All I want to know is did Brandon Seth and Ryan upgrade to every version?

S2 PE; S4 PE; S7 PE; X1 PE.... other times I was not paying attention, busy with work, kids, or my other hobby. If I am paying attention.... I am paying Cakewalk.
 
I am part of the Cakewalk Borg...
 
Julien

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

I'm just trying to clarify for everyone that we do have confirmation of an issue identified by Bub in regards to ProChannel turning on when reading automation that we can explain. Bub captured this in action here. It's hard to see from the video, but this was caused by an automation envelope assigned to "Track Compressor Output".

I guess ultimately if anyone experiences any issues with ProChannel randomly turning on, check and see if any envelopes are automating its parameters. If no envelopes are present and ProChannel randomly pops on, I encourage you to fill out the Problem Report, call us, email us, Private Message me, whatever.

Ryan ... I have already mentioned several times that the Pro Channel turned on by itself on a track without an envelope on it, but you keep coming back saying the problem is caused by an envelope.

Am I misinterpreting what you are saying? Can you please set me straight on it.

Thanks.

I've had every version since Sonar 2, though I usually upgrade very late in the cycle once all the patches have been released and the bugs are (mainly) gone.

X1 is the first time I've broken my own upgrade rule and jumped aboard early.  At this point I'm kinda sorry I did, even though I harbour no philosophical objections to the new look and workflow of X1.  I'd just like it to WORK rather than treading on eggshells in the hope it will play nice.

Of all the upgrades, Sonar 8.5 and Sonar 4 have been the standouts for me. 

Bub

Ryan ... I have already mentioned several times that the Pro Channel turned on by itself on a track without an envelope on it, but you keep coming back saying the problem is caused by an envelope.

Am I misinterpreting what you are saying? Can you please set me straight on it.

Thanks.

Hi Bub,

The shorter reply:

I'm just saying that the bug report you submitted (CWBRN-5546) was caused by an envelope and it was explainable and reproducible. If you're having other issues they are different from this particular report and we are out of the loop. There is another report on file from you (CWBRN-5492) that was a very different but also involved ProChannel. We also could not replicate it internally but the report is under investigation.

Sometimes "bugs" are actually installation related or very, very specific to a particular user's setup.

I ran into a "bug" once from installing roughly 20 different versions of Cakewalk software in succession on a test machine. It took me a long time to figure out what happened, and it literally had to do with the order of the stack of CDs sitting on my desk. Nobody else could replicate it, including an unfortunate intern who spent a lot of time researching it and losing hair, until I asked them to install in the exact order I did.

In any case, my point is that it seems you are experiencing some issues that are very difficult for others to reproduce.

The longer reply: :)

Please understand that I'm not saying ProChannel hasn't randomly turned on for you in the past... but I do not know how you expect me/us/Cakewalk/the community to help you if we cannot replicate it again and the only confirmed recipe we have turns out to be explainable and easily avoidable.

I'm just trying to ask you for more information and to clarify for you and everyone else that "ProChannel randomly turning on" is not a confirmed bug by Cakewalk. My goal in trying to clarify this is not to argue with anyone, but to let people know that if this is the behavior you or anyone is experiencing, please do not throw in the towel and accept that "this is just another bug that Cakewalk needs to fix". (by the way I'm not quoting you or anyone specifically ;)

Instead, get on the phone with us and let's have a conversation so we can either

a) explain to you why it is doing what it is doing

or

b) identify the problem and officially report it internally

I'm finding that people are confused about this issue. I have not seen reports of this via calls, emails or problem reports that have suggested this is happening to people without an explanation (such as it auto-enabling by design, or automation snapshots causing it to turn on). For the record, people DO fill out the problem report form, and they do call and email us. This isn't a matter of people just not reporting an issue to us because they don't want to take the time, and it's definitely not a matter of us not paying attention. Believe me, when things aren't working properly we tend to hear about it pretty fast.

SteveStrummerUK's issue is completely different and him and myself are working together to resolve it. I'm glad it was brought to my attention, because this is a perfect example of why nobody should assume Cakewalk already knows about a problem and then cross their fingers the next patch/update/version/miracle will correct the issue. There is a big difference between a bug in the software, and a problem with an installation. The only way we can work out the difference between the two is by working together. I'd hate to find out people aren't contacting us with installation related issues that could easily be resolved. Even more so, I'd hate to find out that those same people gave up on using SONAR because a patch didn't fix an issue that was actually related to an install problem.

If this keeps happening for you, Bub, we need more information. The only clear recipe you gave us (which was great, and I truly do thank you for taking the time), had to do with a specific scenario. If you have another project this is happening with, please let us know. I know you said it is very rare, and very hard to reproduce and I know it is frustrating to be asked for more info when you've taken the time already.

I have a very hard time saying what I need to say in few words, but if there is anything I can hopefully communicate it is this:

Please keep Cakewalk in the loop regarding problems you are experiencing by contacting us directly. As always, do not assume we catch everything by reading the forums.

Deisel401rs


bobr posted : "I have since I started with SONAR 5.  So I went SONAR 5, 6, 7, 8 and then purchased the upgrade to 8.5 with the free upgrade to X1."  There was a free upgrade from 8.5 to X1 ? Am i reading that right?

Yes, if you bought 8.5 within approx 1 month of X1 release.

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

Bub

Ryan ... I have already mentioned several times that the Pro Channel turned on by itself on a track without an envelope on it, but you keep coming back saying the problem is caused by an envelope.

Am I misinterpreting what you are saying? Can you please set me straight on it.

Thanks.

Hi Bub,

I'm just saying that the bug report you submitted (CWBRN-5546) was caused by an envelope and it was explainable and reproducible.

Ok, I understand that. Thanks.

Let me go about this a different way ...

The Pro Channel on the project I submitted was turning 'On' on both tracks 17 and 18 even though 17 did not have an envelope assigned. I didn't see the significance of mentioning that at the time, but I certainly do now.

Question: In your experience with this problem, have you seen a situation where an envelope on track 18 would cause the Pro Channel to turn 'On' on track 17 even though track 17 did not have an envelope on it?

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

Bub

Ok, I understand that. Thanks.

Let me go about this a different way ...

The Pro Channel on the project I submitted was turning 'On' on both tracks 17 and 18 even though 17 did not have an envelope assigned. I didn't see the significance of mentioning that at the time, but I certainly do now.

Question: In your experience with this problem, have you seen a situation where an envelope on track 18 would cause the Pro Channel to turn 'On' on track 17 even though track 17 did not have an envelope on it?

I've tried on multiple machines but I can't get Track 17 to turn on randomly with this project.

Ok. Just as long as you are aware that it did happen here and that's why I'm not convinced it has to do solely with envelopes. It was doing it for me constantly and suddenly stopped here too. I'm at a total loss. I'm almost leaning toward a video card problem, I know that sounds odd, but the tool bar turning gray started at the same time I put in a different video card as well. I've seen stranger things happen.

Thanks for taking the time to do the video and thanks for your help with this.

Bub.

Ok Mike, onto answering your question. :)

I've been using Cake since 3 I believe on floppy disks. I've updated every year no matter what and stopped buying Sonar stuff after Sonar 1. I really had issues with that program that put a bad taste in my mouth. A friend gave me 2.2 and I used that until I just couldn't deal with Win 98 any longer. I got a new pc with XP on it and bought Sonar 5. From there I updated every year to present.

The release of Sonar 8 really bothered me and made me start thinking about stopping my yearly updates. The Bakers worked really hard to fix issues on it though and I actually worked with Willy Jones to fix a midi issue with my V Drums that went back to Sonar 6. We fixed it by Sonar 8.2 and I really felt good about the company and how he reached out to me to help me with this issue once and for all. I also made a friend in the process in Willy to where he has helped me personally numerous times. When he got too busy, there's another "Seth" in TS that has been there for me...so I have no complaints about the service I have received from the company.

I felt 8.5 gave us a nice break in price since we had so many issues with the release of 8 and was really stable and reliable. In my mind, I was pretty much done with updates because 8.5 was/is so good to me. When I saw X1, I figured this was the future and it would probably be best to go for it thinking it would be different than 8.5 and probably would be better for me in the long run. In ways, I was right...in other ways, it's not something I HAD to have. I don't regret my purchase at all. There are things in X1 that I really enjoy...some, I do not.

That said, and this is just me speaking about it from a business standpoint, I'm having a really hard time accepting how long it's taken to make this "a final version of X1". I know the staff is working their butts off and I know there is work that goes on behind the scenes that we don't see or know about. I get all that. But I have a hard time dealing with something I buy new, not working totally nearly 8 months after my initial purchase. I'm thankful for the updates and little hot fixes, I'm thankful the Bakers stop in from time to time to help us in these threads, I know they are doing the best that they can, but I just think this release should have been put on hold and some of the decisions that were made under the hood, should have options for we that are locked in to working a certain way.

I know we have to change with the times and move on...but even Windows gave you the option of "old style" to soften the blow from all the new technology inside it, ya know what I mean? I know there are some people that don't care about how Sonar looks, but I'm one of those guys that likes to have full control over what menu's I see, what colors I see and how things are set up. Call it a flaw in my character, but I need those things and past versions of Sonar have spoiled me. I appreciate the stuff Ben and Panu have done for us, but we really shouldn't have to do those mods. They should be there for us if we want them/need them. and, I also feel that some of the long term bugs we have experienced in other versions that still exist today, should be fixed once and for all.

It's like me having a record deal with a label that hasn't settled up with me for the first album I released with them wanting me to do album 2 with them. You don't give them another album if there are things that are still not sorted out, ya know? I left a label for that and nearly sued them before they compromised with me. I don't say that to make it sound like I'd try to sue Sonar..lol..I'm just saying, before you move onto something new, it's nice to get squared up with the bad of the old if it will still exist in the new. If this label was holding out on me for album 1, you know the same thing would happen on album 2. Why go with them again...which I didn't.

So, with my feelings the way they are now, I will definitely not be upgrading as often as I have in the past. Though I have not had major show stoppers with X1 from the time it was released, there are things that I'm just not down with that we know are issues. Maybe X1c will stop them totally...but here we are again...nearly 8 months after release...I just don't think that's right and no one should have to just "accept that" because something is new and groundbreaking. I feel X1 was worth what I paid for it, but at this time, it's still not for me and I've had to force myself to like it, use it, and get used to the new work-flow. Some of the new work ethics are cool, others, no matter who tries to teach me...take longer, have more clicks and just totally annoy me. Just my take. :)

-Danny

Danny Danzi


Ok Mike, onto answering your question. :)

I've been using Cake since 3 I believe on floppy disks. I've updated every year no matter what and stopped buying Sonar stuff after Sonar 1. I really had issues with that program that put a bad taste in my mouth. A friend gave me 2.2 and I used that until I just couldn't deal with Win 98 any longer. I got a new pc with XP on it and bought Sonar 5. From there I updated every year to present.

The release of Sonar 8 really bothered me and made me start thinking about stopping my yearly updates. The Bakers worked really hard to fix issues on it though and I actually worked with Willy Jones to fix a midi issue with my V Drums that went back to Sonar 6. We fixed it by Sonar 8.2 and I really felt good about the company and how he reached out to me to help me with this issue once and for all. I also made a friend in the process in Willy to where he has helped me personally numerous times. When he got too busy, there's another "Seth" in TS that has been there for me...so I have no complaints about the service I have received from the company.

I felt 8.5 gave us a nice break in price since we had so many issues with the release of 8 and was really stable and reliable. In my mind, I was pretty much done with updates because 8.5 was/is so good to me. When I saw X1, I figured this was the future and it would probably be best to go for it thinking it would be different than 8.5 and probably would be better for me in the long run. In ways, I was right...in other ways, it's not something I HAD to have. I don't regret my purchase at all. There are things in X1 that I really enjoy...some, I do not.

That said, and this is just me speaking about it from a business standpoint, I'm having a really hard time accepting how long it's taken to make this "a final version of X1". I know the staff is working their butts off and I know there is work that goes on behind the scenes that we don't see or know about. I get all that. But I have a hard time dealing with something I buy new, not working totally nearly 8 months after my initial purchase. I'm thankful for the updates and little hot fixes, I'm thankful the Bakers stop in from time to time to help us in these threads, I know they are doing the best that they can, but I just think this release should have been put on hold and some of the decisions that were made under the hood, should have options for we that are locked in to working a certain way.

I know we have to change with the times and move on...but even Windows gave you the option of "old style" to soften the blow from all the new technology inside it, ya know what I mean? I know there are some people that don't care about how Sonar looks, but I'm one of those guys that likes to have full control over what menu's I see, what colors I see and how things are set up. Call it a flaw in my character, but I need those things and past versions of Sonar have spoiled me. I appreciate the stuff Ben and Panu have done for us, but we really shouldn't have to do those mods. They should be there for us if we want them/need them. and, I also feel that some of the long term bugs we have experienced in other versions that still exist today, should be fixed once and for all.

It's like me having a record deal with a label that hasn't settled up with me for the first album I released with them wanting me to do album 2 with them. You don't give them another album if there are things that are still not sorted out, ya know? I left a label for that and nearly sued them before they compromised with me. I don't say that to make it sound like I'd try to sue Sonar..lol..I'm just saying, before you move onto something new, it's nice to get squared up with the bad of the old if it will still exist in the new. If this label was holding out on me for album 1, you know the same thing would happen on album 2. Why go with them again...which I didn't.

So, with my feelings the way they are now, I will definitely not be upgrading as often as I have in the past. Though I have not had major show stoppers with X1 from the time it was released, there are things that I'm just not down with that we know are issues. Maybe X1c will stop them totally...but here we are again...nearly 8 months after release...I just don't think that's right and no one should have to just "accept that" because something is new and groundbreaking. I feel X1 was worth what I paid for it, but at this time, it's still not for me and I've had to force myself to like it, use it, and get used to the new work-flow. Some of the new work ethics are cool, others, no matter who tries to teach me...take longer, have more clicks and just totally annoy me. Just my take. :)

-Danny

Nice post Danny - I couldn't agree more! The part about the record company especially, as I've also been burnt by that same "organisation"!

As for me, well I started with Sonar 1, got 2, 3 then 5, 7, 8, 8.5 and then X1. Basically I like to stay up to date, but its quite rare that the features offered tempt me, although Pro Channel did help this time. I haven't had major problems, to be fair, despite using a variety of audio and midi plugins and envelopes.

It is a concern that its taken so long to get to where CW consider the product to be stable, and I will have to think hard about the next upgrade, but chances are I'll probably go for it, and I'll just have to hope its not a nightmare!

Cheers
James

I forgot to mention that the feature that drew me in to X1 was the MultiDock and screen sets!! PC was a bonus, but not the main reason I went with the upgrade.

Nope. I upgrade "every so often". (Started way back with Cakewalk Professional 2)

Currently on 8.5.3 and holding. It works just fine for me, so I'm sticking with that version for now. 
If I want to waste time figuring out a new GUI etc, then I might as well just dive into something like Reaper.

SteveStrummerUK


 
He he - Ryan, nice spot - I can see why you're so good at your job
 
I just checked and you're quite right - the problem is not quite as I described but simply that the Pro Channel isn't working at all in 64bit (working fine in 32bit though).
 
Do I need to submit another report so as to change the symptoms?
 

 
To share our findings. Steve's 64-bit version of SONAR wasn't automatically scanning the folder that stores the ProChannel components. They were never turning on in the 64-bit version of SONAR despite the blue light on the on/off buttons. Because they were never actually on, when he opened in 32-bit SONAR they would switch back "off" to reflect the state of the plug-in.

This was resolved by holding down the SHIFT key when launching SONAR x64. This forces SONAR to say "SONAR will now personalize your user settings...". Click [OK] to this message and behind the scenes it will copy over some folders and registry entries specific to your user account.

EDIT: I should add that afterwards we had to scan his VST Folders again by clicking the [Scan VST Folders] button.

Danny Danzi


Mike, I'm also sorry to de-rail your thread...I will reply to your question though. But since we have Ryan here...

Hi Ryan, I'm another one of those guys that has experienced some weird stuff with PC. I've been pretty quiet about it because I too can't seem to replicate my problem or I would create a video and send in a project as well. I believe I've even chimed in with Bub on a few posts about this.

In my experience, I have seen 2 issues with PC...all with 32 bit Sonar on a Win 7 x64 box built by Jim roseberry.

1. Saving a project with it on and reopening that project, (any project, nothing specific) sometimes it will be enabled upon opening the project, sometimes it will be disabled. I can't make it do it...it just happens when it feels like it.

2. Sometimes when PC is enabled, it isn't doing anything. I can mess with all the dials and it will not alter my sound at all. Turning it off and on doesn't work either. As a matter of fact, when it has done this to me, I can't even remember what I did to make it work again. I probably restarted Sonar or something.

But like I say I've not submitted anything because it's not something I can make happen due to something I'm doing on this end. I've never drawn any envelopes or anything to PC. I'm wondering...do you think this auto-enable may have something to do with our anomalies? Maybe something is hanging up somewhere? I'm one that always turns on the PC modules before I twist a dial unless I lose focus of the module I have up and forget it's for another track. But I'm going to watch this stuff more closely now and see if I can help out. I have no problems using the reporter, making videos or even beta testing specific things for you guys if need be. At the end of the day, if we can all help to solve these issues, it only benefits everyone. So I'll keep an eye on this and if I can replicate it consistently, I'll fill out a report, create a video and do whatever I can to help remedy the problem. :) Thanks for being a part of this thread.

-Danny

Hi Danny,

In regards to #1:

I can say that there were indeed some inconsistencies with pre/post/on/off states when saving/closing and opening projects in the past. A lot of these issues have been corrected in the recent builds however. If you saw this in the past, I'm willing to bet if was related to the previous bugs. If you're still seeing it in the latest build, can you confirm if it happens with a brand new project created in a Normal Template?

In regards to #2:

This actually sounds identical to what I was helping Steve out with above. Try performing a SHIFT launch to see if it corrects the issue.

Any problems you run into and help you're willing to provide is absolutely appreciated! I'm still of the mindset that I can usually explain the behavior that people run into with this (bold statement I know ;). If you run into a major ProChannel on/off weirdness issue, please Private Message me about it. This isn't an open invitation for everyone to PM me, but I'd like to keep up to date with this particular issue and I know you all are doing your best to share your experiences.

Thanks again everyone.

as far as recording and editing Sonar has always met my needs and then some. but as the user base becomes more experienced, so should the sounds. i would have thought the acquisition of Cakewalk, Roland in colaboration would have come up with a more realistic(unprocessed) instrument suite to bundle or seperately for sale. i have come full circle in my endeavors, the last thing i need is another synth or effect plug-in..