Twigman
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 08:23:31
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jm24
RE: the OP message and comment
Right-click-context-menus are everywhere in software. It is a reasonable expectation to assume a right-click-context-menu exists for most every object.
Having to display the inspector is not intuitive from any user's viewpoint. A learned action? Yes.
But having to move one's eyes to another part of the screen is not based in the science of GUI design. And SX1 abounds in this.
The number of reductions in SX1 of this type of nearly universal assumption begs the question about how it was the CW managers, hoping/knowing, the majority of income from SX1 would be from existing user upgrade would decide to "MOVE" such historically existing, universally expected, valid interface design functions?
Why MOVE? Why not just add functions?
This example along with all the other reductions in flexibility continue to astound me.
This is not about learning a new interface. This is about how a group of intelligent people made decisions that changed the software with the result of making it more difficult to use for existing users, the primary source of revenue, goodwill, and recommendation.
This is Kafkaesque at its best. "grey is red, green, orange,..." is what we have been told. "More clicks, and diverted attention is quicker."
And the offstage chorus of agreers is frightening, in its continued chanting of "more is less."
New users need simplicity. But power users need flexibility, not restrictions.
"She turned me into a newt."
" A newt?!!"
"Well, it got better."
J
This is exactly the way I've felt about X1 since I first used it. There do not seem to be that many of us with this view and I find that quite disturbing. That so many people accept the new methods without question astounds me. That anyone believes the new way is better amazes me. Still the debate will rage on. Perhaps someone from Cakewalk might like to shed some light on why such right click menu options have been moved elsewhere on the GUI? Or more probably they won't as I don't believe there can be a satisfactory explanation. What was the thinking behind that?
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Karyn
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 08:30:11
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I'm with you Twig, I HATE the new interface with a passion. I use it because I have no choice.
Mekashi Futo. Get 10% off all Waves plugins.Current DAW. i7-950, Gigabyte EX58-UD5, 12Gb RAM, 1Tb SSD, 2x2Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 260, Antec 1000W psu, Win7 64bit, Studio 192, Digimax FS, KRK RP8G2, Sonar Platinum
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subtlearts
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 08:40:17
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This I agree with fully. I do understand why they wanted to overhaul the interface. I do understand some of the changes they made. But I don't understand why functionality, ESPECIALLY right-click contextual menu functionality, was REMOVED. I personally am getting along fairly well with X1 but there are definitely times when I go to a right-click by habit and have to say, why on earth would you not want me to have access to that function here?
My personal ideal would be to actually have customizable control over menus, much as we do for keybindings. Overhaul the keybinding interface while you're at it and allow search by function as well as by key, and allow any function that is keybindable to be put in any menu we like. Why not? Other programs do it, notably Reaper in the DAW space (there may be others). It doesn't seem to be hurting them.
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 09:56:00
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subtlearts
This I agree with fully. I do understand why they wanted to overhaul the interface. I do understand some of the changes they made. But I don't understand why functionality, ESPECIALLY right-click contextual menu functionality, was REMOVED. I personally am getting along fairly well with X1 but there are definitely times when I go to a right-click by habit and have to say, why on earth would you not want me to have access to that function here?
My personal ideal would be to actually have customizable control over menus, much as we do for keybindings. Overhaul the keybinding interface while you're at it and allow search by function as well as by key, and allow any function that is keybindable to be put in any menu we like. Why not? Other programs do it, notably Reaper in the DAW space (there may be others). It doesn't seem to be hurting them.
+1 on that. One thing that is driving me absolutely nuts is the record/punch options when switching from sound on sound and over-write. I was all set to record something this morning, set up my punch points and walked into my drum room. Pressed record and over-wrote my drum tracks because the little option for this that we used to have isn't there anymore as a reminder...so I'm forgetting to change this constantly and it's rather annoying. I'm still hating the options being in all one place too with different heading names than I'm used to from before. Using this program on a daily basis and I still feel like a n00b using it and forget where things are. I'd beg for more customization and the option to use some of the old methods we're so used to that "just worked" for us. :(
My Site Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
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jm24
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 10:37:26
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An aside:
I never use SAVE, always use SAVE AS and add an alpha letter to the name. Learned this many years ago when programming spreadsheets.
SAVE is distructive, it should ALWAYS require confirmation.
I also use the auto save function of Sonar. It does interfere with work a bit, but I rarely loose any work.
I occasionaly delete old cwp files from the folders.
J
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gothic.angel
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 10:48:50
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Danny Danzi
...I'd beg for more customization and the option to use some of the old methods we're so used to that "just worked" for us. :(
+1,000,000.... DEFINITELY....
GothicAngeL - EBM - Dark Electronics______________________________SONAR Platinum ∞, Rapture ProSAMPLITUDE X3 Pro Suite, FL Studio 12, Reason 10
_________________________________________ DELL Dimension E521 - AMD 64X2 - Windows 10 Pro_________________________________________ Proud "Apple's i-STUFF" Worst Enemy...
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pwal
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2011/04/12 11:53:48
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mechuniversal
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 08:11:11
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Thanks Thread, I simply couldn't figure out how to name a clip in X1! I was also really used to the right click for everything. I thought it was fine as it was, but oh well. I see how to do it now. As for reading the manual, I looked in the index under "name" for naming a clip, and under "clip" hopeing to find naming under that header, in the X1 power book, but nothing. Thanks to this thread tho, for introducing me to the "inspector".
I think Sonar should remember that it was the "musician friendly" sequencer. I really don't want to have to read a whole manual lol. I still have no idea what the whole "skylight" thing is all about. I don't mind getting into the manual for specific, acvanced features, but I don't want to have to read the whole thing just to learn to use sonar again. For the most part, it's been OK so far I guess. haha, anyway good luck everyone
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konradh
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 09:53:31
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I keep the Inspector and Browser open all the time.
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SvenArne
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 10:35:13
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mechuniversal
I think Sonar should remember that it was the "musician friendly" sequencer.
Old thread alarm! I don't think SONAR/Cakewalk Pro Audio has ever been regarded as more "musician friendly" than the competition. In fact, most of my friends who are used to other DAWsalways seem to have found it pretty complicated and hard to approach. When you work it into your fingers, though, I think it's absolutely killer and faster than most DAWs when it comes to composing and mixing (not talking raw editing here). I really don't feel that X1 has steepened SONAR's learning curve at all. If anything, quite the opposite! Sven
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 10:39:34
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Spooky thing is it was resurrected exactly a year after it last died. Cue twilight zone music...
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jm24
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 11:39:02
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Using the Right-click menu to display an object's properties has been a standard windows function from the beginning.
Changing the link to display the inspector, reasonable.
Removing the link, was just plain dumb.
Adding the view synth rack link to the browser was reasonable.
Removing the link from the view menu, dumb.
Adding menus to change envelopes, and notes values,.. as an alternative, reasonable
Requiring the extra clicks, dumb.
The learning curve has been lengthened for those of use who have used the program forever, expecting additional functionality, and bug fixes. But with X1 we got lots of arbitrary changes without improvement of power. (and many of the long time bugs, and annoyances, are still there)
Many of the changes were based upon the premise that de-cluttering was more important that quick access, and flexibility.
Adding stuff is always cool. Except when the bits never work correctly.
Removing stuff that worked well, and replacing it with new incomplete code, without a choice, reduces power.
Example: I have clients that have used MS office for years. Very productive they were. And then came Office 2010 with the ribbon. Disaster.
The ribbon is great for new users, but is total crap for power users. For with it came many changed (lost) functions. 2 clicks instead of one. Or no longer available.
At least we can add some SMALL 1-click buttons to a button bar so we can have the clutter we have come to know so well.
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timidi
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 11:50:42
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Karyn
I'm with you Twig, I HATE the new interface with a passion. I use it because I have no choice.
fixed. +1
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jm24
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 12:04:15
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>>>> A right menu is only intuitive if you know about it and what its going to do.
Right clicking to get to an object's properties is a fundamental function of windows. This intuition and expectation is based upon more than 20 years of experience using windows (no mac)
Changing what happens when the link is clicked, reasonable.
Removing the link, dumb.
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pwal
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/13 12:32:58
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i'd speculate they just haven't finished bolting gui 2.0 onto 1.0 yet, and some of those standard things will come...
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Glyn Barnes
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 00:46:28
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sven450
You expect to find commands about a track's properties under an arbitrary right click.
In just about every piece of Windows software I use right clicking on a object brings up either a context sensitive menu or a property dialogue, so for me that is totally logical, far more logical than pressing an arbitrary key. IMHO "Shortcuts" should be precisely that, not the only way of accessing a command or dialogue. Its much easier to find something in a context sensitive menu than it is to wade through pages of key commands. They only save time, and then only a tiny amount of time, once you have memorized them.
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John
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 00:57:38
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Right clicking on objects in X1 will bring up menus. Tracks, track headers. buses, and so on. If you are saying that X1 does not have right click menus you are wrong.
Further where did anyone get the notion that it didn't?
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Bub 
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 01:25:00
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John
Right clicking on objects in X1 will bring up menus. Tracks, track headers. buses, and so on. If you are saying that X1 does not have right click menus you are wrong.
Further where did anyone get the notion that it didn't?
When they doubled clicked the Sonar X1 icon on their desktop and actually started using the program and saw that the right click track properties option had been removed after being there since the beginning of Windows based DAW's.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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John
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 01:38:07
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Bub
John
Right clicking on objects in X1 will bring up menus. Tracks, track headers. buses, and so on. If you are saying that X1 does not have right click menus you are wrong.
Further where did anyone get the notion that it didn't?
When they doubled clicked the Sonar X1 icon on their desktop and actually started using the program and saw that the right click track properties option had been removed after being there since the beginning of Windows based DAW's.
Track properties are no longer hidden in a right click menu. They are visible in the track inspector. None the less right clicking will bring up an extensive menu on a track. All sorts of things can be done via that menu. Really its a matter of getting to know X1.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 02:21:04
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OMG, isn't there enough arguing about the virtues or not of X1, without having to resurrect year old threads?
Whether the moving of items from a right click menu is right or wrong is pretty irrelevant, if I hadn't got my head round it after nearly 18 months I think I'd give up.
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trimph1
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 02:55:56
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You'd think this GUI stuff was over...I guess not.
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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soens
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Re:Am i being an idiot?
2012/04/14 06:58:03
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It does seem rather GUI in here. Careful where you step!  What I found surprising is right clicking on PRV notes. Used to bring up the properties. Now it just deletes them. I've had to resurrect tons of deleted notes that way cause I still haven't learned not to do that!  I'm now under strict mental theraputic advice to chant these words before opening X1: "DO Not Right Click The Notes! DO Not Right Click The Notes! DO Not Right Click The Notes!" It's helping but still a work in progress.
post edited by soens - 2012/04/14 07:14:58
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