Sweetening the high end on a mix

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Jeff Evans
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Re:Sweetening the high end on a mix 2011/06/12 19:07:05 (permalink)
Hey Danny  I mean what I say about keeping a copy of all your posts. At first I thought it would be hard to do but it is not too bad once you get started. I know you have posted in many threads but probably mainly Techniques like me. Once you start copying and pasting you will be amazed at how much there is.

I teach sound engineering at night at a TAFE college for extra income and I do it (keep copies of all my posts that is) mainly for them. Once you have got a word doc with all your posts in then it is just a matter of organising them in terms of subject matter and order of complexity as well. And you would have to edit some of the wording to bring it down more into point form.

You can approach things from a theory point of view and a very practical point of view. As I said your posts seem to me to be based around real world experiences and I think that is very good. Many students want to know the real world answers.  Theory can keep you from endlessly trying to do something and you may not know why something is not working for you.

Interesting that you may be in Australia. Perth is very long way from Melbourne and Adelaide is not too bad. If you were in Adelaide I could maybe make it over there for a visit. My wife has lots of family and friends there and we don't mind doing that trip. It is not too bad. (700Km each way) Depends when you might be there etc.. Because of my teaching I cannot take off at any time.

Perth is cool place too. My son is studying a Jazz degree there right now. Perth has the best Jazz course in Australia at the moment by far. They have a pretty cool jazz scene there too. It is quite a beautiful city actually. What I do like about it is the pop music scen in the pubs etc is not rock based so much but more Groove based. Quite different music to what is going on in Melbourne pubs etc which is much more rock based etc..


post edited by Jeff Evans - 2011/06/12 19:09:08

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#61
Danny Danzi
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Re:Sweetening the high end on a mix 2011/06/12 19:23:43 (permalink)
Hi Jeff,

Yeah I always keep copies of the posts I make on here that are worth anything. I have my own forum as well where I share quite a bit of info, so some of them come in handy there.

Yeah you have me figured out in full man....I'm a totally "by experience guy" and to be honest Jeff, I'm a theoretical dope in everything I do. I kinda like that though because in a sense, I think it forms a different way of teaching. I mean don't get me wrong, I know quite a bit of technical information but I think all too often, some of the technicalities can lose someone wanting to learn. There are others that are book worms that just love to learn all there is to know about something. I've always had a problem with that. Like, as much as I love recording and all that goes with it, there are certain books that others brag about that I just kinda found...well...kinda boring and monotone in a sense. For example, I've worked with Bob Katz and have talked to him both on the phone and via email. Great guy, smart guy, a definite guru in my world....but sometimes, he loses me. On some things, I don't agree with his methods due to trying what he's told me vs. things that *I* have done in my experience that I like better and feel make more of a difference.

I'm also one of those guys that has to be able to feel and hear a major difference in something to totally buy into it....and some stuff in this field, really appears to be hype to me that I just stay away from and I'd never even think of talking about it or teaching it to someone. I guess in my experience I have met way more people that had short attention spans. This definitely affects how you have to go about teaching when you're in contact with individuals like that. I think we need the same thing in schools because some of the stuff that gets taught isn't stuff that can be used in the real world for all people. So in turn, those that may not be interested will definitely fall behind and have a shorter attention span. I like to teach things from the heart with a bit of theory involved while giving the individual something challenging for them as well as something fun to keep incentive so they can show their friends and family and get a little cheer out of them. I do it with my recording students as well as my guitar students and it's really been working out well. I guess my mentality on the whole thing is...there has to be a little theory involved to grasp anything, but over-doing it can definitely lose someone. So I go in moderation and try to keep the super techy stuff out of the way. If the person decides to go deeper into it, they always have that option at their disposal. :)

Ah man, don't you worry...if I'm in the same country as you, and you don't mind me showing up, I'll get to you. I'd never expect you to leave your work and find me. LOL! If this thing happens, I'll definitely let you know so maybe you can see what your schedule is like and we can go from there. :) Thanks Jeff.

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Deisel401rs
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Re:Sweetening the high end on a mix 2011/06/16 15:54:20 (permalink)
I've used the plugin and hardware versions for years. VERY judiciously. For my guitar amps, no way in heck. It totally kills the mids which is the foundation and "warmth" of any Marshall or Mesa. I'll use a tiny bit on other instruments tho'. Like on the drum bus and bass guitar. And I'm talking between 1.5 - 3 for Lo Contour and Process. To my ears the tiniest bit works very well in those instances. Would never use it on more than 1 or 2 tracks in a mix and never on a 2-bus. And always before the EQ if any. Just my opinion. A ton of great info in this thread. Thanks folks. I printed out several of the posts.

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Jeff Evans
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Re:Sweetening the high end on a mix 2011/06/16 17:54:26 (permalink)
Great to see Danny that you are backing up your posts. I am sorry I forgot that you do have another forum somewhere and it is very kind of you to put the energy into that for the benefit of others.

Well if you do make it to Australia and you are prepared to come all the way to Melbourne you can certainly stay here with me. It might be good to contact some of our other Melbourne forum members too and perhaps we might all get together.

I will put you to work. I do have a Start copy here and some preamps and plugins and things so I am confident we can whip up a great library track. I can write it and get all the rhythm section down first before you get here.

But if you do get as far as Adelaide and you cannot make it to Melbourne and you are there at the right time, I can also still make the trip over to see you as well. Don't mind doing that.

I have been busy lately learning Fruity Loops FL Studio 10 so I can teach someone this program. It is quite cool actually. Not for everyone I am sure but interesting none the less.

Back to high end in the mix. I am mixing some hiphop right now and have got a very warm fat sound on all the instruments in the mix. What is interesting about this mix is that all the sounds are very warm and smooth except two. The hats and a solo synth that takes a solo in the middle and the end of the track. Even the hats still have the top end rolled off to a certain extent and they still sound crsip. It is a classic example of how a warm mix can open your ears and then you can really start hearing highs. Even with just two instruments with a nice crisp top end what is good about it is that the mix does not sound dull at all in fact the opposite. A great example of how only very few elements need to be crisp and many others don't.

When only one or two elements are crisp then the mix tends to pulsate the crispness rhythm wise. The top end is more intersting to listen to because of the rhythm associated with just that crisp instrument. When everything is crisp in a mix then the rhythm of all the top end becomes smeared because there are way too many things adding to the top end rhythm.

Also having most things warm with only a few things being crisp is nothing like a mix that is everything crisp and you are toning it down top end wise to try and bring it back to normal. (say in mastering) Even though you can bring the top end of a bright mix back to normality you are still hearing many elements that are crisp as opposed to only a few.
post edited by Jeff Evans - 2011/06/16 21:13:18

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Philip
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Re:Sweetening the high end on a mix 2011/06/17 16:56:50 (permalink)
Jeff, I enjoy your thoughts of 'necessary-economy' of sparkle, especially on the hip-hop genre (which I've toy'd a bit with lately)

I've fixed some mixes this week where I've uncompressed/unmastered many of the sparkle items, as well as the lows.  Producer loops seem to have already 'mastered' much of the instruments and destroyed/distorted much timbre (mostly detected in the highs).

Philip  
(Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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Jeff Evans
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Re:Sweetening the high end on a mix 2011/06/17 17:31:41 (permalink)
Hi Philip Yes the problem with a lot of hip hop is that the beat can be a stereo file that you do not necessarily have a lot of control over. When artists construct the beat themselves they often do not mix it well and over master it in order to make it loud. But some artists are getting the beats complete from somewhere else and that makes it even harder.

But with this particular client I am fortunate enough to be able to get the beat split right down into its component parts. He does give it to me as a mix but also as separate tracks. It is then that you can control the amount of high end that is present with each component of the beat.

If you are not happy with how a beat sounds then try and ask them for the individual tracks. They might be able to give it to you. A lot of guys like using Reason to make the beat and then you can export those components easily.

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