Rain
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 17:53:08
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Moshkiae
In the end, if this is a movie studio or a record company ... they deserve to get stolen from ... they have robbed and killed more people, that in the end this is just kharma and dharma having its yen and yang.
The fallacy in that assertion is that the big execs are the one who'll suffer from it. Every one involved in the movie business, from the canteen staff to the vehicle coordinator to the electricians will be impacted before the big guys. That's how the system is designed. Those guys will NEVER lose money. They'll sacrifice everything under them until there isn't a profit left for them to make. Then, they'll just close shop, issue themselves a big check for compensation and leave the decent folks unemployed.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Crg
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 17:53:50
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Of course it's a matter of degree. Sale and use of someones intelectual property for monetary gain without their knowledge or permission is the degree.
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Moshkiae
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 18:14:41
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The fallacy in that assertion is that the big execs are the one who'll suffer from it. Every one involved in the movie business, from the canteen staff to the vehicle coordinator to the electricians will be impacted before the big guys. That's how the system is designed. Those guys will NEVER lose money. They'll sacrifice everything under them until there isn't a profit left for them to make. Then, they'll just close shop, issue themselves a big check for compensation and leave the decent folks unemployed. No different than Wall St ... the rich get tricher and (as we used to say in Brazil and Mexico) ... the poor get the leftovers! And a lot of "record company" folks are really not happy that everyone can do their own thing and studios and whores and publicists and what not, are no longer necessary ... but in some ways ... we're upset because we can not get the "benefits" ... yes we can ... you just can't have the expensive places, like the Arlene Schnitzler Hall! But yeah, some of the touring ... you are on your own ... you know what? ... I want it that way! And those perfumes don't turn me on!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Beepster
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 18:32:07
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aaand that brings us back to my original sentiment. If the money being collected by the RIAA and the like was actually ending up in the pockets of those who actually created and produced the arts I'd be more than happy to support the cause. However it is not or if it is it is a very small percentage and only enough to benefit those who are already mega rich.
Just set yourself up on your own and leave those bastards out of the picture. You may not make a million bucks doing it but very few do. If you cover your costs great. If you make a bit of extra cash. Bonus. If you manage to actually break through all the barriers and forces against you and make it big on your own... then you have set a precedent that we all should be striving for to put finally put a nasty, greedy industry in its place and your cover of My Way will have true meaning... but of course you'll likely have to pay some greasy shart for the privilege of doing so maybe write your own song of self reliance and triumph.
One thing a lot of people don't understand or willfully ignore is the existing copyright laws already covered all this stuff. The whole idea of making something that's already illegal MORE illegal is silly and sadly we see more and more of this type of behavior. Why? Politics. That's why. More money for campaign coffers and more intrusions into peoples freedoms and privacy. It's smoke and mirrors, baby.
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
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Crg
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 18:47:59
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Unless you own and operate the entire communication system here on earth, you will have to pay for access to the media you need to sell your product. The RIAA and other similar groups have nothing to do with piracy. The pirates pay noone authorized, not even the artist. The secret network that exists to foster piracy, is unknown even to the pirates who get held responsible for posting the sites that are exposed. If you think that these people know who runs them, you are wrong. Piracy of music and media are done through store fronts on the internet. When the "police" go there to arrest the perpetrators, there is nothing there but a communication outlet and a empty high end-computer-server-internet tie in point. It will be back up and running from somewhere else before they figure out where it came from.
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Beepster
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 18:59:15
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So what can you do?
Well here's what you do. You create legitimate online sales environments that offer the products people are illegally downloading for rates that they are willing to pay. You make it easy. You make it enjoyable. Then you will draw the people who are doing it because they feel the costs and hassle to acquire the end product are out of line. You will also snare in the folks who feel guilty about torrents but can't really afford the current rates. Most people are benevolent and want to pay but they look at a couple megs of data and the cost associated with them, the ease of online delivery, the lack of manufacturing, the high profits to the execs, the low percentage paid to the artist and the general arse-iness of the industry and say "Screw this! It's not worth it."
The industry needs to change its approach to fix this. By all means go after violators wherever possible but you can't stop this completely. More flies with honey, blah blah woof woof.
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jbow
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:07:27
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Or am I missing the point completely?
No, you are quite right. It is hard to see the line much less stay on one side of it, but we can try? I imagine I have "unauthorized" videos on my Youtube page... but they are good videos, most of them! I have a few uploaded that I think are pretty exclusive. A multipart ABB video that I did not make but was expressly made(by the creator for free distribution) and an AWB concert that no one has asked me to take down. About 5-8-10 years ago there was a site online that had a multitude of concerts online, most were audio, some were video and many were from The Fillmores and Winterland. I think, not sure though, that it evolved into Wolfgangs Vault... but that is only a guess. Anyway I downloaded these two and uploaded them to YT. No one complains, I think people enjoy them and I don't think that they are available commercially. I had to take down an Albert King video because the owner complained... no problem, took it down. I've no problem taking things down if asked and most of my videos are from what others have uploaded and I have just favorited anyway. The Gibson neck tenon video is good but I really do not remember where I got it. https://www.youtube.com/user/jbow?feature=mhee if you care to look. Julien J
post edited by jbow - 2012/11/23 19:17:48
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Crg
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:14:56
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More flies with honey, blah blah woof woof. This too shall Pass? Somebody somewhere thinks you owe them for knowing about music also. They think they can sue you by selling your work in music, because they know how. How do you live with that?
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Beepster
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:15:21
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Yeah, much like everything these days everything has to be completely polarized. There is no nuanced answers to complex problems. You are either with us or against us. There will be gnashing of teeth, raised blood pressures and split lips. Debate and public policy must be a bloodsport. The starving masses will not be pleased without their bread and circus. If you are against piracy the perpetrators must be shot. If you are for piracy every copyright everywhere must be abolished and no one is allowed to make even the tiniest profit or even break even for their life's work.
It's saddening really.
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Crg
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:16:35
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We are all missing the point. The point eludes us or it wouldn't be happening.
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Rain
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:17:22
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Beepster
So what can you do?
Well here's what you do. You create legitimate online sales environments that offer the products people are illegally downloading for rates that they are willing to pay. You make it easy. You make it enjoyable. Then you will draw the people who are doing it because they feel the costs and hassle to acquire the end product are out of line. You will also snare in the folks who feel guilty about torrents but can't really afford the current rates. Most people are benevolent and want to pay but they look at a couple megs of data and the cost associated with them, the ease of online delivery, the lack of manufacturing, the high profits to the execs, the low percentage paid to the artist and the general arse-iness of the industry and say "Screw this! It's not worth it."
The industry needs to change its approach to fix this. By all means go after violators wherever possible but you can't stop this completely. More flies with honey, blah blah woof woof.
Songs are legally available for 99 cents on iTunes (and other services). Albums usually retail for $9.99. All one click away. I don't know how much less expensive this could be. If my songs aren't even worth 99 cents in my own eye, then there is no issue. I'll give them away. If someone downloads our work for free, even the official "big label" releases, he's not hurting "the industry" - as convenient as it may seem an excuse. He's stealing from US, directly. If the argument is that he wouldn't pay for it anyway, then, fine - but if it has no value to him, why the heck download it? It's like eating in a restaurant and refusing to pay the bill on the pretense that you have food at home and could have filled your stomach in the comfort of your own place.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Beepster
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:19:18
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This too shall Pass? Somebody somewhere thinks you owe them for knowing about music also. They think they can sue you by selling your work in music, because they know how. How do you live with that? ??? I've actually found my stuff being peddled by pirates. Sure it pisses me off but you know what? They aren't making nearly as much money off it as I did... and I really didn't make that much off of it to begin with. In the retail/loss prevention world it is referred to as "shrinkage". What? I just got out the pool! ;-)
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jbow
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double post... deleted.
2012/11/23 19:22:45
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deleted
post edited by jbow - 2012/11/23 19:28:43
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Crg
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:25:05
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Beepster
Yeah, much like everything these days everything has to be completely polarized. There is no nuanced answers to complex problems. You are either with us or against us. There will be gnashing of teeth, raised blood pressures and split lips. Debate and public policy must be a bloodsport. The starving masses will not be pleased without their bread and circus. If you are against piracy the perpetrators must be shot. If you are for piracy every copyright everywhere must be abolished and no one is allowed to make even the tiniest profit or even break even for their life's work.
It's saddening really.
I couldn't agree with you more.
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Beepster
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 19:29:18
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@rain... Amazon is a spectacular example of how to do it right. That is why they are so profitable. That is the way the music industry needs to expand to secure their fate. They seem to be catching on but it is still a long way off.
I mentioned the embedded reg code info that Platinum Samples employs. That would be a good way to cut down on the uploaders to stop it dead in it's tracks. Maybe even some kind of beacon software so if something gets publicly uploaded the company can file their DMCA stuff almost immediately.
We aren't going to be able to stop them all so there needs to be some creativity employed to curb it and a certain level of acceptance that you just won't be able to stop it all. Also there are far worse crimes in the world that need the attention of our strained justice system right now. You have to consider the larger picture of the detriment the current approach is having on society and tax revenues. They ain't court fees for this stuff and many of the cases brought forth are frivolous. That is the fault of the lawyers mostly though. They throw whatever they can at the wall and see what sticks. That costs everyone far more money in the long run.
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Beepster
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Re:An interesting post about piracy...
2012/11/23 21:30:40
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I hope you guys don't take offense to my views on this. I just have far too much time alone to ponder such silliness and this particular subject hits close to home. I've been taken advantage of enough times by both sides of this coin (parasitic industry folks and parasitic fans). I've never seen anything close to a proper return on my art unless I've completely taken the initiative and controlled my own fate. I may never be rich because of the way I intend to operate but I'll also not have to deal with being disappointed by fast talkers who promise the world or go gray trying to chase down deadbeats who just want to listen to my tunes.
It is quite possible I'm an idiot... but hey, I'm too old and crusty to give a crap these days. I just wanna make as much music as I can before I die.
Peace.
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