Does an analog summing mixer really make mixes sound better?

I have heard lots of talk about this. Do you guys think mixing stems through a nice anolog mixer or summing box will make mixes sound better that just mixing all inside the computer?

I came from the analog school and a summing buss absolutley would have sounded better a year or so ago. But, now that the software has enough resolution, and I actually understand how to mix in a computer, I'd say no. My mixes from a year or so ago were **** though.

Personally, I have no experience directly with this but was curious at one point.......if you are serious and have a budget, take a look at the DANGEROUS STUFF HERE

I doubt seriously the difference in sound is going to be significant and certainly not worth the hassle of having to do a realtime external mixdown. I mean every time you merge buses in Sonar you've got summing going on. Every fx plugin that has a wet/dry mix is doing summing. Seems like it would be very difficult to avoid it, and if you really wanted to you might as well just stick to an all-analog rig.

Can someone tell me why these dangerous 'summer's are so expensive? Looks like a 16-channel mono mixer with no knobs to me ... ? What am I missing?

Follow the links HornPlayer provided. I've ordered the CD, and I've visited the forum. Nothing has been "solved", and most probably never will be. But the Cd is there for you to make up your own mind. That's the only way you'll ever be satisfied. Get the CD, listen, find the ones you like the best, and note why. Then follow the key, and find out which is which.

Or, if you are a gearhound, go buy a nice analogue console. Or start off buying a good analogue EQ, and stereo compressor. Master your projects through them. If you can hear a difference at the mastering stage, then move on to buying an analogue desk.

This question has no absolute answer.
A mix on either can sound fantastic... or like rubish.

Unless you have a major reason to go analog (read: you have some prime-time analog processors/etc) you're probably better off taking the 'minimalist' approach and maintaining fidelity by keeping the music 'in the box'. (avoiding extra stages of D/A A/D conversion)

The other reason some folks prefer to go analog is because the gear has plenty of knobs/faders/etc that allow quick tweaking. Mixing via mouse *can* be tedious.
(Some of the newer DAW control surfaces are starting to fill these gaps.)

I'd say for practical purposes digital would be better (less noise, no distortion if you aren't clipping your mix).

I'd definitely go digital if my only other alternatives was a cheap mixing console going into cheap a/d converters.

But what I think people like about analog is the combination of noise and subtle nonlinearities adds warmth, and power to your mix.

To really achieve this effect, you would want a pretty expensive console as well as some good D/A converters. Those expensive consoles are usually designed to sound good at various gain stages in your mix (low levels and even at clipping).

In my setup, I really can't hear a difference. But there is nothing like clipping my soundcraft with a good kick drum. Good for an effect but I definitely wouldn't want to mix like that.

When I read the MIX review http://mixonline.com/products/review/audio_nautilus_commander_analog/ I wondered the same thing. But it occurred to me that the reviewer never mentioned where the stems were and how they got to the analog ins of the summing box. Only that they were outed to a Mastlink at 24/96. So my thought is that quality-wise, you should get similar results if you recorded the tracks to Sonar at 24/96, outputed your mix at the same rate, and were careful not to downsample and dither until immediately before burning. And unless the stems were recorded analog, maybe better results with fewer conversions.

Howard

ORIGINAL: jsaras
The other reality of digital summing that we've all experienced it that 0db + 0db = more than 0dB.!

That is also true of analog mixing.

Thanks for all the help. I think I will save the bucks for a great mic and better sound treatment for my room.

To be honest when I mix and sum in an analog mixer, the mix comes out more "true" to what I hear during playback prior to mixing. Most of the time, my computer mixes have to be tweaked because certain elements will be louder or softer. Has anyone else experienced this?

Wow, this is an old thread.  Even 'Yep' and 'TheMidiroom' are in it, which says a lot :-)

FWIW, Slate Digital is in the beta stages of a digital solution to analog summing called the 'Virtual Console Collection'.  It comes with a Channel Strip and a Mix Bus plugin with 4 console emulations (SSl, Neve, API and Trident).  I've tried their demo, but they are WAY too unstable for me (at least in Sonar 64 bit).  They have both a 32 bit and a 64 bit version, but they hang Sonar and the plugins take a few seconds to open.  I can't really say much about this product since I didn't get a chance to test it correctly, but the little I did didn't impress me much.

SoundToys also has a plugin called 'Decapitator' which could be used for the same purpose.  That one I have tested a little and I really like what it does to drum tracks.  However, it also has problems in Sonar 64 bit (the VU meter doesn't work at all, the Style buttons don't light up and searching for presets/changing parameters can have a sort of freezing effect - though clicking anywhere fixes this) which will hopefully be fixed in a few weeks.  Their plugins are not 64 bit yet, but it is in their plans to port them sometime in the future.  Great plugins otherwise, especially EchoBoy, PanMan and Decapitator.

I think that summing to analog is not as necessary anymore to get a good sound.  Mixing ITB with the right tools can give you the same results.  It's all a matter of taste, technique and the right (quality) tools for the job.


Take care!

Im going to contact themidiroom and tell him he has a response form 5.3 years ago

More current and active thread here. not saying that Jose isnt active
http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1173531

this is a question for http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/

you'll find threads with like 300 responses.

try to find someone who HATES rock music and has nothing to do with rock music.  listen to
their arguments for or against it.  you want to find someone who cherishes neutral sound, not
someone who likes tape decks and neve consoles.  those can produce great sounds, but they
are not neutral.  "neutral" is somewhat of a difficult argument in audio.  but you want someone
who is at least arguing from that perspective.

my personal take is that Cakewalk's commitment to 64 bit architecture is making the analog
summing argument less and less valid.  IMHO you would be better off dropping 30 grand on a
righteous monitoring system and a tuned room than blowing money on analog outboard.

my personal take is that Cakewalk's commitment to 64 bit architecture is making the analog summing argument less and less valid.

 
I agree. When I saw the thread title, my first thought was: "Yes, I use a summing mixer; it's called Master Bus."