USB Interfaces

Page: < 1234 Showing page 4 of 4
Author
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8594
  • Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
  • Location: betwixt and between
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2010/12/30 15:46:31 (permalink)
not to argue with Mike, but i use an echo audiofire interface, cool, not the lowest of round trip latency. now, i use guitar rig 4 all the time, and my signal chain is guitar>soundcraft mixer>audiofire>pc>sonar>guitar rig>sonar>pc>audiofire>mixer>monitors. i run at 128 samples, around 2.9 secs reported latency, but roundtrip is more like 11ms, and i can easily play guitar in real-time...also soft-synths. of course, sonar delay compensates for the playback audio, but even so, if this round-trip was such an issue i'd be in trouble, huh?

if sound travels approximately 1 ft/ms then standing 10 feet from a drum kit would give me 10 ms delay alone? how do bands ever play?!

Memorare debut album 'Philistine' available now http://blackwoodproductio...philistine-digipack-cd
#91
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2010/12/30 16:07:34 (permalink)
That's not arguing, that's laying out some facts and offering an opinion.

And btw, I am generally left in awe of mgh's music productions... so what he just said would mean a lot to me if I was reading through the whole thread.

Thanks mgh.

best regards,
mike


#92
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8594
  • Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
  • Location: betwixt and between
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2010/12/30 16:20:42 (permalink)
yeah thanks for taking that the right way Mike, i know from experience some people are a lot more aware of latency than others, and i know that as an engineer (which you certainly are) it's your job to pinpoint the technical nuances of a mix, and certainly detecting off-timing is a part of that. i don't know, but has the introduction of ad/da conversion using computers increased, decreased or not affected latency when compared to using hardware channels/comps/eq etc and tape?

Memorare debut album 'Philistine' available now http://blackwoodproductio...philistine-digipack-cd
#93
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2010/12/30 16:39:52 (permalink)
I remember being a young guy and the fist time I sat in a studio in front of a reel to reel and asking the guys?

"Hey, how much of a delay is there between the play head and the record head? Isn't that a problem? Doesn't that cause a delay shift?"

They looked at me like I was some sort of space alien and said "we never thought about that".

We could probably calculate 14ips and the distance of the small gap and figure out the number but it was evidently a non issue.  All the electronics in analog stuff is pretty much moving at the speed of light and that's a lot faster than 1msec/foot like sound.

So, perhaps the very best studios introduced playback delay for sync at the tape decks record heads... but I never learned of that.

I'd love to learn more about it if someone else has details.

best regards,
mike


edit spelling
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/12/30 20:56:37


#94
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 9871
  • Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
  • Location: Ohio
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2010/12/31 01:01:52 (permalink)
It's easy to compare the feel of playing thru 5-6ms vs. playing thru 12-18ms Round-Trip-Latency.
If you have an audio interface that delivers low RTL (5-6ms at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size).
Use software based input monitoring to listen to the feel at 5-6ms. 
Now... insert a delay plugin (100% wet) that adds 6ms (simulating 12ms RTL).
Finally, increase the delay to 12ms (simultating 18ms RTL).
Compare the feel of playing thru all the above.
Report back which feels best.
 
Anyone *can* play thru 10+ms RTL...
But once you've experienced significantly lower RTL, and how much tighter the timing feels, you're never going to go back.  Also, you need to note that when playing soft-synths, some are slightly latent.
Thus, if you're playing back at 6ms one-way (playback) latency... and the soft-synth adds 2-3ms (or more) of extra latency... you're getting close to the 10ms mark.
Playing Kontakt samples at 10ms latency definitely feels sluggish.
Much more so than playing a Motif, M3, Fantom G, etc...
 
Take the OrangeTree Guitar samples for example...
Excellent library... very advanced use of scripts (Good stuff and loads of fun)
Setup Kontakt to playback at a 64-sample ASIO buffer size.
Play some fast runs and you can feel the latency caused by the scripting.
Now imagine how it feels playing the library (or similar) starting with double/quadruple the playback latency.  It's going to feel very sluggish.
 
As native DAWs have progressed (speed/power), the issue of low round-trip latency has become more significant.  10 years ago, effective monitoring thru (native) software processing was not possible.
Thus, we were happy to use workarounds (monitoring straight off the console, etc)
Today, we have the processing power (and audio interfaces) to allow effective monitoring thru native software processing.  With the plethora of excellent sounding plugins (like Ampeg SVX), some folks are going to want this capability.  There are inexpensive options that provide low round-trip-latency... as well as more expensive/elaborate units.  Make a good choice... and you're set.  Make a bad choice... and you either live with high RTL... or you buy another audio interface.
 
 

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#95
finesdim
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3
  • Joined: 2010/12/31 04:20:48
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2010/12/31 04:58:54 (permalink)
USB [Universal Serial Bus] layer specification defines mechanical, electrical and protocol interface. The cables and connectors are well defined. USB defines two types of equipment, facilities and functions. Up to 127 devices can be connected together in a star topology level. The limiting factor is the address of 7 bits.
#96
Zuma
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 525
  • Joined: 2006/01/13 17:56:03
  • Location: SoCal...High and dry in LA
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2011/01/01 20:50:48 (permalink)
My eyes are peeled for USB 3.0 interfaces.  But I'm wondering how the new spec labeling will affect production? From a purely speculative, theoretical standpoint, how long might it be before we even see a USB 3 Audio interface? Or will it be more a case of being able to maximize the performance of current USB 2.0 gear? Probably more the latter to start. Manufacturers will now have to prove they can deliver the theoretical 5GBPS... Hell, half that would be amazing.  It would be interesting to hear  thoughts on where this is all heading as USB 3.0 gets set to roll out.
post edited by Zuma - 2011/01/01 23:07:58

http://zumajunction.bandcamp.com/

"the bus came by and I got on that's when it all began. There was cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never ever land."_



#97
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8594
  • Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
  • Location: betwixt and between
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2011/01/02 07:51:40 (permalink)
you won't need usb3's bandwidth unless you're doing some kinda 96 channel simultaneous recording; i mean why don't we see e/Sata interfaces? and even usb3 is gonna be superceded by the intel light-based interface format, isn't it?

Memorare debut album 'Philistine' available now http://blackwoodproductio...philistine-digipack-cd
#98
Zuma
Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 525
  • Joined: 2006/01/13 17:56:03
  • Location: SoCal...High and dry in LA
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2011/01/02 09:24:46 (permalink)
I think that's beside the point though. Manufacturers will take advantage of the new protocol in some form or fashion... even if it's merely being able to maximize the performance of existing 2.0 interfaces. I realize we don't need to access 5GBPS or even half that... but I can't see the industry not taking advantage of the newer protocol. And I also wonder what this might mean for Firewire.

http://zumajunction.bandcamp.com/

"the bus came by and I got on that's when it all began. There was cowboy Neal at the wheel of a bus to never ever land."_



#99
StevenMikel
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 319
  • Joined: 2010/06/04 00:16:35
  • Location: Greenfield In.
  • Status: offline
Re:USB Interfaces 2011/01/13 06:55:48 (permalink)
Well,I got the Line 6 UX2 and I'm very happy with it so far.I've only done a couple of recordings of my guitar with it and,its made a big difference..I haven't recorded any synths with it yet but will very soon.
Page: < 1234 Showing page 4 of 4
Jump to:
© 2025 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1