firefly9000
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2012/05/23 21:48:03
- Status: offline
Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
HELP!!! Can someone please tell me how to side-chain Waves C6 in X1? I don't see the C6 in available output routing. The Sonitus shows fine, but Waves C6 is absent. Am I not doing something? I've checked the sources as 'external' in the C6 so all should be fine. Yet it's absent from the drop down list on outputs.
post edited by firefly9000 - 2012/10/04 16:40:00
Screw you guys.... I'm going home... - Eric Cartman
|
cowboydan
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 908
- Joined: 2012/01/13 06:10:21
- Location: Asperen, Netherlands
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 16:33:03
(permalink)
I dont know anything about waves c6 , but I think it's a Preference issue in X1.
Danny
|
firefly9000
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2012/05/23 21:48:03
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 16:39:29
(permalink)
Hi Danny - So where exactly should I be looking in the Pref. tab... I could be blind but I've scoured that tab and could find nothing relating to this. I also read the help and according to it the C6 should appear as an option on the the output list...
Screw you guys.... I'm going home... - Eric Cartman
|
cowboydan
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 908
- Joined: 2012/01/13 06:10:21
- Location: Asperen, Netherlands
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 16:49:19
(permalink)
As far as I can see in Google is the Waves C6 a VST Plugin. In order for X2 to see the plugin you will have to go to:
Start/computer/c:/program files/Cakewalk/Vst plugins and put the c6 .dll in the folder. Sonar should find it when you start Sonar up. Otherwise when you start sonar in preferences scan the vst's again.
Danny
|
firefly9000
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2012/05/23 21:48:03
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 16:53:29
(permalink)
Danny - Thanks for the reply. It's not that I can't see it in Sonar (I can see add it just fine to the effects bin) - it's that I cannot see it as an output for side-chaining. In order to side-chain I have to be able to route signal to it. It should appear automatically as an option in the "output" drop down where you have the buses, card outputs & the rest. The Sonitus comp appears for example, but not Waves C6. What's the problem?
Screw you guys.... I'm going home... - Eric Cartman
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 16:55:04
(permalink)
|
cowboydan
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 908
- Joined: 2012/01/13 06:10:21
- Location: Asperen, Netherlands
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 16:56:56
(permalink)
Maybe you have to make a new send bus and route it to the track you want to use.
Danny
|
firefly9000
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2012/05/23 21:48:03
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 17:07:23
(permalink)
Screw you guys.... I'm going home... - Eric Cartman
|
bigboi
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 260
- Joined: 2004/03/12 00:30:41
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 17:17:29
(permalink)
Sorry....not possible right now in Sonar. Cakewalk has not adapted VST3 yet, so this fnctionality is not here. its a pretty hotly debated topic. Many think that they are waiting too long.
I7 920, 8 gigs ram, Newest gigabyte motherboard, 100 gig ssd for operating system and program files, 1 TB 7400 rpm for storage, Full V-Studio system, 2x Motu 2408 MKIII, 2x Motu 24 I/O, Maschine, Kore 2, Virus TI2, Korg m3, Novation Supernova, Novation D-station, Mo Phatt, Elektron Machine Drum, MicroKorg XL, Arturia Origin, Korg Triton, Roland jv2080-completely expanded, Avalon 737SP, 3 Sony premiere monitors, 2 event 20/20 studio monitors, Autotune AVP1, TC Helicon Voiceworks, 1 TC Electronics Powercore 6000, 1 Powercore Firewire
|
firefly9000
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2012/05/23 21:48:03
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/04 17:47:03
(permalink)
bigboi
Sorry....not possible right now in Sonar. Cakewalk has not adapted VST3 yet, so this fnctionality is not here. its a pretty hotly debated topic. Many think that they are waiting too long.
:-( I know... There was a thread on this and Noel from Cakewalk said that they didn't go for VST3 because you can pretty much do everything in VST2.4... How nearsighted and disappointing.
Screw you guys.... I'm going home... - Eric Cartman
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/05 22:30:07
(permalink)
There's a way to do 3rd-party-oriented sidechaining in some DAWs, without VST3, using the little-known "quad" or multi-channel features in VST2.x, if the host (and plugin) supports it. I know Reaper supports this (not sure if Waves does or Sonar does). The sidechaining I've done with C6 has been in Cubase (via VST3). This is the one thing that still has me clinging by a thread to Cubase and looking strongly at Studio One with its VST3 support. I'm having a serious DAW identity crisis right now. I wish I could merge the best of them all together. It's incredible how they all seem to be missing critical features that each other has. I mean, I want Cubase with Reapers audio engine, Studio One's simplicity, Logic's MIDI, unlimited inserts and sends, Sonar's smart tool, Grid and dockable UI, and MOTU's dark theme/skin. *sigh* We're getting close. One of these will have it all in a couple more years. It's not an endless goal. It's actually a very specific, complete, definable and doable set of fixed requirements (that each, individually, and currently, possesses) -- it's just who gets there first. And, a bunch of unforeseen cool bells-and-whistles to come, I really could not care less about. :-) (Or, maybe Bitwig Studio will get there first, haha.)
post edited by Jalcide - 2012/10/05 23:00:52
|
firefly9000
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 87
- Joined: 2012/05/23 21:48:03
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 00:20:05
(permalink)
I'll try looking at that. I know what you mean Jalcide - This "in between" phase is really not very productive, at least for me. I have to keep bouncing around platforms for the silliest of things. One of these days I'm going to bite the bullet and give Logic a try. I have PT but I hate it. I find Sonar much more flexible and therefore more useful when inspiration hits. Then again, it's things like these that make me think twice about it.
Reminds me of the DXi debacle. I should not have to do workarounds for things that should be the norm by now.
Noel, would you like to chime in please and tell me how I can work this out? I don't like installing and uninstalling all kinds of crap as I always get the feeling all these little workaround programs leave some sort of 'tails' in the system...
Screw you guys.... I'm going home... - Eric Cartman
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 00:44:02
(permalink)
Using Reaper's multi-vst-channel per track support (not sure if Sonar also has this VST feature), I was able to get a kick sent to a bass track and was able to use Reaper's VST container to route the kick to 3/4 on the bass track -- it's pretty cool, you actually see all 4 channels pumping on that channel's meters (1/2 being the bass, 3/4 being the kick that was send to it). But, Waves C6 Sidechain VST did not seem to see the VST2.x multichannel data being thrown at it. So, perhaps Waves only implements sidechain via VST3. I'll try the test again when I have more time. If I get it working I'll try it in Sonar to see if Sonar even has a multichannel per track implementation (unless someone wants to confirm this for us).
|
pwal
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2909
- Joined: 2004/08/24 07:15:57
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 08:50:32
(permalink)
will x2 sidechain with any plugs other than those uncluded?
|
Blogman
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 481
- Joined: 2011/02/08 02:32:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 12:34:47
(permalink)
Studio One has full VST3 support and works great for sidechaining Waves plugins (Vocal Rider, Morphoder, Waves surround plugins) Also the Quantizing of audio works really great over there too. Cubase as well does VST3. (Great staff view and scoring tool there as well). I was hoping the new DP8 for windows would have VST3 but from what I've read it won't. (although DP8 for mac is currently out, the pc version is still being tested for final release)
|
pwal
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2909
- Joined: 2004/08/24 07:15:57
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 12:43:45
(permalink)
but which 3rd party plugins are known to work with x2? (non-vst3, obv)
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 15:10:55
(permalink)
Pwal, I just tested a VST 2.4 compatible plugin called "The Glue" with its sidechain feature, in X2, and it worked perfectly. I added this compressor at the end of a lead vocal bus and enabled its sidechain feature. I then added a send on a kick drum track and indeed the sidechain input of The Glue (on the vocal bus) showed up in the list to choose from/send to. Worked great. The Glue is one of the best bus compressors (SSL circuit modeled) around, too. Its sidechain also has a nice HP filter that you can use to control its detector. It can also be used for general purpose compression duties, of course. But, it's also a mastering-grade tool suitable for the 2bus. Morgan Page (a chart-topping EDM producer) uses The Glue for just this application (in Protools, which also does not have VST3). He shows it in action and speaks highly of it in this video (about 2:15 minutes in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gzKWRzCM4k Here's The Glue by Cytomic: http://cytomic.com/glue I'm sure other VST2.x compressors with sidechain abilities would also work. Update/edit: Waves C6 Sidechain, sadly, does not work in non-VST3 hosts (the sidechain feature, that is). It could, but doesn't. Waves has chosen to abandon VST2.x for all its sidechain features. I also confirmed this with the Waves API2500. Its sidechain does not work in non-VST3 hosts (like X2). I then tried the API2500 in Studio One v2 and it works as expected. It shows up neatly in a section called "sidechains" at the end of the bus drop-down (nice!). I also tested the VST2.x The Glue in Studio One and it also works, and also shows up in this "sidechains" section. Man, Studio One v2 is looking NICE, I gotta say. Back to X2. I also saw the sidechain inputs of all Softube compressor-based products show up in X2 (FET, Summit Audio, Tube-Tech, etc.). So, there are plenty of good 3rd-party sidechain options compatible with X2 (just not Waves products, which sucks).
post edited by Jalcide - 2012/10/06 15:43:54
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 15:58:18
(permalink)
Just confirmed iZotope Alloy 2 sidechaining works in X2, as well.
Alloy 2 has a multi-band compressor (somewhat similar to Waves C6 but only 3 bands max) that supports per-band sidechain selection. There are two multi-band compressors in it, with 3 bands each. So, you might be able to get a full 6 bands by creative use of it.
Alloy 2 is another plugin I highly recommend. It's basically a zero-latency, low-cpu version of Ozone in a channel strip form. So, plenty of sidechaining, X2 options to be had.
|
Mystic38
Max Output Level: -59 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1622
- Joined: 2010/08/30 17:40:34
- Location: Mystic, CT
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 17:24:28
(permalink)
firefly9000
How nearsighted and disappointing.
a fine example of the tail wagging the dog... Sonar should be here to help us use the synths, VSTi's and plug-ins that we purchase, not dictate to us which ones we may use....
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
|
mgh
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8594
- Joined: 2007/05/10 05:15:56
- Location: betwixt and between
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 17:35:58
(permalink)
One of these days I'm going to bite the bullet and give Logic a try yes, a DAW that's MAC only and also does not support VST3 will solve all your issues...
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 17:59:37
(permalink)
i came from Logic -- over a decade of Logic. it was once great, but now greatly neglected -- ever since Apple bought Emagic. trust me, you don't want none a' that.
it crashes way more than Sonar. its UI is getting long-in-the-tooth. being Apple based, it limits your hardware choices to more expensive / less performing hardware and OS X core audio had been proven to be less performant than ASIO. dawbench.com has a write up and benchmarks on this topic.
i still have the latest version of Logic installed on my Macbook Pro, but use Cubase, there, instead (when I'm in OS X and not bootcamp).
that said, even though it does not support VST3, Logic does support AU which has a more VST3-like feature-set (like a straightforward sidechain specification). i haven't been in Logic for a while, but i'm pretty sure the Waves plugins would work with sidechaining under AU.
as much as i would like to see VST3 support in X2, the list of DAWs that support VST3 is pretty short, right now. i mean, the makers of Reaper have pretty much gone on record saying that they will never support it, for philosophical reasons. the reason Studio One supports it is they literally hired the dude that created the VST3 spec (he left Steinberg and joined PreSonus).
|
pwal
Max Output Level: -46 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2909
- Joined: 2004/08/24 07:15:57
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/06 18:12:19
(permalink)
thanks for the info jalcide, i concur that the glue is a nice compressor :)
|
Blogman
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 481
- Joined: 2011/02/08 02:32:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/07 11:58:32
(permalink)
This is (One of the reasons) why I am NOT upgrading to X2. Cakewalk does NOT have My best interest or My customers best interest at heart. Leave me in the cold, don't expect the warmth of my monetary support. Love how they whip out the Quick fixs for X2, yet left all of the X1 cutomers Unable to Fastbounce timecode plugins as of the X1D patch in MARCH. Never had the decency to 'Make it Right'. Even lied to me personally stating an update was in the works (was never in the works for X1). The Cake has Never tasted so bad or left such a bad after taste as well. Own YOUR problems, don't dis-own your customers.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/07 13:10:34
(permalink)
Every dynamics plugin I own that supports external sidechain input works fine in every version of SONAR I have, going back to SONAR 7 when sidechaining was first added to SONAR.
However, the one thing I don't have is a sidechainable multiband compressor. AFAIK, the Waves C6 plugin is the only one on the market. I think it's only been recently that anyone's really noticed the lack of multibands with external sidechain inputs. It's apparently not a widely sought-after feature, else the market would have filled the void long ago.
It should be noted that every potential application I've read about for sidechaining a multiband could easily be accomplished via a conventional compressor. Read up, for example, on how engineers managed de-essing before there were dedicated de-essers. The same principle applies to any band-specific sidechaining application, such as ducking a bass or bass drum. Any broadband compressor with a sidechain filter works.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/07 13:58:46
(permalink)
writing DAW software is rocket science, though.
in 20 years progress, across the entire world, the entire human effort combined has only been able to produce about a dozen successful companies that have reasonably competitive products (PT, Cubase, Sonar, S1, Reaper, Logic, etc).
now think how many other industries are complex enough to have only produced about 12 competitors? the auto industry, space programs, MRI and CAT scan manufactures, etc. come to mind.
they've been able to cram, what was not long ago, a 250 thousand dollar studio (magic technology in itself), into something we can toss into our backpacks.
it's absolute magic, squared.
i respectfully suggest we say "make it right" for "done wrongs." and more to the point, things that are solvable by mere mortals to throw themselves at the problem. stuff like a botched repair job on our cars, a missing part of a toy, or they used skim milk instead of 2% in our latte -- you know, the relatively easy, well understood stuff that we apes have figured out and can easily repeat.
putting extra pressure on the less than 20 in the entire world, super-coders, that are literally modelling quantum physics inside computers, is not fair or helpful.
|
Jalcide
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 48
- Joined: 2012/07/11 23:50:54
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/07 14:01:12
(permalink)
bitflipper: Alloy 2 works well for multiband sidechain tasks (via VST2.x).
post edited by Jalcide - 2012/10/07 14:24:54
|
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
- Location: Boston, MA, USA
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/07 14:11:54
(permalink)
As Bitflipper says SONAR has done sidechaining since version 7 and the work was done before VST3 was even on the horizon. SONARs implementation does something neat - like allowing multiple sources to feed the same sidechain input on a plugin. It automatically internally makes a summing bus so the user doesn't need to manage an extra bus in the project. We even have a knowledgebase article which was published over 5 years go to guide any vendors that wanted to support sidechaining in VST 2.4. There is just so much FUD on this topic its unbelievable. http://www.cakewalk.com/D...e/article.aspx?aid=102 And another describing sidechaining use in SONAR. http://www.cakewalk.com/s...reader.aspx/2007013049 Numerous plugin vendors have already done so. To clarify, the technique described in that paper at paper is The way SONAR does sidechaining is all through standard VST 2.4 there is nothing in there that is proprietary to Cakewalk. I in fact learned how to do this through plugin vendors who already supported it. Now I cannot speak for Waves - they have schedules and decisions to make just as we do, so my assumption is that they chose to only do sidechaining support in VST3 to save on development resources and implement only one solution. I forwarded the same article to their developers a couple of years ago so its not that they are unaware of the VST 2.4 method to do so - its a choice they made.
post edited by Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk] - 2012/10/07 14:18:24
|
Blogman
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 481
- Joined: 2011/02/08 02:32:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/08 10:05:01
(permalink)
Noel why don't you speak on Cakewalk's timeframe for VST3 support, and not just continue on about what all VST 2.4 can do. Your a HOST program, a HOST should NOT limit the professional. Waves are INDUSTRY STANDARD! Cakewalk Might be more of an Industry standard if Cakewalk could HOST the current VST3 standard of the INDUSTRY STANDARD Waves plugin. If you JUST want to be a plugin company, do that instead. Ask not what you can do for your Host, but what your HOST can do for you. So Noel, When's VST3 support coming? That might not even be enough for me to come back. A Great company will own it's problems and it's customer's problems and work to make it right. Noel Antares New 64bit versions of their plugins are ONLY VST3! VST has been out since 1996, VST3 HAS BEEN OUT SINCE 2008. Sonar NOT using it now it 2012 is RIDICULOUS! Noel continuing to defend Sonar NOT having VST3 support is INSULTING! Can you imagine having to tell your Cakewalk investers why more and more people are turning to other DAWs, longtime Cakewalk user. This is but ONE of my issues with Cakewalk. Most of my issues with Cakewalk is their LACK of customer/product support and their In-ability to own up to and fix their problems. Forum members are more knowledgeable than customer support and are the main reason that this software hasn't died off completely. The same members that Cake leaves out in the cold for months and months and months. Oh well I guess this is the choice Noel and Cakewalk made for everyone. Is there an Election coming up soon? Any way to get someone with MORE VISION in power up there? If you're not moving forwards, you're moving backwards! With tremendous speed, you are moving BACKWARDS! With ALL of your X troubles, VST3 could've been one of the few things you got right with this release. I'm sure steinberg would be happy to help you with compatibility. Give us the pickle or we'll go to a burger joint that CAN and will provide us the PICKLE.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/08 10:20:37
(permalink)
Noel continuing to defend Sonar NOT having VST3 support is INSULTING! Would you be insulted further if I told you that Noel is absolutely right?
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
Blogman
Max Output Level: -81 dBFS
- Total Posts : 481
- Joined: 2011/02/08 02:32:48
- Status: offline
Re:Sidechaining Waves C6 in X1??? HOW??
2012/10/08 10:36:39
(permalink)
No, coming from a fan boi like yourself, I'm not insulted at all. It takes a lot to insult me. I'm very comfortable in my shoes. That's very cute of you to defend Noel.
|