John


Noel I think there are far more users that are happy with X1 then not. I wouldn't let this forum get to you in any way other then to see how vocal the few are in their dislike of what many of us see as a great first start. I have been reporting that I have not had any major issues with X1. I think that there are still areas to be worked on but over all its a great DAW and one that will get better over time.

I thank you for what your team has done to fix so many reported bugs. I do know that the list does not include all the fixes either.

Just keep on doing what you are doing and it will all work out.

John,

I'm not sure I follow your logic about how many dislike or like X1 as being relevant to bugs.

Let's say you were one of a few who happen to use the software a certain way and happen to discover one (or more) of the bugs that were on the X1B fix list.

If one was to only go by the count, and before the bugs were confirmed, that would mean those 'few' should be discounted?  Not matter?

I thank CW/Noel/Et al for all their hard work as well.  But I think making this a quantity rather than quality preposition is not in the best interest of any of us.

I won't use it until I can interface the ProChannel it with my array of bcxbcr control surfaces. I'll use 8.5.3 and 3rd party EQs that work with them until then.

John, I'm not sure I follow your logic about how many dislike or like X1 as being relevant to bugs. Let's say you were one of a few who happen to use the software a certain way and happen to discover one (or more) of the bugs that were on the X1B fix list. If one was to only go by the count, and before the bugs were confirmed, that would mean those 'few' should be discounted? Not matter? I thank CW/Noel/Et al for all their hard work as well. But I think making this a quantity rather than quality preposition is not in the best interest of any of us.

I don't know what you are talking about.

My post was to Noel only because I read in his post a very melancholy kind of post. One that seemed to me was disappointed with what he felt was a huge effort on CW's part. That nothing they did was being received with any sort of acknowledgment of the hard work that went into this update. But it goes back too. Too much negative threads have been posted here and at some point being human it has to have an impact.

I will add this too. Some keep assuming that CW released X1 knowing it was not finished. That could be true but none of us know this as fact. If it is not true and forum members keep saying that then if you were a CW employee wouldn't it have some bad effect on your moral if in fact they thought it was ready?   

Remember we are talking about people, real people. I for one am not going to pile on in order to some how get my view expressed when I don't know the facts.

One of the really bad things about being an employee is when a customer is ranting at you you really can't reply as you would want to. Its as if CW can't defend itself on its own forum.

I think we need to be a lot less confrontational with CW and stop accusing them of things we can not know the truth about. Report genuine bugs. Ask questions but don't think that CW is lacking in integrity when we have no evidence of that.  

John,

I, for one, am not bashing Cw, Noel or anyone else.

I know they're working hard.

You completely missed my point, but that's ok.

Moving on now ;)

In the title is a statement of no confidence. In the OP nothing is stated as to a reason for this except for what I think the OP has read on this forum.

One has to ask how does one gain confidence? To me that is gained through usage. If the OP is not going to use X1 he will never have confidence with it ever.

I have always kept the last version of Sonar on my system for just this kind of thing. When a new Sonar is released and I have upgraded I never remove the old one and go only with the new. I will only stop using the old when I am confident that the new is just as good as the old.

With X1 I kept Sonar 8.5.3 on my system as I have stated. Yet I have only opened it to check about questions relating to this forum. Not because X1 wasn't working for me.

Why is it that the OP has chosen to not use X1 when he appears not to have run into a problem with it? Why is he not using the experience of forum members that say like myself it works?

And why recording bass is so problematic on X1 if he has a full project under 8.5.3? Wouldn't a save as in X1 keep the old project safe and one he could revert back to if needed?

All I read in the OP's post was fear. Fear due to what he has read here. That is very sad to me.

The rest of this thread is much the same as so many threads. Instead of looking at what we have in the B patch its finding as much wrong as can be found. Making assertions that have no foundation but some take as gospel. The considered wisdom of the forum.

Well the only people that know the real facts are the very people that can't give the facts. They become a very easy target.

I think we need to sit back and see how it all works out. In the meantime use X1 find bugs and report them. Then we will all be better off.

 

John


In the title is a statement of no confidence. In the OP nothing is stated as to a reason for this except for what I think the OP has read on this forum.

One has to ask how does one gain confidence? To me that is gained through usage. If the OP is not going to use X1 he will never have confidence with it ever.

I have always kept the last version of Sonar on my system for just this kind of thing. When a new Sonar is released and I have upgraded I never remove the old one and go only with the new. I will only stop using the old when I am confident that the new is just as good as the old.

With X1 I kept Sonar 8.5.3 on my system as I have stated. Yet I have only opened it to check about questions relating to this forum. Not because X1 wasn't working for me.

Why is it that the OP has chosen to not use X1 when he appears not to have run into a problem with it? Why is he not using the experience of forum members that say like myself it works?

And why recording bass is so problematic on X1 if he has a full project under 8.5.3? Wouldn't a save as in X1 keep the old project safe and one he could revert back to if needed?

All I read in the OP's post was fear. Fear due to what he has read here. That is very sad to me.

The rest of this thread is much the same as so many threads. Instead of looking at what we have in the B patch its finding as much wrong as can be found. Making assertions that have no foundation but some take as gospel. The considered wisdom of the forum.

Well the only people that know the real facts are the very people that can't give the facts. They become a very easy target.

I think we need to sit back and see how it all works out. In the meantime use X1 find bugs and report them. Then we will all be better off.

My, my...you sure misread my openning post.  As a reminder, this is from my openning quote:  "I've been working a lot lately with X1(a) and now X1(b) and assumed we would just move the project over to X1(b)."
 
Yes, I have backed up my 8.5.3 project but that's not the point.  The point is that I don't have enough confidence in X1(b) AT THE MOMENT.  I'm NOT worried, or as you say, fearful, of losing the project.  I just don't want to run the risk of wasting hours of "real" studio work only to find out I have to drop back to 8.5.3 and REDO all of my efforts.  I will CONTINTUE to work with X1(b) along side 8.5.3 until I feel comfortable with it.  And yes, I have had issues using X1(b).  In fact, I reported an issue with the FX Chain.  Cake was able to reproduce the issue and opened a case for development...very cool.
 
Look, I'm not bashing X1(b).  I'm just saying that having personnally experienced bugs and seeing lots of other folks have issues AS WELL AS Cake listing at least 150+ bugs that I just don't have confidence in X1 YET.  I'm sure I'll get there as I CONTINUE to work with X1.  I love 8.5.3 and I'm routing for X1!!!

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]

I wasnt implying at all that issues reported were not legit in any way.
Bugs are an unfortunate consequence when we release something as huge as X1, especially something that changes the user interface so deeply. Since many issues were in the UI area they are more "user visible" and as a consequence of this they can also appear more serious since you encounter some of them more frequently depending on workflow.
No amount of beta testing or quality control will reveal every problem scenario that an end user will encounter. The best we can do is address the issues reported by our users, which is exactly what we have been trying to do. X1B addresses the vast majority of issues that were reported or detected since we shipped. If there are still serious issues pending despite this the best avenue is to report these so we can investigate them. Thats all I'm asking for.

No it wasn't all you were asking for.

You were calling the posters out for what you percieved as 'sarcasm' and putting a negative 'spin' on things.

No amount of beta testing will bring out every issue true, but this release has hardly been a case of weird obscure in depth issues coming to light in strange circumstances.

Nobody doubts you have been working hard to address issues, I'd have a hard time believing you are not aware of many issues that still need fixing though.

A 'free' update which is what X1b is being marketed as in my inbox as if it is some added value feature set when it's actually a fix/patch for a badly flawed initial release and the constant lack of acknowledgement that this is indeed the case, is to my mind the real spin and a genuine cause of complaint for many frustrated users, for which there is no problem reporting page in which to log that fact.

Surely somebody in the company can see this and will come outright and say it instead of blaming 3rd party plugins, hardware vendors and worse still your customer base. A big release maybe be but that was your choice as a company to make at this stage.  Be thankful that many have been prepared to keep faith and stick with it like they have rather than think they are ungrateful.

It's your turkey, keep plucking, you'll know when your done because you'll get bouquets rather than brickbats.

Jonbouy

...
Surely somebody in the company can see this and will come outright and say it instead of blaming 3rd party plugins, hardware vendors and worse still your customer base. A big release maybe be but that was your choice as a company to make at this stage.  Be thankful that many have been prepared to keep faith and stick with it like they have rather than think they are ungrateful...

I think this is the thing that really undermines my confidence...Cake not stepping up and saying "oops our bad.  We apologize and you can be assured that we will make every effort to correct all know issues."  Roland's VS2480 had a design flaw that caused harmonic distortion to be introduced by the preamps.  Those of the user community that knew about it complained loudly but it was NEVER acknowledged by Roland.  Several of the users community were able to take the box apart and diagnose what electronic changes had to be made to correct the issue and they informed Roland.  Roland still did not notify their customers that there was an issue.  However, if you sent you VS2480 back to Roland they would make the fix for you for free.  Great, except there were many who did not know about this.  So, a VS2480 project could be flawed with distortion and not noticed until someone listening said, "hey what's that noise I hear?"  At that point it's too late, the project is ruined and the owner of the VS2480 may not even know it was the box and not his mixing...that's pretty bad.

Yes, I still don't have confidence in X1 yet.  I worry that, in the middle of a large project that I've spent hours and hours on, some bug that I didn't know about is going to bite me in the a$$.

These terms get thrown around such that the water gets pretty muddied:

• Release
• Update
• Fix
• Version
• Patch

It may seem like semantics but there ought to be a distinction between a newer version, with new or improved features, versus patches/fixes. There should be a difference in the release frequency of such updates.

Seems goofy to think of X1A and B as different versions; it's still X1. The suffixes are just for tracking the patches.

However it shakes out, keep the patches coming.