Keni
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Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
Is there a reason for this or should I bug this up?
When I insert a drum map for Addictive Drums, Track Solo doesn't select the corresponding MIDI/Audio it should.
for example...
If I solo the kick output track, the MIDI track does not also get selected hence I don't hear the soloed track until I manually add the midi track to the solo selection...
...and in the other direction...
If I click on the midi track feeding Addictive Drums, it doesn't select all the outputs along with it. Only the midi track is selected...
This can't be right?
I'm of to report this one for sure...
Keni
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2013/11/07 03:52:44
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This is a known bug and has persisted for many versions of Sonar.
Any time a drum map is inserted, the link between the synth mdi & audio tracks is broken.
The only real workaround is to put all associated tracks into a folder and use the folders own Mute & Solo buttons.
Soloing the folder means you can now use the individual kit pieces Solo & Mute buttons in the drum map prv
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Keni
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2013/11/07 12:08:31
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Thanks Jonesey...
I had a feeling something of that order existed... Drum Maps are/were a great invention, but not a show stopper if they had bugs...
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about using folders as a work around...? If I place the entire synth (midi and audio) into a folder, will it then allow me to (for example) solo the kick track with a single click?
Keni
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Splat 
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/17 20:56:46
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/17 23:58:10
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I've logged CWBRN-24182 anyway.
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icontakt
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 00:32:30
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There's a great feature called Solo Override (check the manual) but it gets disabled if you click the global solo button in the Control Bar to unsolo all soloed tracks so it's not really usable. There's also a great feature to group solo buttons but the feature doesn't work properly in the PRV Track List Pane.
(Yes, I've submitted a FR and a bug report about these)
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 16:50:55
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> I've logged CWBRN-24182 anyway. Seriously trying to get my head around this... I can understand what is being said here... Cakewalk Problem Reporter
Hello Alex,
As the track routing through the Drum Map can be routed to any number of synths/synth audio outputs from there, it does not solo in the same manner as a conventional MIDI track going directly to a soft synth. Therefore your problem report status is being changed to Feature Request to allow MIDI tracks assigned to a Drum Map to intelligently solo with its various output options.
Best Regards,
However let's put it this way, if they are designed not to work I would expect the SOLO buttons to be disabled and/or not visible... not clickable. What bit of the SOLO buttons not working right now is part of the current design? What are these dummy SOLO buttons that look like they are supposed to work (the UI is functional) supposed to do? And why do the mute buttons work and the SOLO buttons not work? Would anybody from Cake care to expand on this specific points? I'm happy to listen.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2014/02/18 16:58:41
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 17:16:43
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CakeAlexS
> I've logged CWBRN-24182 anyway.
Seriously trying to get my head around this...
I can understand what is being said here...
Cakewalk Problem Reporter
Hello Alex,
As the track routing through the Drum Map can be routed to any number of synths/synth audio outputs from there, it does not solo in the same manner as a conventional MIDI track going directly to a soft synth. Therefore your problem report status is being changed to Feature Request to allow MIDI tracks assigned to a Drum Map to intelligently solo with its various output options.
Best Regards,
However let's put it this way, if they are designed not to work I would expect the SOLO buttons to be disabled and/or not visible... not clickable. What bit of the SOLO buttons not working right now is part of the current design? What are these dummy SOLO buttons that look like they are supposed to work (the UI is functional) supposed to do? And why do the mute buttons work and the SOLO buttons not work?
Would anybody from Cake care to expand on this specific points? I'm happy to listen.
So it will be added to the 12 or 14 reports we submitted back in 2012 before X3 was (probably) even in the works.
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 17:17:55
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This has been my biggest pet peeve about drum maps like since forever. They are are rendered useless for my workflow.
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 17:20:18
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☄ Helpfulby bapu 2014/02/18 17:23:50
Let me be clear here, apparently this is not a bug, this is a feature request to get SOLO's in drum maps working? Although mute buttons work and there are nice dummy green SOLO buttons you can press which do nothing except silence your channels for fun.... (by design).
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 17:25:22
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I call it a design flaw.
(see what I did there?)
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 22:50:07
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It's a bug... and for some reason it takes a feature request to fix it....
If it was a feature request then a useless SOLO button wouldn't be around for the user to press, leaving the user scratching his head wondering what the heck is going on... and there's no third party code involved either to point to.
If anybody can see any flaw in my logic here please do speak up I won't bite.
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icontakt
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/18 23:43:53
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Could someone please post easy steps to reproduce the issue maybe using TTS-1 or Studio Instruments? If you're talking about the MIDI and audio tracks not getting automatically soloed when you solo the drum map track, I think it's a design flaw and not a bug (because the Solo button on the drum map track does solo the track).
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 00:23:07
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If a design flaw how come the mute buttons work? Are mute buttons designed differently to solo buttons when it comes to signal path or is there some sort of quantum black hole between each button? :)
Anyway gonna think of way of demoing this properly over the next few weeks...
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icontakt
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 00:40:26
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Because, even if what comes next isn't muted, if you mute what comes first then you won't hear it. But if what comes next isn't soloed, you won't hear it even if you solo what comes first. That's my logic. Maybe. 
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brundlefly
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 02:57:41
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☼ Best Answerby Seth Kellogg [Cakewalk] 2014/02/19 12:11:18
CakeAlexS
If a design flaw how come the mute buttons work? Are mute buttons designed differently to solo buttons when it comes to signal path or is there some sort of quantum black hole between each button? :)
Anyway gonna think of way of demoing this properly over the next few weeks...
There's no need to demo anything. The limitation is well understood, and I'm sure the Bakers will get around to adding the capability to intelligently solo soft synth output tracks on the other side of a drum map eventually. To hear a MIDI driven synth, it has always been necessary to solo both the MIDI track driving it and the audio track echoing the output. With hardware synths, it's still necessary to do that manually or by deliberately grouping the buttons or using Solo Override to keep audio outputs soloed. With soft synths, SONAR added the convenience of linking the solo buttons for you. But drum maps pre-date soft synths; in fact, they pre-date support for audio; they're just MIDI translators. So when you assign the output of the MIDI track to a drum map, SONAR currently has no way if determining what audio track(s) are on the other side of the synth(s) on the other side of the port(s) specified in the drum map or what you would or wouldn't want soloed when you solo the MIDI track. Adding that capability would require writing a significant amount of new code - i.e. adding a feature. And the solo buttons are working just l like they always have, limiting the output to tracks that are soloed. It just happens that it takes the output of two tracks for a soft synth to be heard. Mute isn't affected the same way, because it only takes one of the two tracks to be muted (or not soloed) to silence the synth. None of this is a bug in the conventional sense of a feature that is intended and advertised to work but does not. It's a non-existent feature.
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icontakt
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 03:18:53
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I wonder if Cubase has the same issue. It has a similar drum editor, doesn't it?
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 06:07:36
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I'm not sure... let me consult my workflow manual.... Solo buttons maps to D here I think... 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 10:06:26
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I get around the limitation simply by placing all of my drum audio/midi tracks into 1 folder.
Solo the FOLDER so that all the audio tracks + the midi track are solo'ed, then the drum map works as expected.
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 11:55:26
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Bristol_Jonesey
I get around the limitation simply by placing all of my drum audio/midi tracks into 1 folder.
Solo the FOLDER so that all the audio tracks + the midi track are solo'ed, then the drum map works as expected.
So you split a typical MIDI drum track into kit pieces and then have a folder for the kick MIDI and kick audio and so on for each kit piece?
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SuperG
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 12:05:46
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I stick to a folder for all the drum midi, and one for the drum audio.
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 12:10:02
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Does this workaround work in console view?
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 12:12:56
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Bristol_Jonesey
I get around the limitation simply by placing all of my drum audio/midi tracks into 1 folder.
Solo the FOLDER so that all the audio tracks + the midi track are solo'ed, then the drum map works as expected.
SuperG
I stick to a folder for all the drum midi, and one for the drum audio.
Can both of you please post a pic of what you are describing? I think I understand but as they say; a pic is worth a thousand hours of struggling
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 15:39:51
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bapu
Bristol_Jonesey
I get around the limitation simply by placing all of my drum audio/midi tracks into 1 folder.
Solo the FOLDER so that all the audio tracks + the midi track are solo'ed, then the drum map works as expected.
So you split a typical MIDI drum track into kit pieces and then have a folder for the kick MIDI and kick audio and so on for each kit piece?
Nah. I have one Midi track and as many audio tracks as I have kit pieces. All of these go into one "drums" folder and I use the folder Solo when I'm in drum edit mode.
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 15:48:08
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Bristol_Jonesey
bapu
Bristol_Jonesey
I get around the limitation simply by placing all of my drum audio/midi tracks into 1 folder.
Solo the FOLDER so that all the audio tracks + the midi track are solo'ed, then the drum map works as expected.
So you split a typical MIDI drum track into kit pieces and then have a folder for the kick MIDI and kick audio and so on for each kit piece?
Nah.
I have one Midi track and as many audio tracks as I have kit pieces.
All of these go into one "drums" folder and I use the folder Solo when I'm in drum edit mode.
So you essentially do what the add synth and create all outputs options does. Like THIS VIDEO shows?
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 15:49:25
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Solo the Folder here, and then all your solos in your drum map will work 
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bapu
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 15:52:23
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Ah, still a two step process to just solo (say) the kick while the track is playing?
Step 1. Click Folder Solo Button (nothing solo'd?)
Step 2. Click Kick solo
If that is correct then it essentially the same as the video I linked to above.
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brundlefly
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 16:43:55
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Enabling Solo Override (Shift+Solo) on all the audio tracks associated with the drum synth will let you solo all drums by soloing the MIDI track or solo individual parts in lanes or by the buttons in the drum pane. MIDI soloing is a little slow-reacting due to the way it's buffered, but I find this to be the most convenient solution.
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Splat
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 17:59:56
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> Solo the Folder here, and then all your solos in your drum map will work
But not the console or anywhere else in the UI it seems...
So changing the signal flow by putting tracks in folders workaround must be part of er the current design.
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SuperG
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Re: Drum Map Affecting Track Solo?
2014/02/19 18:27:47
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Hmm, to be honest...
I'm not fond of having multiple midi tracks for drums. I prefer to see all the percussion on one (PRV) page. A relational view seems to work better.
A lot of the files I run across (usually internet sourced) with drums like these seem to done on workstation keyboards - I'm not sure why though...
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