Helpful ReplyDowngrading from X2a to X1d

Page: < 123 > Showing page 2 of 3
Author
jscomposer
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 175
  • Joined: 2013/02/03 15:57:01
  • Location: Canada, Eh!
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 11:34:52 (permalink)
Exactly.
#31
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 11:48:04 (permalink)
You've got a few things working against you here. Your system is a little underpowered but with some system tweaks, using the track freeze function and increasing your latency when not tracking you should be able to get X2 working a little better.
 
Next you are using third party plugs which can be problematic even on the best of systems. Contact Cake to see if there are any known issues with the plugins you are using and if they have any solutions for you.
 
Third you are using 32 bit plugs on 64 bit OS and Sonar install which again can be problematic at the best of times. You have already discovered Jbridge but that still isn't as good as just using a 64 bit plug. Go to all the websites for the plugs you use and see if they have 64 bit versions. Many will have them offered free to existing users. Ones that don't and aren't cooperate then either find a suitable 64 bit alternative or switch to X1, apply the effect then render the track and import it back into the X2 project.
 
There is also the issue that has already been brought up. You are seriously lacking in RAM and your 64 bit OS and Sonar install is pointless with under 4GB. If you can get another 6GB of RAM onto your system you should do it (probably best to buy 8GB of the same kind instead of trying to match up to your existing RAM... RAM is not very expensive). If you can afford new RAM or there is something preventing from installing some and you still want to use your 32bit plugs you might as well switch to Win7 32 bit if you already have it or Win 32. However I'm not sure if that would mean you'd have to buy another copy of windows. If so that's a pretty expensive solution just to use some old plugs. I'm not sure whether Win8 is more resource intensive either but you may want to look into that because between that and Sonar it may be sinking your system and 7 may work better... but I really don't know. Also your sig says you are on on the Prerelease version of Win8. If that is the case they have done a lot of patches. You should probably get the most up to date version of whatever OS you are using.
 
X2 has it's problems but you should be able to get it to work without crashing all the time on your system if you are smart about it. It's worth it even if you have to go back to X1 to perform specific tasks every now and again.
#32
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 11:57:31 (permalink)
Beep see you are very valuable here. No one could have done a better job.  

Best
John
#33
Soundblend
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 726
  • Joined: 2011/08/15 14:01:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:00:29 (permalink)
Well that is true, but of course i have plugins that i use mostly is 64 bit plugins
there's just a few plugins that is 32 bit.
I see no reason to install Sonar as 32 bit ? and install all the others as 32bit !

Anyway the problem is Bitbridge itself, and the solution to that is just using JBridge.

other than that Sonar is working great.

Yes and yes... i may have to get some more memory for my computer.
post edited by Soundblend - 2013/10/08 12:07:01
#34
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:03:25 (permalink)
Soundblend
Good question, i guess it has to do with the " taste " how they sound and compress !

As you know i now have X1d, and there's not exactly a huge amount of effect plugins there.
there is the Sonitius suite, it's ok but nothing more.

Now i am not after a huge collection of plugins, ill rather have a few good ones that i really know. 

Guess we all have some picture of what kind, of sound we are looking for
and hence what plugins we choose to use.

if i had the money i would probably get this but it's to expensive for me.

Yes Sonar Producer, have a lot of great plugins / channel strip etc, and now also melodyne.
maybe later when i can earn some money of recording and mixing
i would be able to upgrade to X3, with all the goodies there !

Now for me at present time, it's just a dream but who knows, time may change.
 


No sir the Sonitius suite is a great collection of very high quality plugins. Those that dismiss them generally don't have a clue about good plugins.  Plus you have X2 and what it comes with. 

Best
John
#35
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:07:19 (permalink)
There is no advantage to using 64bit plug-ins in 2GB of RAM either. The 32bit versions would run just as well, if not better. As has been suggested, the hardware, OS and DAW are a bad match. The least cost solution to the best configuration given the available hardware/OS would be to run everything 32bit.
#36
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:07:36 (permalink)
John
Beep see you are very valuable here. No one could have done a better job.  




I just regurgitate what I've learned here. It's all ya'll that deserve the credit when I make the occasional correct observation. ;-)
#37
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:09:07 (permalink)
You kill me Beep! 

Best
John
#38
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:14:29 (permalink)
Tis the truth. Without guys like yourself and our good friend scook here I'd be in a corner somewhere covered in my own waste mumbling to myself.
#39
Soundblend
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 726
  • Joined: 2011/08/15 14:01:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:15:03 (permalink)
Discussing plugins is good , but will not always come to a solution for everyone.
One person may like waves plugins, another would not..

You say that :
Those who dismiss them generally don't have a clue about good plugins !

I do not agree there, it all comes to the taste and how you hear the sound is processed
and what you are able to listen for.
Also the knowledge how to use em, and what to adjust to get a better result.
If you don't know how to use an EQ, and what to listen for, any EQ would do anyway.
the same goes for Compressors etc.
#40
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:20:32 (permalink)
Soundblend
Discussing plugins is good , but will not always come to a solution for everyone.
One person may like waves plugins, another would not..

You say that :
Those who dismiss them generally don't have a clue about good plugins !

I do not agree there, it all comes to the taste and how you hear the sound is processed.
Also the knowledge how to use em, and what to adjust.




Right... but if they are crippling your system it's time to find other options. There are plenty out there and most stuff is just variations on the same basic principles. You are missing out on a lot of stuff X2 has to offer. As I said, try X2 without those plugs and when you absolutely need to them switch to X1, render, and drag them back into X2. I have issues with X2 but mixing is not one of them.
#41
Soundblend
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 726
  • Joined: 2011/08/15 14:01:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:28:11 (permalink)
That is why i am still is searching for EQ and Compressors mainly from
the same company if possible, and of course as 64 bit plugs.
When i do find an EQ i like and a Compressor or two, ill be satisfied
and ditch the 32 bit ones.

And the next DAW will be X3 of course, but only when i have the cash for it
and it is stable.

then i do not have to worry about Bitridge or Jbridge.
#42
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:31:54 (permalink)
Oh and CRANK UP YOUR BUFFERS while mixing. As high as they'll go if need be. The more time you allow your system to process the effects the less likely it is you are going to have dropouts/crashes.
 
A good way to keep an eye on these things is to insert the Performance Module into the Control Bar (right click the Control Bar and select Performance Module until it appears). You see exactly how much CPU and Ram power is being used up by what. If it starts maxing out up your buffers and/or start freezing some tracks and/or archiving tracks you don't need for what you are doing.
 
There are guys on here doing stuff on systems even less powerful than yours but they are smart about their resource consumption and system set up so it works. Also you may want to look into investing some money into an interface that will provide better performance. I'm not sure what you are using at the moment but you can get something pretty powerful with limited i/o for $150 or so and use that just for mixing.
 
Another thing to consider is if tracking is being a pain in X2 because you can't get your latency down far enough do your tracking in X1 and then open the project in X2 for editing/mixing. Or even do your tracking AND editing in X1 then do the mixing in X2. That way you have more tools to mix with and a better interface. I find editing to be problematic in X2 but when it is working it is easier than X1 but that's my opinion. Your workflow may be different.
 
When are tools are limited we use our minds to make those tools do what we need them to. Think back to the Beatles or any number of great old school bands who put out amazing productions with only a four track and some ingenuity at their disposal.
 
#43
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:36:36 (permalink)
Yes over the years members have done extensive tests on them and they have always faired well. I have a fair amount of free plugins but the vast majority are from well known developers that provide them to entice one to buy their paid for plugins. Its a way to advertise without being blatant about it. But I wont compromise my system to run 32 bit free plugins when there so many 64 bit ones out there. Then I am a strong user of PC modules which in a lot of cases replace plugins that may cost a lot more. 
 
The only plugin from CW that I have very little respect for is Boost 11. It was not meant for Sonar Producer but members demanded it to be included and CW did include it.
 
CW has always tried to provide quality plugins for its flagship DAW.  Most new members are under the impression that because these plugins are given away they must be second rate. That is a mistake. 
 
I have use a number of DAWs through the years and no other DAW comes with the plugins of comparable quality. Not Logic not Cubase and certainly not Reaper. 
 
The Sonitus ones are unique in that they are quite capable of emulating many other types of well known hardware FX.  Or they can be transparent. However one has to experiment with them to know this. 
 
In the end though what Beepster and Scook posted is more to the point and should be taken very seriously. 
 
You need a stable system to get the most out of what you already have. 
 
Up your RAM to at least 8 GB and I think a lot of you troubles will fade into the past. 
 
 
 
   

Best
John
#44
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:38:06 (permalink)
Soundblend
That is why i am still is searching for EQ and Compressors mainly from
the same company if possible, and of course as 64 bit plugs.
When i do find an EQ i like and a Compressor or two, ill be satisfied
and ditch the 32 bit ones.

And the next DAW will be X3 of course, but only when i have the cash for it
and it is stable.

then i do not have to worry about Bitridge or Jbridge.




I hate to say it but you really should sink some cash into buying/building a new system before upgrading. These types of problems will only get worse as time goes on. It sucks and I'm still feeling the sting of investing in mine but sometimes it just has to be done to stay current. You can get a more than ample rig for $700-800 or build an even better one for the same price. I built a top of line (for a year ago) powerhouse system for about $1200 and I could have probably gotten away with far less. Take a look at the Systems section of this site... especially the ADK link to see what is appropriate. The ADK guys have a section on their site where you can "build" your own system and it gives dropdown menus of various components they use. It is a very good guideline for building your own.
 
Good luck.
 
Oh and if I had purchased an equivalent system from them it would have been around $500 more not including tax and shipping (which would have likely put it well over $2000). I didn't get all the fancy set up, system tweaks and support which would have been nice but I was on a shoe string and my system works pretty darn good if I do say so myself. Not bad for a first time build. I did however have some help from a very smart friend but there are also tons of those crawling around this site and there are even guys you can call who'll give you advice for a small fee.
#45
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:42:01 (permalink)
I don't get why Soundblend would run any 64 bit plugs at all, let alone switch the last remaining 32 bit ones to 64. Unless you're getting the extra RAM. With 2GB, there is literally no point and it creates extra load on our system to use the Bitbridge. Not to mention you create extra possibilities for instability. You can easily install Sonar 32 bit on 64 bit Windows.
#46
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:44:44 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
. You can easily install Sonar 32 bit on 64 bit Windows.



I wasn't sure about this. Does this introduce any stability issues itself? Because that would indeed be the best solution without have to drop a single penny.
#47
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:46:22 (permalink)
Beepster
Sanderxpander
. You can easily install Sonar 32 bit on 64 bit Windows.



Does this introduce any stability issues itself? Because that would indeed be the best solution without have to drop a single penny.


No. As a matter of fact, it will be MORE stable given the HW/OS combination. That is why several have recommended it in this thread.
#48
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:48:15 (permalink)
scook
Beepster
Sanderxpander
. You can easily install Sonar 32 bit on 64 bit Windows.



Does this introduce any stability issues itself? Because that would indeed be the best solution without have to drop a single penny.


No. As a matter of fact, it will be MORE stable given the HW/OS combination. That is why several have recommended it in this thread.




Good to know... and yeah, I've only kind of skimmed the thread as I'm a little distracted by some other stuff here in the meatworld today. Cheers.
 
And now that's got me thinking that considering my laptop only has 3 GB of RAM that if and when I decide to install Sonar on it just for screwing around or tracking out of the house I should go for the 32 bit install. I just figured with a 64bit OS that it was better to have a 64bit DAW.
 
Which is another thing to consider for OP. I paid $300 for this crummy Acer laptop and it is more powerful than your system. If money is really tight you could snag a Best Buy tower special for around the same price and STILL have more power than you do now. Just swap out the drives for 7200RPM ones if they aren't already and you'll be golden.
#49
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:49:13 (permalink)
No instability issues at all. Most apps you run on Windows are 32 bit, even if your Windows is 64. Or used to be, it's slowly switching now. The exception is drivers, you always need the matching drivers.
#50
Sanderxpander
Max Output Level: -36.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3873
  • Joined: 2013/09/30 10:08:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:50:14 (permalink)
Geez you guys are fast, haha
#51
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:51:03 (permalink)
No Beep. In fact it provides a greater degree of protection because it will run in a 4 GB memory allocation that is protected. But one needs at least 8 GB. 
 

Best
John
#52
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:51:10 (permalink)
Sanderxpander
Geez you guys are fast, haha

64bit
#53
Soundblend
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 726
  • Joined: 2011/08/15 14:01:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 12:53:19 (permalink)
Beepster
1 : Oh and CRANK UP YOUR BUFFERS while mixing. As high as they'll go if need be. The more time you allow your system to process the effects the less likely it is you are going to have dropouts/crashes.
 
2: A good way to keep an eye on these things is to insert the Performance Module into the Control Bar (right click the Control Bar and select Performance Module until it appears). You see exactly how much CPU and Ram power is being used up by what. If it starts maxing out up your buffers and/or start freezing some tracks and/or archiving tracks you don't need for what you are doing.
 
 
3: When are tools are limited we use our minds to make those tools do what we need them to. Think back to the Beatles or any number of great old school bands who put out amazing productions with only a four track and some ingenuity at their disposal.
 


answers !

1 : Yes i always crank my buffers up while mixing, that's the way i do

2: Mhh cant quite agree on that one, if u need the real performance use  use CTRL / ALT / DEL
and bring up the resource monitor, that is far more reliable, cause the " monitor "
of the CPU / etc in Sonar hang's a bit after and can't be trusted ! just what i have noticed.

3: In those good old day's the pretty much make'd the music as you say with very few
tracks , and the music still sounds good.
today many of us use 10-50 tracks in the production, will that make any song better ? no i don't think so
we should try to go down to 4-8 tracks again and see what we can get out of that
like in the old days of recording.

How come that there's so many great songs, recorded with just few tracks.
Maybe today's producers is way to technical, and have " forgotten " how to make music
like from the 60's to the 80's !
 
#54
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 13:00:19 (permalink)
There were PLENTY of tracks on Sgt. Pepper. They just had to bounce stuff and be smart about it. Anyway... you've got plenty advice here that should get you going in many possible directions. All you gotta do is choose the path that suits you best. If it's simply going back to X1 then that's cool but I think you are missing out on a lot. If you think X3 is gonna be super awesome... well I wouldn't count on that unless you can get a more current/powerful system. It is very likely it will be more problematic than X2 so as I said... sink your money where it is needed and right now the consensus seems to be that you need better hardware.
 
Good luck.
#55
John
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 30467
  • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 13:04:59 (permalink)
"2: Mhh cant quite agree on that one, if u need the real performance use use CTRL / ALT / DEL
and bring up the resource monitor, that is far more reliable, cause the " monitor "
of the CPU / etc in Sonar hang's a bit after and can't be trusted ! just what i have noticed."
 
No not really the one in Sonar is for Sonar and is more accurate for Sonar. It measures buffers and how quickly the will empty. This is more useful for predicting drop outs.
 
The system monitor is an over view and can be totally inaccurate in predicting drop outs.   

Best
John
#56
scook
Forum Host
  • Total Posts : 24146
  • Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
  • Location: TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 13:05:10 (permalink)
IDK, X3 will probably run better but on the current HW/OS stills indicates running the 32bit version of X3.
#57
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 13:05:17 (permalink)
Oh and the thing is the Task Manager actually sucks up resources itself. It may be more accurate than the Sonar Performance Module but if you look at the processes you will see that Task Manager is indeed using extra resources. You don't need a hyper accurate readout. You just need to see if you are getting close to a max out as you add things. If you get even CLOSE to maxing anything it's time to start figuring out ways to free up resources.
 
 
 
#58
Soundblend
Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 726
  • Joined: 2011/08/15 14:01:14
  • Location: Norway
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 13:20:11 (permalink)
Anyway's when mixing ,you will start to hear if there's some " problems " building up.
Yes you have a point about the task manager using resources.
Thank's for good advice's / post's here, we all still have stuff to learn.

The most important thing is, do Sonar work as you want it ?
For me to answer that at present time, YES it does now.
#59
Beepster
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 18001
  • Joined: 2012/05/11 19:11:24
  • Status: offline
Re: Downgrading from X2a to X1d 2013/10/08 13:32:58 (permalink)
X2 has very rarely crashed on me and when it has I was able to reopen Sonar almost immediately. X1 crashed more and took longer to recover. X2 however does more weird stuff in general than X1 while I work.
 
So take that as you will but it's probably moot as my system is very different than yours so it's not really a fair comparison. My problems are truly issues with the program and/or OS/system config. Not hardware limitations.
#60
Page: < 123 > Showing page 2 of 3
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1