem that the software is crappy. So the consumer is stuck--and out money. Try before you buy helps. But not all software companies offer that.

Good software is worth paying for. Really good software is worth every penny, and then some.

ORIGINAL: rgoldie

jeez. i wish i hadn't started this thread now! so heated!!!

Yes, but Cakewalk got a free virtual focus group from hell on on the subject.

Thank you, Cakewalk, for making a wise decision, which I believe will benefit all parties concerned. Now I can continue to use Sonar in peace and freedom.

Ron, if a group of us were to found a religion around Cakewalk would we have to pay a royalty fee?

Ron, if a group of us were to found a religion around Cakewalk would we have to pay a royalty fee?

we'll if we were treated like royalty, perhaps it would be worth it.

but like many religions, a loyalty fee is more likely..

actually, i wouldn't mind a dongle .. i said it before .. as long as they're good about
responding quickly and appropriately when problems occur. with waves, i broke my
dongle and they were really really good about keeping me up and running until
i got a replacement.

i think the steinberg problem is their support network isn't/wasn't setup to handle
the additional burden associated with dongle problems. i believe that software
companies have a right to protect their intellectual property from theft and if
someday Cakewalk decides that there's too much theft of their work, then
i would understand their decision ... and there are a lot of people using
Sonar that shouldn't be .. i see it all the time .. and i won't work
with them .. period.

and what's the big deal anyway? ... you're only licensed to use it on one computer
at a time ... so .. is it just 'cause it tweaks your perceived sense
of freedom ("i could break the licensing agreement .. any time i want ?")
because the dongle isn't really that inconvenient (as least not to me it's
not).

plus, dongles are mandatory fashion accessories in many studios ... the more
you wear (red, blue, etc.) the higher you rank ... when you have enough
colors .. you eventually become white and ascend into a higher plane
of existence. [ edit -- this is the additive properties of color .. not that white
is any better ... just being overly sensitive here ]

jeff

ORIGINAL: jmarkham

actually, i wouldn't mind a dongle .. i said it before .. as long as they're good about
responding quickly and appropriately when problems occur.

jeff -

I wonder if you might be focussing on form rather than substance here, if you see what I mean. Reading between the lines, I suspect it isn't a dingle per se that you want, but a rigorous system of copy protection. As has been shown to be the case with Steinberg, dongles just don't give you that - I could get hold of cracked copies of the latest versions of Nuendo and Cubase in 48 hours if I wanted to.

.. as long as they're good about responding quickly and appropriately when problems occur.

Which they wouldn't be. If you had any idea about the difficulties that Cakewalk customers outside the USA have to endure now, you wouldn't even make that point. Emails to the official Cake distributor in Australai - the only point of contact we have - go unanswered. Phone calls inavariably end "We'll get back to you." and they never do. I wouldn't care to guess what a drama it would be for us to have ot replace a lost or broken or malfunctioning dongle.

"Sorry, Mr Client, I'll have to cancel your recording session tomorrow because my dongle is defective. What's that? When can I reschedule? No idea. I'll have to wait until Edirol get back to me. Maybe next week, maybe next month."

No, sorry, the day that Cake introduce dongles definitely will be the day I'm out of here.

Best,
Geoff