Direct guitar

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bfloyd
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2008/05/19 12:50:03 (permalink)

Direct guitar

Hello all. Ok, so I'm looking for the best practical way to record my guitar direct. I'm using a free plug that has a pretty good JCM 9000 which is the main source for my tone, so I need to just get my guitar to soundcard. Should I be using a mixer before the soundcard, perhaps just a DI box before the souncard, or maybe even both??? How do you all record your guitars direct? Thanks for the help.
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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 12:58:00 (permalink)
    First let me ask you this- What computer are you running on and what platform? Windows XP, Vista, Etc?
    Various computer's soundcards handle things differently. I know from experience just going down to Radioshack and purchasing a 1/4's to 1/8's adapter worked fine with one computer I used and sounded pretty decent. the 1/4 jack plugs to your guitar cable and the from there the 1/8's side will plug directly into your mic input on your computer. The downfall to this is a little thing called "latency". It will sound like an echoe or something of that nature. You will probably hear some hissing when recording and occasionally hear a "pop" everynow and then. Like I said, it really depends on what your built in sound card can handle.
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    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 17:14:25 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: attium88

    First let me ask you this- What computer are you running on and what platform? Windows XP, Vista, Etc?
    Various computer's soundcards handle things differently. I know from experience just going down to Radioshack and purchasing a 1/4's to 1/8's adapter worked fine with one computer I used and sounded pretty decent. the 1/4 jack plugs to your guitar cable and the from there the 1/8's side will plug directly into your mic input on your computer. The downfall to this is a little thing called "latency". It will sound like an echoe or something of that nature. You will probably hear some hissing when recording and occasionally hear a "pop" everynow and then. Like I said, it really depends on what your built in sound card can handle.


    Thanks. I'm using a stock soundcard that came with my pc (pretty low end) with Vista Home Basic. I tired to record using the 1/4in. to 1/8in. adapter and got a harsh sterile tone.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 17:27:38 (permalink)

    Bryan, have you got anything like a pedal board or guitar effects unit you normally use to power an amp?

    The sterile tone you're hearing is simply what an electric guitar sounds like close up - even something that can add a bit of compression to that dry signal will get you a much more user-friendly signal into GT.


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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 17:31:49 (permalink)
    Yeah it will have the tendency to do that. You mentioned the JCM 9000. I believe thats a halfstack. Right? In my opinion, I would drop that all-together. As far as trying to just plug in your guitar/amp combo or just your guitar to your stock soundcard. That is just WAY too much power being put into something that cant handle it. It's like trying to get a turtle to pull weights while running a marathon. Or like trying to convert New York City's power into a single 10 watt lightbulb. I think you get the idea.

    I had this same kind of problem before as well. I asked around on this forum and they had told me I should buy an "interface", basically an outside soundcard. At first, thats not what I wanted to hear but after purchasing it, I have no regrets. You can look around to find what best suits ya. M-audio and Line 6 stuff is known to be pretty good. It just depends what your looking for. I don't think there is any other way to go about recording without an upgraded soundcard. Plus, most of the interfaces you will find out there come with a cd that will have tons of presets to pick from to get the "sound" you need or want. That way, you wont have to worry about your JCM 9000 and will be able to enjoy that for live sound.
    I hope this helped ya out a bit.

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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 17:47:04 (permalink)
    bfloyd- "Thanks. I'm using a stock soundcard that came with my pc (pretty low end) with Vista Home Basic. I tired to record using the 1/4in. to 1/8in. adapter and got a harsh sterile tone. "

    Oops I stand corrected. I misread your response and thought you said a HUMMING sterile tone. My bad. Thats what happened to me when I plugged in my acoustic guitar directly. But hey, a new soundcard would still be good in my opinion anyways.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 18:12:58 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: attium88

    You can look around to find what best suits ya. M-audio and Line 6 stuff is known to be pretty good. It just depends what your looking for. I don't think there is any other way to go about recording without an upgraded soundcard.



    Sheeeesh - don't you ever give up selling the TonePort Att?

    Anyone would think you're on a bigger kick-back than Doc

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    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 18:27:45 (permalink)
    Thanks guys. The JCM 9000 I mentioned is a plugin I have, not an actual amp. Yeah, that would be too much power for the poor soundcard:) Actually, I tried using my Zoom 606 pedal on it's own and that still gave me a bad "direct harshness" tone. I got better results when I still used the 606 but ran it on bypass mode and then used the JCM 9000 plugin. This is what is leading me to believe that perhaps a small mixer or even just a direct box might help more. Basically I love the tone of the plugin - I just need to get the incoming signal up and loose the direct harshness. Any ideas?
    post edited by bfloyd - 2008/05/19 18:47:54
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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 18:29:23 (permalink)
    What can I say. . . IM A BELIEVER!

    I mean, I can't help but to say how important it is to have for recording after the night and day difference I recieved when I hooked up my UX2.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 18:33:58 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bfloyd
    I just need to get the incoming signal up and loose the direct harshness. Any ideas?



    Using the Zoom on bypass mode is probably the same as DI'ing into your soundcard Bryan - even using a compressor, some EQ and the volume out control will help your signal..

    Can you tell us what the JCM 9000 plug is Bryan, it sounds good.


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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 18:37:25 (permalink)
    bfloyd
    Thanks guys.
    The JCM 9000 I mentioned is a plugin I have, not an actual amp
    . Yeah, that would be too much power for the poor soundcard:) Actually, I tried using my Zoom 606 pedal on it's own and that still gave me a bad "direct harshness" tone. I got better results when I still used the 606 but ran it on bypass mode and then used the JCM 9000 plugin. This is what is leading me to believe that perhaps a small mixer or even just a direct box might help more. Basically I love the tone of the plugin - I just need to get the incoming signal up and loose the direct harshness. Any ideas?



    Ya Im out, it's too much over my head. . . Freaking Google didn't get my back on the JCM 9000
    #11
    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 19:01:02 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK


    ORIGINAL: bfloyd
    I just need to get the incoming signal up and loose the direct harshness. Any ideas?



    Using the Zoom on bypass mode is probably the same as DI'ing into your soundcard Bryan - even using a compressor, some EQ and the volume out control will help your signal..

    Can you tell us what the JCM 9000 plug is Bryan, it sounds good.




    Sure, no problem. I like to share freeware with everyone. Sometimes you come across some not so good and other times you find jems.

    http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm

    I just keep hearing so much about the Toneports. I'm really going to have to get off my wallet and get one.
    #12
    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 19:04:12 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: attium88

    bfloyd
    Thanks guys.
    The JCM 9000 I mentioned is a plugin I have, not an actual amp
    . Yeah, that would be too much power for the poor soundcard:) Actually, I tried using my Zoom 606 pedal on it's own and that still gave me a bad "direct harshness" tone. I got better results when I still used the 606 but ran it on bypass mode and then used the JCM 9000 plugin. This is what is leading me to believe that perhaps a small mixer or even just a direct box might help more. Basically I love the tone of the plugin - I just need to get the incoming signal up and loose the direct harshness. Any ideas?



    Ya Im out, it's too much over my head. . . Freaking Google didn't get my back on the JCM 9000


    Ha ha, oops - all this time I've been calling it JCM 9000 and it's actually named after the original JCM 900. Maybe that's why google didn't catch it, sorry. I thought I seen an extra 0 in there for copyright purposes.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 19:11:10 (permalink)

    Is it the one that comes as part of the GSuite Bryan?

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    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 19:20:01 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK


    Is it the one that comes as part of the GSuite Bryan?


    Yes, that's the one. The download link is about 3/4 down the page.
    post edited by bfloyd - 2008/05/19 19:40:15
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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 19:24:12 (permalink)
    Does this work for GTP3? And what exactly does it do? I might have to check it out. Anything for a free grunge sound for my guitar.
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 19:32:19 (permalink)
    It's part of a VST package from SimulAnalog Attium - CLICK HERE for the download page.

    Unzip the download file and then scan it with the VST adapter - the VST's will appear in your Audio>VST list in GT.








    post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2008/05/19 19:52:19

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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 20:18:41 (permalink)
    Attium,

    You'll like the smattering of Marshall's in GearBox. You should have a JCM800 at the very least. There are add ons for the JTM45, JCM900, and JCM 2000. But it's not anything like a mic'd blazing full stack!!

    Hey are you in redding or outside of town?
    post edited by Doc_Hollingsworth - 2008/05/19 20:38:25

    Doc
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    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 20:49:53 (permalink)
    Have you all tried it out before? What did you's think?
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 20:52:59 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bfloyd

    Have you all tried it out before? What did you's think?



    If you mean the Line 6 TonePort Bryan - we've nearly all got one!

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    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 21:27:56 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK


    ORIGINAL: bfloyd

    Have you all tried it out before? What did you's think?



    If you mean the Line 6 TonePort Bryan - we've nearly all got one!


    I was referring to the JCM 900 freeware . . .

    (I already know I need to get a Toneport)
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/19 22:00:11 (permalink)

    Ahh - got you know.

    I've been fiddling around with it a bit tonight - the channel B setting is too mushy for my liking and not very convincing; the A channel, however has some very usable tones from what I've tried.

    This setting provides a nice slightly overdriven sound that seems to retain excellent single string separation:



    I've done a quick example using one of the GT guitar loops - the first 5 bars are completely untreated, the next 5 use the settings for the JCM900 VST above - the reverb is pretty good on this I reckon!

    CLICK HERE to listen to the effect.


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    Doc_Hollingsworth
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 09:49:11 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: bfloyd

    Have you all tried it out before? What did you's think?


    A Marshall JCM900? Why yes. It sounds great when you have the master volume turned up to 10 and the gain at about 7. I like the JCM800 2210 better though. And the new JVM410 is absolutely wonderful.

    Oh you meant the plugin!? Uh.... no. I've gotten quite spoiled with the Line 6 GearBox. If at all possible get a ToneProt UX2 or a FloorPod if you do any live work. They make some good stuff and it's expandable. being the gearwhore that I am I had to run out and get all the model packs. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So far I've been very happy.

    Doc
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    #23
    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 10:19:22 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK


    Ahh - got you know.

    I've been fiddling around with it a bit tonight - the channel B setting is too mushy for my liking and not very convincing; the A channel, however has some very usable tones from what I've tried.

    This setting provides a nice slightly overdriven sound that seems to retain excellent single string separation:



    I've done a quick example using one of the GT guitar loops - the first 5 bars are completely untreated, the next 5 use the settings for the JCM900 VST above - the reverb is pretty good on this I reckon!

    CLICK HERE to listen to the effect.




    Thanks for the setting example. I found a similar setting to yours however I found I cut the low completely out and raised the presence a bit more. Gave me more of a glassy tone with my humbucking tele.

    Back to the original question, I've been searching and I found an article on DI boxes that stated they are used when connecting an unbalanced signal (i.e. guitar cable) to a microphone input. Now, I have been trying to use the "line in" on my soundcard to record with but couldn't get it to work. I checked all the settings on my soundcard setting page and it shows everything active, but I still couldn't get a signal. This forced me to use the "mic in" where I found I got a signal. Perhaps this is why I am getting that brittle harshness. Here's a little clip I threw together for you to hear what I'm talking about. Don't listen to the guitar playing as I just did a one take with a couple of kids crawling on me:)

    http://www.sendspace.com/file/on00zp

    This was recorded going from guitar to Zoom 606 unit in bypass mode, and then direct to mic in on soundcard. Then the JCM 900 was placed in the effect chain. The guitar comes in after 16 bars. (going for an electronic rock thingy).
    post edited by bfloyd - 2008/05/20 10:40:36
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    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 10:24:50 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Doc_Hollingsworth


    ORIGINAL: bfloyd

    Have you all tried it out before? What did you's think?


    A Marshall JCM900? Why yes. It sounds great when you have the master volume turned up to 10 and the gain at about 7. I like the JCM800 2210 better though. And the new JVM410 is absolutely wonderful.

    Oh you meant the plugin!? Uh.... no. I've gotten quite spoiled with the Line 6 GearBox. If at all possible get a ToneProt UX2 or a FloorPod if you do any live work. They make some good stuff and it's expandable. being the gearwhore that I am I had to run out and get all the model packs. I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So far I've been very happy.


    I envy you. I never had the opportunity to play through the real amps though have always wanted to. I think abou the best amp I ever played through, expensive that is, was a Fender Twin. Loved that. Oh yeah, and a Peavey 5150 full stack. That was a monster! As for the real Marshalls, nothing:(

    I'll need to check into the Gearbox and I already know I need to get a Toneport from all the reviews here.

    Wait a minute, is Gearbox the software that comes with the Toneports or is it seperate? I just found a bundle that shows Gearbox coming with a Toneport for just $30 more than the Toneport by itself.
    post edited by bfloyd - 2008/05/20 10:48:51
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    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 11:27:55 (permalink)

    Hi there Bryan

    That guitar tone sounds OK through my monitors mate - considering your signal path is just about as basic as it can get, using the mic in on a built-in soundcard and amping it up with a free, albeit very usable VST, that's actually quite impressive.

    I still can't work out why you can't use the line-in for your signal, I may be wrong here but the mic-in is usually boosted to give you a hotter signal from low output microphones.

    As to those amps you mention, again Bryan, the Fender Twin is a thoroughbred classic and I'll be prepared to sell one of my kidneys for an EVH 5150 full stack!

    Maybe the brittle sound you are perceiving is understandable after playing through those two beauties!

    To the TonePort - for reasonably serious recording duties, I'd suggest the TonePort UX2 as the entry level point - this TonePort has enough decent ins and outs to keep most keen amateurs happy - it also features a phantom +48V boost for XLR connected condenser mics that require it.

    As you rightly say, the Gearbox software comes bundled with your TonePort and contains an excellent set of amp and cabinet models, as well as a good set of effects and processors. The TonePort's ins and outs can all be controlled from this interface as well.

    The single best thing about the TonePort in general is that they are also a very capable soundcard and when connected to one of your PC's UXB 2.0 ports they can be set up to easily handle all your audio.

    With Line 6's ToneDirect monitoring system, your TonePort makes it possible to hear all the added FXs and settings at virtually zero latency - not quite, but if you get the ASIO drivers that come with the TonePort set up just right, you'll never notice it.

    Have a look at some of the videos on the Line 6 products pages that show the TonePorts in action - they are very well put together and supplement the specification pages nicely.


    Steve

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    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 11:43:52 (permalink)
    I envy you. I never had the opportunity to play through the real amps though have always wanted to. I think abou the best amp I ever played through, expensive that is, was a Fender Twin. Loved that. Oh yeah, and a Peavey 5150 full stack. That was a monster! As for the real Marshalls, nothing:(


    Go down to your local Guitar Center. They will let ya do anything.

    Hey are you in redding or outside of town?


    Hey Doc, I am in the heart of Redding, CA. Too hot over here. Well not today. Its cloudy. . . Kinda odd if ya ask me.
    #27
    bfloyd
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 13:31:50 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: SteveStrummerUK


    Hi there Bryan

    That guitar tone sounds OK through my monitors mate - considering your signal path is just about as basic as it can get, using the mic in on a built-in soundcard and amping it up with a free, albeit very usable VST, that's actually quite impressive.

    I still can't work out why you can't use the line-in for your signal, I may be wrong here but the mic-in is usually boosted to give you a hotter signal from low output microphones.

    As to those amps you mention, again Bryan, the Fender Twin is a thoroughbred classic and I'll be prepared to sell one of my kidneys for an EVH 5150 full stack!

    Maybe the brittle sound you are perceiving is understandable after playing through those two beauties!

    To the TonePort - for reasonably serious recording duties, I'd suggest the TonePort UX2 as the entry level point - this TonePort has enough decent ins and outs to keep most keen amateurs happy - it also features a phantom +48V boost for XLR connected condenser mics that require it.

    As you rightly say, the Gearbox software comes bundled with your TonePort and contains an excellent set of amp and cabinet models, as well as a good set of effects and processors. The TonePort's ins and outs can all be controlled from this interface as well.

    The single best thing about the TonePort in general is that they are also a very capable soundcard and when connected to one of your PC's UXB 2.0 ports they can be set up to easily handle all your audio.

    With Line 6's ToneDirect monitoring system, your TonePort makes it possible to hear all the added FXs and settings at virtually zero latency - not quite, but if you get the ASIO drivers that come with the TonePort set up just right, you'll never notice it.

    Have a look at some of the videos on the Line 6 products pages that show the TonePorts in action - they are very well put together and supplement the specification pages nicely.


    Steve



    Thanks for all the info Steve. The bundle package that I am looking at comes with the Toneport (looks like the GX with an extra push button on the front face), Gearbox, along with Amp Farm. Musicians Friend has them labeled as Silver Bundle and Gold Bundle. I believe the Gold Bundle also has Echo Farm with it too but I'm not sure. Here's the link:

    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-?sku=706520

    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-GearBox-PlugIn-Gold-Bundle?sku=706521


    #28
    SteveStrummerUK
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 13:40:59 (permalink)
    Bryan, another of the guys in here, Telewhacker, was going to get the Gold bundle recently for that excellent price [I think].

    He hasn't been in the forum for a while but if you check through THIS THREAD you'll see how the discussion progressed.

    I don't think his PM or e-mail options are turned on so I'll try bumping the thread to see if he can offer any relevant info on the bundle.








    post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2008/05/20 14:01:16

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    #29
    attium88
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    RE: Direct guitar 2008/05/20 13:53:25 (permalink)
    UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2! UX2!

    Just kidding,
    Haha. Well it doesnt really matter if you get the GX or the UX2. If you have no need for a mic input for vocals, then why not purchase the GX. I'm certainly no expert though. I just know how much money can limit the things you need.
    #30
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