yorolpal
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 18:35:33
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That's the key fellers. Just try as many as you can and use the one (or ones) YOU like the best. And DONT disparage others for preferring something different. Simplz. PS:#mixmkr...if you was jawin at me and tryin yor dead level best to speak "colloquial hillbilly" you need some serious remediation. That there's a word I just learned, pardon me while I use it.
post edited by yorolpal - 2014/03/22 18:36:44
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cclarry
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 19:00:22
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Mod Bod
Cclarry, take the Hateraide from your lips and pour it down the sink, Bro.
Eight years and they released Superior 2, EZkeys and 4 libraries, EZmix and two dozen preset packs, 28 (or so) drum libraries, EZplayer, Beatstation, Drumtracker (OK, that one didn't seem to pan out so well) and a bunch of midi libraries as well - not to mention being the first 64 bit drum samplers to hit the market.
Dude, do you have an inkling of how much work is involved in these products?
Development cycle is based on a SINGLE product. Not on whether or not you produced\ 10,000 other products Mod... I'm not against the product...I just feel that they let this go way to long... I know as a beta tester Mod you've got a stake here...so I get it... But SERIOUSLY - no developer should take EIGHT YEARS to get a version increase on a SINGLE PRODUCT. THAT'S RIDICULOUS!!! I get that everyone likes the EZ part...the less I have to know the better is the motto... But I seriously can't understand the hoopla...when it should be a lackluster...oh well...another $100 out the window....when I already have 46 drum Samplers that I'm too G - D lazy to learn... I'ts G A S...plain and simple... Dude, do you have an inkling of how much work is involved in these products?
Why yes, as a matter of fact, I do....and it's far harder to rewrite an ENTIRE DAW in less then a year then to rework a drum program!!! And yet Noel seems to get the job done...every year... Seriously? Mod ...don't EVEN go there.....just DON'T... As a Database programmer and beta tester for Windows since Win 3.1....SERIOUSLY? There is no hatred here boys...JUST PLAIN FACTS... Go buy it...spend you money...I'm just expressing my opinion of a rather LACKLUSTER development cycle....VERY LACKLUSTER...as is SepticTank... EZ 2 is merely EZkeys for Drums...with some other improvements... I'm NOT against it FOR GOD'S SAKE...I'm saying...WHY BUY OUT OF THE GATE when it will be $49 (or less) in a month or two? I guess everyone has money to burn... DER!!!
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cclarry
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 19:15:38
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btw...I also stated my disdain for the fact that Superior is now 6 years out since V2...
and the fact that Addictive Drums is running a close second...at not keeping up with upgrades
...in a separate thread a while ago...
So it's nothing personal against any product or person...it's about getting the job done...
in a reasonable amount of time...
It seems that it's ok to be angry about a company leaving a product hanging (i.e..SepticTank) and not continue development on it for 8 years...BUT...if you use the product alot (EZDrummer) then that 8 years is ok...???
Sorry for the cynicism....but I have to call a spade a spade...that's just who I am...
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michaelhanson
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 19:42:09
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I don't think I would call my interest in EZD2 GAS. I really am pretty content with the plugs that I have and am not anxious to buy any more. Purchases this year are going to be because it's something that I just really like. I am excited about EZD2 because it is a product that I really like. I don't find it strange at all that I would want to buy a product I really like. That doesn't mean that I am going to pick it up the day it's released. I will buy it when my finances dictate that I can. Dave, keep up the good work Bro. Nothing wrong with being a beta tester for a product you really like either.
post edited by MakeShift - 2014/03/22 21:04:01
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mixmkr
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 20:46:23
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yorolpal
PS:#mixmkr...if you was jawin at me and tryin yor dead level best to speak "colloquial hillbilly" you need some serious remediation. That there's a word I just learned, pardon me while I use it.
Yeah...I've only lived in KY for the last 20 years of my 60...growing up in StL, Chicago and Boston didn't help with the "Travis" accent. Actually $99 aint much even if it is catagorized as gas. How much does a round of golf cost nowadays? I see nothing wrong buying products, even used infrequently, because it's something you like and hopefully can afford and purchase wisely (ie...watch dem credit limits boyz..). I'm sure golf addicts have more than one putter that NEVER get used. Dang...I just bought a Symetrix 501 limiter, because I "accidentally" won the Ebay auction in the last seconds. That's old hardware folks and aint even an Eventide or the likes.
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yorolpal
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 21:57:51
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You got that right, ol pal:-)
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clintmartin
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 22:51:10
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cclarry
clintmartin
Well I can see where having both would be best. (Thanks for the info) I will upgrade to EZD2, but I will be surprised if the added features and work flow are not added to SD3 at some point in the near future. It just doesn't make sense to allow yourself to get to far behind, when people will gladly pay for you to keep up.
I have to say...this is on par (almost) with SepticTank..and everyone is oo-ing and ah-ing...AGAIN.
8 years for a version update is ludicrous...
It's a great product, I've had it since the beginning, and at least it was somewhat updated...1.33 currently...
that's not a FAR leap in 8 years, it didn't even make it to 1.5, but at least they went 64 bit a while ago...and they didn't skimp on the on add packs...but, then again, so was ST...at least Toontrack didn't make empty promises...
But I guess that's what GAS does...people don't seem to care about how companies treat them...
or what the company does...all they seem to care about is GAS and what they can spend their next
dollar on...sorry to be the cynic here...but someone has to see the forest for the trees...
Such is life!
We agree most of the time, but not here. This isn't gas. I know it well and do suffer from it often, but EZD2 looks like a major change for the better in the way I work, and the way my brain works when dealing with drums. I also got used to using EZD1 within Sonar to a point that I preferred it to Addictive Drums. So this is really a no-brainer for me. I can see where some people may want to take the completed midi and use Superior or BFD2 if that's their preferred drum sampler, but I don't have either of those and really just want to get on with it.
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jmasno5
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/22 23:44:55
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Mod Bod
It goes a bit further than that but I can't go into features that aren't public knowledge yet.
It is now public knowledge! Go to http://youtu.be/AArgiZAC3IM It's everything you want to know about EZ Drummer 2. From what I see Superior is still superior for me because of the replacements, layering and bleed control even if you only use EZX's in it. HOWEVER... The new midi pattern builder (for song writing) is going to be great. I will upgrade for that feature alone. Nothing is worse than going through thousands of midi patterns and hoping you fine the pattern you are looking for. This might be the silver bullet I've been looking for. $149.99 / Upgrade $89.99
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 04:36:15
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At the back of my mind is will the new features be included in Superior Drummer and when will we see Superior Drummer 3? I don't think $99 is unreasonable for the upgrade but I would not want to find Superior 3 is announced a few months later with the new MIDI features.
I like the new MIDI features but would still want to use either Superior or BFD3 in the end.
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cclarry
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 08:12:10
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Ok...here's what I'm saying...
If you will fork over $100 to be one of the first to have it...then it's GAS...
I know many really use the program...but you've been getting the job done
without it for 8 years...so, if you HAVE to buy it when it is first launched...
then it's GAS...because you most certain COULD wait for a sale and get
it for a lot less, rather then pay full price...and use the price difference for
something else...
What REALLY surprises me is they are not even offering an INTRO price...
Many feel the EXACT same way about SepticTank...they CAN'T WAIT TO GET IT,
even though it's not really NECESSARY...and has been almost 10 years in the making..
THAT is GAS...plain and simple...
I'm not saying DON'T BUY IT...I'm saying that it's HIGH time we started using a little
MORE common sense in these matters...that's all. But, as I said, if you've got the money
to throw away...then by all means do so...
THAT is all I'm saying about this...
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jatoth
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 10:05:48
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I just don't get the concept of purchasing a tool, any tool, with the expectation that the tool maker will continuously keep charging me to "improve" the tool! Only software companies breed this mentality. Product "development cycle" is a marketing term not a programming concept. As in, "What can we add to the software, incrementally, to keep the users forking over more cash, so that marketing and upper management can keep their jobs."
Has EZD done exactly what TT said it would when you purchased it? Did it meet YOUR expectations and justify the price you paid for it? Does it STILL do the job for which it was purchased? Then shut up about not having any major updates in 8 years. IT STILL WORKS.
IMHO CW could have postponed the entire "X" series until it was REALLY finished baking. There really was no reason for X1,X2,and X3. Management knew all along where X was going years in advance and decided to piece it out to us incrementally. The ONLY reason for this is "mo money, mo money, mo money". This idea of adding a couple of "new" features, bundle a few more "goodies", introduce some new bugs, and whack our users each year just stinks. I personally would love for my software to just work. I would then wait years for the next paradigm shift.
Just my $.02.
P.S. I will be upgrading to EZD2. I love working with EZD1, and think the new features are worth the price. Kudo's Toontrack for not falling into the Microsoft, Intuit, Cakewalk upgrade forever cycle.
John X3e Producer, Sonar Platinum, Sweetwater CreationStation i5 3.1gHz, 12 GB RAM, 500GB SSD OS drive, 1TB SSD audio drive, 1TB archive/misc drive, dual 22" monitors, Windows 7x64, SaffirePro40 (firewire), MOTU MIDI Express XT, Behringer BCF2000, dbx 586, Samson Servo 120a, Yamaha HS80M, Auratone 5c Cubes, Sennheiser HD650, Sony MDR 7509HD, Sony MDR 7506, Kurzweil K2500XS, Roland XP-30, Proteus 2000.
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yorolpal
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 11:33:40
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Not sure I follow your logic there Larry. As with ST3 you rail against the length of time between updates...which would seem to imply that if the updates had been sooner and more regular you would've availed yourself of them. But then you say that to avail ones self of them when they finally do come out is a hasty, rash decision solely based on GAS. How does that cake taste anyways:-)
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jmasno5
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 11:34:09
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I've gotten burned on sales. I bought Waves REDD for 149. (I'm a Beatles freak and Waves has my number). Six months later it was on sale for 89. I bought Slate's VCC 149, now it is 99. I admit that I didn't need those products at the time. But here's the thing. I have limited time in the studio due to work and family. I get a few hours a week. If you came to my door and said, "John, I can build you a grove search tool so you can build drum tracks in less than half the time," I would gladly pay you $89. just for that alone. That is how important it is to me. Not because it is the latest thing. I'm am sure there are other Sonarians in the same boat. Also, EZ Drummer held it's price for years before I saw it less than 149. Last year, after being out for 7 years, it was as low as 29. My gut feeling is you will be waiting a while for a real good sale price. But, maybe Toontrack will offer owners of EZD 1 a one time intro price.
post edited by jmasno5 - 2014/03/23 11:36:12
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paulo
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 11:51:53
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I see no logic in the expectation that having bought a product that works as advertised that the company in question is then obliged to provide a new version within a certain amount of time. If it's broken in some way, then yeah it should be fixed quickly, but if it works you have what you paid for, so where is the problem ? I can imagine the same people would also be moaning that a new version was out when the old one had only been out 5 minutes and calling people fools for falling for the cynical marketing.
On the other hand, some software companies close to our hearts rugularly bring out new versions without properly fixing the old one at which point the old one is just abandoned (sounds like "eggs too") and ask you to pay again for something which still has some of those same faults. I know which I prefer.
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yorolpal
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 12:20:24
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For me personally my gripe about ST3 is not so much that they haven't continuously improved it via updates over lo these many years...it's that they continually and on a regular basis said they would...and then didn't. I'm not mad at them at all. They just lost all credibility with me. Toontrack, on the other hand has continued to release new and improved content as well as bug fixes on an ongoing basis. And every new product or update has been delivered on the date promised.
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clintmartin
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 15:45:06
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I'm hanging on to an Audiodeluxe coupon for $10 and I'm expecting the actual sale price to be $79 to $89. cclarry is right that it will be cheaper someday. I paid $149 for X3 and could get it for $99 now. Everything by IK needs to be half off before I'll even look at it, but EZD2 is going to save me several hours with every song...that's big. I've got a job and family and spend about 10 hours a week on this stuff.
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bapu
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 16:37:25
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clintmartin
I'm hanging on to an Audiodeluxe coupon for $10 and I'm expecting the actual sale price to be $79 to $89.
+1 ya me two
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twaddle
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 18:06:38
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bapu
{tongueInCheek}
According to twaddle there is no point in any other drompler. BFD/ECO/3 does it all.
{/tongueInCheek}
I just could not wrap my head around BFD2 or Eco (own them both) to make them my go to drompler. AD is fairly easy to and I've owned it for several years now. I wish I could really get into Jamstix3 since I own that too. I like Slate's sounds as well as all my NI Abbey Road kits (own them all)......
But again, as a hobbyist I find EZDrummer my go to while constructing a song and now EZD2 looks to be a step up for my purposes.
Like Dave says, after all is said and done I can always route the MIDI in SD2 (and one day SD3 I'll presume) when I want more control.
All in all I have used all my dropmlers in songs except Eco and Jamstix(2 or 3).
Hmm, I wouldn't go quite that far but I will argue till the cows come home that for less money BFD Eco is almost as easy to use, far more flexible and sounds a whole lot better than EZdrummer but that's just my opinion according to my ears and my experience. I used to think BFD2 was better than superior drummer and still do but BFD3 has raised the bar by quite some way I think. I just could not wrap my head around BFD2 or Eco You mean you found it hard to learn ? I can't wrap my head around that, particularly Eco, it is extremely easy to learn and BFD2 is certainly no harder to learn than superior drummer. I do sometimes think that the less inclined you are to learn how to mix drums and create different sounds for your self then the more you are forced into buying more and more expansion kits just because you haven't got the time or inclination to learn how to do it your self when it really isn't that hard. Most recording studios I've been in don't have more than 4 or 5 kits, but what they do have is engineers who know how shape those kits and get the sound you're looking for (in theory) and so if you know what you're doing you really shouldn't need so many expansion kits and different drums. I have slate, EZdrummer and Addictive drums as well as some Battery and kontakt kits and if I wanted to I could waste days trying them all out to see which one works within my songs but I have way more than I need with BFD3 and all my expansion kits and so now that's all I ever use and if I can't get the sound I want the problem is more down to me and not that I'm in need of another expansion kit. Like a lot of EZdrummer fans who've posted on here I too am a singer song/writer guitarist but it's really a hobby and so I don't feel need to get something down quickly and I never use midi loops. In the last few years the most valuable and indispensable tool in my "creative process" that gets my ideas down quickly before I forget them has been the voice recorder on my mobile phone as I sleep with my guitar by my bed and often get ideas for songs around bed time.  Still whatever floats your boat. Steve
soundcloud SoundClick Myspace Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7 930, 3.40Ghz, 12GB Corsair DDR3 1TB WD SATA 6Gb X 2 Emu- 0404 PCIe Sonar X1d Expanded BFD3 + BFD2 + BFD Eco Dual boot windows 7, 32 & 64bit
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Dave Modisette
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 18:18:38
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I'd like to remind (or inform) everyone that I was a customer before I was a betatester. EZdrummer was the program that I wished FXpansion would have developed. But they were into the Cadillac class drum sampler and I only wanted to pay for a Chevy at the time. So when EZdrummer dropped into the market, I paid street price at (IIRC) Florida Music Co. and I think that was about $150.00. It was almost a dream come true.
But unfortunately, when the grooves were dragged into SONAR the naming convention of the grooves was lost because of how TT placed that information into their grooves which (once again IIRC) were midi type 0 and Cakewalk was based on midi Type 1. So I discovered what you had to do to get the format into a Midi type 1 format and that involved manually importing every groove into SONAR and then exporting it back into a very obtuse form of folder hierarchy that TT was using. I hooked up with a programmer in on of their forums and he wrote a little program that would convert all of the Midi 0 files into Midi 1 and put the groove name where SONAR wanted to find it and then place it back into the Toontrack folder without EZdrummer being the wiser about it.
In the meantime, I also discovered, living in the very lowest keyboard keys, something curious. The high hats were affected by my modulation wheel. I could get the high hat to open on any given closed high hat but as soon as I stopped modifying the high hat values, the high hat would close. I posted questions about this curiosity in the TT forums.
Eventually, I got a message through back channels that this was because of something that hadn't been roped off and was not an intended feature so they (the staff) didn't speak of it publicly because EZdrummer was not intended or advertised as a live play VST instrument. They told me which lower keys would act as I wanted so that I could achieve a varying sloppy hihat with my mod wheel.
And that's when I put two and two together and realized that the same engine driving EZdrummer was the same engine driving Superior.
Not long after that, I received an email and a midnight visit from a van full of Viking descendants where they threw a blanket over me, hog tied me, tossed me into a VW Microbus and carried me out into the wilderness where they forced me to drink strong ale, sing songs of Valhalla and beat on all manner of strange animal skin drums. They made me swear to never speak of hidden secrets that I discovered again and I would be told of wondrous things that the future held. That is, if I kept my big mouth shut in their forum. Hehe.
The cool thing was I was at the time the first betatester that they had using SONAR. Evidently, they couldn't imagine anyone not wanting to use Cubase or Logic. And because of my allegiances with other mystical groups (that I cannot speak of) in the past, I was able to stave off various niggles between the two products.
And now you know...
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michaelhanson
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 19:39:36
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......the rest of the story. Good day!
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mixmkr
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 19:50:04
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so... are you saying you are glad you were hog-tied? Is this a musician thing?
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mixmkr
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 19:51:05
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hows that new computer and UA interface treating you nowadays, btw?
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Dave Modisette
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/23 21:04:27
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The new computer is sweet but installing all of this software is tedious. I've just about got 'er done. Right now, I'm opening old projects and finding out which odd VST plugin still hasn't been installed and determining whether it's worth the trouble.
I still haven't installed Reaper. I don't have any active projects on it and I don't suspect I'll be doing one any time soon.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 01:03:01
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jmasno5
I get a few hours a week. If you came to my door and said, "John, I can build you a grove search tool so you can build drum tracks in less than half the time," I would gladly pay you $89. just for that alone. That is how important it is to me. Not because it is the latest thing.
I think that's the point. Either for hobbyist with limited time or someone using the software to make a living time is valuable. I am a hobbiest and fortunate enough to have a reasonable disposable income, what I lack is time.
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twaddle
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 07:27:47
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Glyn Barnes
jmasno5
I get a few hours a week. If you came to my door and said, "John, I can build you a grove search tool so you can build drum tracks in less than half the time," I would gladly pay you $89. just for that alone. That is how important it is to me. Not because it is the latest thing.
I think that's the point. Either for hobbyist with limited time or someone using the software to make a living time is valuable. I am a hobbiest and fortunate enough to have a reasonable disposable income, what I lack is time.
I don't quite see how time would be of any great importance for a hobbiest ? Yes I know if you're in full time employment, have children (or other distractions  ) then obviously you don't have the time to spare but you're under no pressure to get projects finished and so in reality you have all the time you need. Steve
soundcloud SoundClick Myspace Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R, Intel i7 930, 3.40Ghz, 12GB Corsair DDR3 1TB WD SATA 6Gb X 2 Emu- 0404 PCIe Sonar X1d Expanded BFD3 + BFD2 + BFD Eco Dual boot windows 7, 32 & 64bit
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twaddle
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 07:27:50
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Sorry, pressed the submit button twice.
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sven450
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 07:54:13
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twaddle
Glyn Barnes
jmasno5
I get a few hours a week. If you came to my door and said, "John, I can build you a grove search tool so you can build drum tracks in less than half the time," I would gladly pay you $89. just for that alone. That is how important it is to me. Not because it is the latest thing.
I think that's the point. Either for hobbyist with limited time or someone using the software to make a living time is valuable. I am a hobbiest and fortunate enough to have a reasonable disposable income, what I lack is time.
I don't quite see how time would be of any great importance for a hobbiest ?
Yes I know if you're in full time employment, have children (or other distractions ) then obviously you don't have the time to spare but you're under no pressure to get projects finished and so in reality you have all the time you need.
Steve
As a hobbiest, I have to say that "having all the time we need" is about as far from the truth as you can get. Its really a pretty ridiculous statement.... Just because we don't have clients hovering over our shoulders does not mean we don't want to work, and complete projects, and make music. Having children and lives makes every minute at the guitar and at the DAW that much more valuable. Every moment I spend working on music is basically borrowed time. If using EZ 2 can get me a drum track in 1/2 the time than AD, then it is easily worth a measly $99.
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twaddle
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 07:58:42
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sven450
twaddle
Glyn Barnes
jmasno5
I get a few hours a week. If you came to my door and said, "John, I can build you a grove search tool so you can build drum tracks in less than half the time," I would gladly pay you $89. just for that alone. That is how important it is to me. Not because it is the latest thing.
I think that's the point. Either for hobbyist with limited time or someone using the software to make a living time is valuable. I am a hobbiest and fortunate enough to have a reasonable disposable income, what I lack is time.
I don't quite see how time would be of any great importance for a hobbiest ?
Yes I know if you're in full time employment, have children (or other distractions ) then obviously you don't have the time to spare but you're under no pressure to get projects finished and so in reality you have all the time you need.
Steve
As a hobbiest, I have to say that "having all the time we need" is about as far from the truth as you can get. Its really a pretty ridiculous statement.... Just because we don't have clients hovering over our shoulders does not mean we don't want to work, and complete projects, and make music. Having children and lives makes every minute at the guitar and at the DAW that much more valuable. Every moment I spend working on music is basically borrowed time. If using EZ 2 can get me a drum track in 1/2 the time than AD, then it is easily worth a measly $99.
Of course you have all the time you need and it's equally ridiculous to say you don't, the fact is you do. You might want to get it finished and that's fine but don't say I'm being ridiculous because the fact is you are only under the pressure you put your self under and that down to you. What's the hurry ? Steve
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sven450
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 08:24:33
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Twaddle: Thank god! You've told me I have all the time I need to also make music, so I'm fine! Thank you! I feel a new hope! I won't be bothering with EZ2 anymore. I've decided with all the extra time you've decided I have I'm just going to learn how to play drums.
I'm off the the DW factory to buy a custom kit with all my made up money, too!
But seriously, its not a "hurry", but you must know that time is precious to all of us. I'm driven to make music because I love it, and that entails getting it done when the moment strikes, somewhere between full time work and full time family. I find I have to work in 15 min. spurts sometimes. You must see how a time saving piece of software like EZ2 would benefit someone like me, right?
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twaddle
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Re: EZ DRUMMER 2
2014/03/24 08:42:46
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Of course I can see how saving time can be of benefit although I have my doubts as to it being half an hour as has been claimed in this thread.
But my point was that time can be crucial for those who are in the business whereas for hobbiests it isn't.
Even for people who are signed to record companies (and I know plenty) time is more important but a lot of the better companies care as much about artistic integrity than record sales so they don't put so much pressure on you.
But if you writing broadcast music for adverts and jingles than time is often critical but for the hobbiest it isn't the same and that was the point I was trying to make.
But I agree and feel I it myself that the less time spent doing the mundane things frees up more time for the fun stuff which has to be a good thing and I'm certainly not trying to suggest you shouldn't buy EZdrummer or anything else if it's what you think you need.
I on the other hand like to take my time and as someone who writes my own midi drums in the piano roll the slow way it's not of any great importance to me. I actually enjoy writing my own drum tracks for many reasons.
Steve
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