ORIGINAL: Monkey23

ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

I guess what I was saying is that maybe the issue of why you would need to carry a gun (to work and church) should be the question on everybody's minds.

I'm sure you read the other posts here.... so basically.... for self defense and protection of my family. No place is safe today........from the schools where our children go to learn, to the stores we shop in and the resturants we eat at and even now.... the churches where we go to worship. You never know where the next "crazy" might pop up..... so I stand prepared, and pray that he never pops up near me....because I will defend my life and my family.

Sorry, Guitarhacker. When I said "you" I meant "you" in the general sense, not you personally. I understand your position. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I'm not sure I disagree with it either.

I can't help worry though that if everyone walking around with guns "just in case" or "to protect themselves" will lead to some sort of self fulfilling prophesy of unnecessary violence. Obviously I hope not, but it just seems odd to me.

That's the old "OK Corral" or "Dodge City" syndrome the Brady Campaign and other gun banners (the Clintons, Nancy Pelosi, the Obamassiah and others) worry about but has NEVER happened where CCW laws exist or have been loosened from not being able to carry. I'm talking about legally carrying members of the public, not gang-bangers and criminals.

ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

A strange thing happened..... there were no gun fights on the streets by Law abiding citizens with CCW.... as a matter of FACT.... and quite a few studies were done on this issue by both sides.... the violent crime rate actually decreased by a big margin over time. When a criminal doesn't know if a potential victim is armed...they are more cautious. After all, a robbery could be a deadly situation for them if the victim is armed.

And the opposite is also a proven and known fact. Ban guns from local Law abiding Citizens, like they have done in Washington DC, NYC, San Fransisco, NJ, and other places..... and the violent crime goes up. These cities are some of the most dangerous places in America, because the criminals know that NOBODY has a weapon assembled and ready for use.

Interesting. How much training are new gun owners required to have - not only as far as actually using the gun - but also in terms of storing it away from children and learning the laws of gun ownership and usage?

Also, what happens if you were for example, to shoot a purse snatcher, and he was to die? Can you be held criminally responsible (provided of course that it is proven that the dead guy was in deed trying to steal your purse)?

Sorry for all the questions, Guitarhacker. These are open questions to anyone who might want to answer me. It's just out of curiosity. Our society here in Canada is set up the complete opposite in terms of this situation, and it seems to work for us (though obviously not perfectly) so it interests me to hear about your country's philosophy.

ORIGINAL: Monkey23


Interesting. How much training are new gun owners required to have - not only as far as actually using the gun - but also in terms of storing it away from children and learning the laws of gun ownership and usage?

Also, what happens if you were for example, to shoot a purse snatcher, and he was to die? Can you be held criminally responsible (provided of course that it is proven that the dead guy was in deed trying to steal your purse)?

Sorry for all the questions, Guitarhacker. These are open questions to anyone who might want to answer me. It's just out of curiosity. Our society here in Canada is set up the complete opposite in terms of this situation, and it seems to work for us (though obviously not perfectly) so it interests me to hear about your country's philosophy.

Michael, I'll try...
I've never attended a class to become licensed to carry a handgun. I can only answer about how things are where I live, Louisiana. For the most, guns are something one grows up with. How to be responsible is taught by dad or mom on hunting trips or evenings of target shooting. Not only shooting but cleaning, storing, sighting in, etc. And not one type of firearm. The lifestyle will include shotguns, rifles and handguns. It is taken very serious. And most carry a gun here...legally or not and mostly in their vehicle.
A friend's son went to Iraq and became the units sharpshooter and leader...no surprise to us. And those around him will feel a little better knowing he's with them.
Another complication with carrying a gun is crossing state lines. One needs to know the laws of the state their in or traveling thru. I do believe there is a law that permits one to carry (rightfully) for protection if they are more than 100 miles from home. I wouldn't bank on that alone. It still must be carried in the right (legal) way. Most state laws that I'm aware of the gun and ammo have to be stored seperately. (which may be seen as no good to you at all if needed)
I can see where there are parents or folks that only have a handgun for protection and may not know a thing about it. Very bad.
On question two..the same thing will happen that would happen for any criminal or hostile advance on another person, with or without a gun. You can/will be prosecuted. The court will determine what happened and what's going to happen.

Michael as with many things...the parents have a responsibility to raise their young ones right. If you're going to have weapons, learning properly is key and that applies to everybody. Unfortunately we know there can always be a loose screw.

Regards,
Michael

correction and spelling

ORIGINAL: Monkey23
Interesting. How much training are new gun owners required to have - not only as far as actually using the gun - but also in terms of storing it away from children and learning the laws of gun ownership and usage?

Also, what happens if you were for example, to shoot a purse snatcher, and he was to die? Can you be held criminally responsible (provided of course that it is proven that the dead guy was in deed trying to steal your purse)?

Sorry for all the questions, Guitarhacker. These are open questions to anyone who might want to answer me. It's just out of curiosity. Our society here in Canada is set up the complete opposite in terms of this situation, and it seems to work for us (though obviously not perfectly) so it interests me to hear about your country's philosophy.

Good questions. Jack's right, it really does depend on the locale.

Here in the rural upper midwest region, where I was born and raised, guns are not terribly controversial. They're a tool, like a hammer or saw. (And, yes, of course, people can use tools in the wrong way!)

Here in ND, you can get a CCW by passing a written exam, but there is no hands-on training required. For the most part, this isn't a problem because so many of us are hunters; you cannot get a hunting license without having successfully completed a hunter training course, which includes gun safety - not only use, but proper storage. Of course, this doesn't catch everyone, but it does cover a lot of people. The bottom line is, most of us are raised to use them properly and safely. It's not a "Wild West" environment where we'll shoot each other over a disagreement.

I am not supportive of irresponsible weapons ownership in any way. I also don't wish to deprive anyone of the ability to defend him or herself.

As a pastor in a small border town, I'm thankful that there are so many armed persons here, law enforcement and private citizens - there are some scary people that have slipped through into the US OR are trying to exit into Canada who are legitimately dangerous. My church's border ministry has on occasion brought me into contact with some very interesting invididuals. One was a parole jumper with a SWAT standoff in his past who was trying to slip out of the US.

Thankfully, we had help from the sheriff and the Border Patrol, so nothing came of it. He was arrested and extradited back to the state he'd fled from. But... though I am a peace-lover, and will go to great lengths to be peaceful, had that guy assaulted me or someone incapable of effectively defending him/herself, I would have done what was necessary to protect life and limb. I have a wife and small children, and they depend on me for a safe home.

My thoughts for a Thursday morning. Thanks, all, for a good conversation that has been spirited but not ugly.

Russ





In the city, much of the timd

ORIGINAL: Monkey23

ORIGINAL: Guitarhacker

Our local Walmart has a rent-a-cop that drives around the lot with flashin lights due to the robberies, rapes, kidnappings, and shootouts in their parking lot.

Needless to say, I don't go anywhere with my 9mm. I carry it to church, to work, and to all other places that don't prohibit me from exercising my 2nd amendment right. If they have a "No CCW" sign, I don't do business with them. In NC, there is currently legislation to allow CCW in resturants that serve adult beverages with the meals. I'll be glad when it passes.

Crime and gangs are out of control in the USA..... small towns are not immune, living in the country is not safe anymore..... protect your self..... just ask yourself this question:

Would you rather have a gun and not need it...or need it and not have it?


MOST DANGEROUS PLACE TO BE: in a "gun free zone"... think about it.

Uh.. Where the hell do you live where you need guns at church, and a cop at Wall-mart to prevent rapes and kidnappings?!

I'm not trying to stand on my high horse here, because there is violence everywhere, but this is excessive and by no means normal. This thread should not debate guns vs no guns, but maybe should discuss why your town (state? country?) is so dangerous that it would be deemed reasonable and necessary to bring your gun to work and church!

It sounds like pretty much any ole present day USSA city to me. I suppose there are much more civilized countries though. One that doesn't come to mind right now is jolly old England and it's protestors on the tube last night battling cops and tearing all creation up. It is illegal to own a gun there, right ?

Well that works good.

"it said that the city actually allowed these kids to congregate in the McDonald's parking lot."

The article said the property owner allowed the gathering.

There is a night club around the corner... I guess the 24 hour combination MacDs, convienience store, gas station, is the next stop after the club closes.

We have FAMU here in town... it's a historically black college... so we have a lot of young people who might appear to fit some arbitrary profile. They are young and they dress fashionably... they're kids. The night club is part of the FAMU scene... but it's got an *authentic* islands theme... which in Florida is code for "edgy".

It's my guess that the majority of that crowd were not trouble makers but rather young people here in town getting an education.

Sometimes the locals gang culture overlaps with the not so locals college culture.

The main point to consider is that very same location permits crowds many times as large to park and gather and do business during a FSU football game... I think it might be awkward and regrettable for them to start profiling crowds and denying access to some and not others.


best regards,
mike

edit spelling

I guess you don't like Tallahassee Nick?

Edgy is defined by the number of 911 calls I guess.

The Calypso club is edgy... in a *out there* Creole sort of way. :-)

I've ridden my bicycle in Harlem and Brooklyn Heights as a tourist many times. I've walked the sidewalks of Liberty City with a microphone in my hand... chatting it up with locals. I've driven a rental car in to Watts to see the Towers.

You can find edgy anywhere.

It seems like you are drawing some sort of arbitrary conclusion. Less likely to have a shooting in Hialeah than Tallahassee??? You're just making that up. :=0

Do you ever get up much?

Are you just one of those frustrated UM music students?

What's yer beef?

ORIGINAL: Nick P

You know it's funny, the "greenies" who of course vote straight Democratic will be the first guys to scream bloody murder when their precious "shadow" music biz jobs (i.e. too scared to go for it as a musician so become a tech) are cut due to the Dems "spread the wealth" mentality. If you work for a company, you are a capitalist. It's so hypocritical to cruise a cushy job and **** about the capitalist Repubs who get rich off the small guys. How do you think the small guys get their jobs?

Did I miss something? What does this have to do with anything?

This thread is on a topic that normally results in a lot of petty fighting and mud slinging, and yet somehow has remained civil, so far. I personally would hope that it doesn't escalate.

ORIGINAL: mike_mccue

well, is that it? :-)

Yup, that's it. It was the avatar thing I think. But hey, don't go changin'

I'm ok John.... but thanks very much. I appreciate your thoughts.

It's my hope that Nick and I can grow through this... perhaps Nick can learn to dislike me in a more peaceful and graceful way?

I've been exercising restraint but it is tiring... I do not think Nick is unaware that he is acting violently... I think he fully intends to be hurtful... his statements do require energy to put out of mind.

Maybe the best way to help is to simply demonstrate that people can disagree peaceably.


Thanks again and best regards,
mike



edit for clarity