guitartrek
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Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
This has been an issue ever since track folders were introduced. If you have a track folder open, and try cloning the last track in the folder, the new track will become part of the Folder below. Now in 8.5.1 it seems worse. After cloning a track the new track wound up in a totally different spot. Anybody else notice this behavior?
post edited by guitartrek - November 23, 09 9:27 PM
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dontletmedrown
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 20, 09 8:02 PM
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sscannon
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 20, 09 8:04 PM
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guitartrek
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 20, 09 8:17 PM
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Ok - I just submitted a problem report.
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guitartrek
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 9:26 PM
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I've gotten a response from Cakewalk. Apparently, if you are cloning track 3 which is in folder A , and track 4 is in folder B, by default, the new track will inherit the folder of track 4 - not track 3. According to them this is by design. It is very strange, because I want to clone track 3 and it's properties. I don't want the new track to take one of track 4's properties (folder) and assign it to the new track.
Here is their response:
When cloning a track you are presented with a "Clone Track(s)" menu. The "Starting Track" in this menu will determine what folder the cloned track is placed in. In other words, if Track 2 of your project was in Folder 1, then setting the Starting Track to "2" would place the new track in Folder 1.
I find it hard to beleive anyone would want to use Cloning the way it is "designed". I think this is crazy, but maybe I'm not seeing something obvious.
Please let me know if you agree or disagree with their design.
Thanks for your help.
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dontletmedrown
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 10:31 PM
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I'm with you guitartrek. If I clone a track that's in a folder, I'd expect the cloned track should stay in the same folder as the original.
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Dizzi45Z
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 10:35 PM
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+1 This has always bugged me. I have always wanted it to be the way that guitartrek stated.
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bvideo
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 10:42 PM
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I find it hard to beleive anyone would want to use Cloning the way it is "designed". I think this is crazy, but maybe I'm not seeing something obvious
On the other hand, if someone wanted the cloned track to go a different folder, there would have to be some different way to specify it. Seems like the starting track is the way to choose the folder it goes into. For your purpose, choosing the starting track number equal to the track number you are cloning would put your cloned track into the same folder as the original track. The downside is that the cloned track will wind up higher than the original track. Bill B
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BluesMeister
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 11:38 PM
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bvideo
For your purpose, choosing the starting track number equal to the track number you are cloning would put your cloned track into the same folder as the original track. The downside is that the cloned track will wind up higher than the original track.
Bill, that's an elegant solution and one I could have done with knowing when I first started working with S5. I assume it would be quite easy in S8.5 to drag the original track back to its rightful place ahead of the cloned track.
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guitartrek
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 11:56 PM
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I assume it would be quite easy in S8.5 to drag the original track back to its rightful place ahead of the cloned track.
That's my workaround. If the new track lands in the next folder, I drag it up above the original track, and then drag the original track above the new one to restore order. But this is just a couple more things that get in the way of making music.
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dontletmedrown
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 23, 09 11:59 PM
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Ya, especially if the track folder beneath has lots of tracks...
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Amazed
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 0:23 PM
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select the first track in your folder and then insert a new track. Doesn't that go outside the folder too?
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bitflipper
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 1:48 AM
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I agree that when you clone a track the clone should be placed into the same folder as the parent. I'll bet 99.9% of the time that's what users want. Have you ever cloned a vocal track with the intention of placing in the "Drums" folder?
I also think that when you create a track via the Insert -> Track menu it should insert the track into the currently-selected track folder. Why call the operation "Insert" if you're going to append it?
Not that this is a big deal or anything. But I'd sure like to see the CW folks revisit some of these basic features, preferably with a focus group. Let's have fewer new plugins in the next rev and more ergonomic enhancements instead.
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panup
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 4:27 AM
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Yes, Track Folder is essential property of a track. Default behaviour should be changed.
Same applied in Windows Explorer: if I clone a file in My Documents, I don't want it go in Your Documents.
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 5:05 AM
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well said bit. Really, its getting to the point where wrokflow optimization is really the best candy
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hairyjamie
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 7:25 AM
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+1 I find this a constant annoyance.
Am I being too impatient not to want to type in a destination track number every time? I'd like the default behaviour to be the most common request.
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bvideo
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 9:42 AM
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bitflipper
I agree that when you clone a track the clone should be placed into the same folder as the parent. I'll bet 99.9% of the time that's what users want. Have you ever cloned a vocal track with the intention of placing in the "Drums" folder?
I also think that when you create a track via the Insert -> Track menu it should insert the track into the currently-selected track folder. Why call the operation "Insert" if you're going to append it?
Not that this is a big deal or anything. But I'd sure like to see the CW folks revisit some of these basic features, preferably with a focus group. Let's have fewer new plugins in the next rev and more ergonomic enhancements instead.
Yes, it seems that insert track, drag-move track, and clone track all suffer from the same concept, probably dating from when folders were first grafted onto the track list -- the new target location of the track is taken to mean "use the same folder as the existing track" at the track number of the target location, rather than use the folder of the track just in front of the target track number. This makes it difficult to drag a track from some other location into the end of a folder, etc. On the other hand, making this simple change would make it difficult to drag or insert something to the top of a folder. The concept suffers because track folders are not explicitly addressable by any of these operations. So if you want to insert, drag, or clone a track into a slot between two tracks that happen to be in two different folders, Sonar does not provide a way to select which folder you intend or even to choose "not in either folder, but make this a top-level track". Bill B
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guitartrek
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 9:44 AM
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bitflipper
I agree that when you clone a track the clone should be placed into the same folder as the parent. I'll bet 99.9% of the time that's what users want. Have you ever cloned a vocal track with the intention of placing in the "Drums" folder?
I also think that when you create a track via the Insert -> Track menu it should insert the track into the currently-selected track folder. Why call the operation "Insert" if you're going to append it?
Not that this is a big deal or anything. But I'd sure like to see the CW folks revisit some of these basic features, preferably with a focus group. Let's have fewer new plugins in the next rev and more ergonomic enhancements instead.
Well said. The analogy of copying a file in explorer which always places the copied file in the same folder is great example. There are a ton of little things like this that should be changed to make the software more intuitive. It seems that they are always racing to put more plugins or new features in the next release - which I can understand to stay competitive - but it would be nice if they would spend 10% to 15% of the development time fixing "defaults" and workflow issues like this throughout the year - every year. Just a small portion of effort could go a long way.
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bvideo
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 10:21 AM
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Well said. The analogy of copying a file in explorer which always places the copied file in the same folder is great example.
The analogy to Windows explorer doesn't hold up well enough to be a model for Sonar, e.g. because there is no way in Windows to display the contents of multiple folders in one window and no way in Sonar to display the contents of folders in separate windows. Generally, folders don't seem to be fully addressable in Sonar. Can't select & operate on multiple ones, etc. Also, tracks are only addressable by their "number", i.e. by their order in the track window, and not by their folder location. Bill B
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Amazed
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 10:29 AM
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bitflipper
Let's have fewer new plugins in the next rev and more ergonomic enhancements instead. +1
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strikinglyhandsome1
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 10:33 AM
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Seems to me that Cake should aim for the obvious - it's called the obvious because it's obvious, obviously.
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dcmg
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1
November 24, 09 10:36 AM
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Where this behavior becomes annoying is when you have only the currently selected tracks/folder in view.....then you clone your track.
The cloned one is created "out of view", so you're forced to open your project up full view to locate your new cloned track before dragging it to its intended folder.
Nothing about that is elegant workflow :)
Please change this Cakewalk.
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ChristopherM
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 12:16 AM
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After cloning a track the new track wound up in a totally different spot. I also experience an associated graphics corruption issue, whereby if the folder where the new track has landed is then closed/collapsed or whatever the right word is, the new track stays visible "in the middle of nowhere". It has a descender/connector line back to the original folder from which it is cloned. This odd behaviour persists until the project is closed and re-opened. It doesn't always happen, and (since closing and re-opening gets rid of it) it's not exactly repeatable. Anyone else seen this anomaly?
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SONARtist
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 12:53 AM
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It's probably been said somewhere here ... but ...
The default action should be changed so that the cloned track appears in the same folder, and below the source. If the source is not in a folder, then the cloned track should still appear below the source track (and not at the end). Anyone wishing the new track to be somewhere else in their project, can DRAG it there. As bit said, I can also imagine that most of the time (guessing, but 90% +) people want the cloned track in the same folder AND below the source.
My 2 cents ...
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SilkTone
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 1:15 PM
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The first time I saw this behavior I thought it was a bug. It is hard for me to imagine this is "by design" and therefore the desired behavior. The most obvious thing to happen when you clone a track is that the new track should appear right after the track you cloned from, and in the same folder.
Hopefully while they fix that, they can also give us nested folders. One level just isn't enough.
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John
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 1:36 PM
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The default action should be changed so that the cloned track appears in the same folder, and below the source. If the source is not in a folder, then the cloned track should still appear below the source track (and not at the end). Anyone wishing the new track to be somewhere else in their project, can DRAG it there. As bit said, I can also imagine that most of the time (guessing, but 90% +) people want the cloned track in the same folder AND below the source. Sorry, but I have to agree with this in total. I take it this is a folder issue. I have cloned tracks and not seen this behavior but I have never done a clone inside folder.
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dontletmedrown
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 2:36 PM
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Well, it seems unanimous. Now lets just keep bumping this thread until it ends up in the coffee house. 
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guitartrek
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 7:34 PM
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Since Cakewake support ruled this issue as "Intended" and not a bug, I'll submit a feature request. Maybe I'll include the URL of this thread so they can see that no-one is endorsing this cloning behaviour.
Thank you to all for your comments. Hopefully they will change this cloning behavior in a future release.
(maybe if this thread keeps getting bumped, a cakewalk representative will weigh in?)
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guitartrek
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 24, 09 7:57 PM
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Feature Request submitted. I'll share their response when I get it!
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SONARtist
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Re:Cloning track puts new track in different Folder 8.5.1 - Got Response from Cakewalk
November 25, 09 12:09 AM
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Do you think it would help if we all sent in a FR individually ? Maybe they (the guys who look at FRs) don't read forum threads ...
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