Yup, and pretty much the rest of the worlds. The American track and field  phenomena i just one other example of the same thing. When the whole world saw Armstrong as a criminal cheat the American publics responce was that the whole thing was a huge conspiration. Everything Armstrong has done publicly since battling cancer is based on a lie.

ampfixer

SwedishPete


He's a cheat like most American athlets. USA is todays East Germany when it comes to doping.

B*ll*hit. That's just you opinion.

Did he admit to pedalling?

Say it Ain't So

SwedishPete


Yup, and pretty much the rest of the worlds. The American track and field  phenomena i just one other example of the same thing. When the whole world saw Armstrong as a criminal cheat the American publics responce was that the whole thing was a huge conspiration. Everything Armstrong has done publicly since battling cancer is based on a lie.

ampfixer

SwedishPete


He's a cheat like most American athlets. USA is todays East Germany when it comes to doping.

B*ll*hit. That's just you opinion.

The former Soviet Union with it's female weightlifters...back in the 1960's and 1970's. 


Everyone was in on it.


It even has become something of an issue on the amateur level now.


Sigh....

mike_mccue


He's trying to tell the truth now.

It really seems like he's figured it out.

At one point he explained to Oprah that he sincerely did not realize how angry most of his doubters had become. 

I can imagine that the fanfare and hero worship could have made it easy to become deluded and not realize how sincere the people who couldn't stand with the lies would feel about the subject.

Ir really seems like he's figured it out.... he even mentioned that at some point he realized that his kids were having to lie the lie as well... and that he finally realized that just telling it all as the wide open truth is the only pathway to rescue anything that he may hope to have for the remainder of his life.




I felt proud for him as I watched him come clean.

He was a phenomenal bicycle rider... he just made some really horrible mistakes and now he is paying for it. 

When Nike canceled him last week it cost 75 million dollars.

He's figuring stuff out and he says he realizes that not everyone is going to be able to forgive him. He knows he did some horrible stuff to some people. He seems to know that all he has left is an opportunity to tell the truth and let the truth be what it is.

I hope people give him a chance to make the best of it.


best regards,
mike

Proud of him? Here's what it would take for me to feel even remotely proud. Give back every single dime he ever got from sponsors. Pay back every single dime one of his many accusers had to spend to defend themselves from his pack of lawyers that tried to sue them for telling the truth. Admit he was the ring leader that required his team mates to use PED's in order to be on his team. Pay back every dime one of his accusers lost in income after he effectively ran them from the sport.


Start with that. Then we can start talking about the lie that he quit using PED's in 05, when in fact, irrefutable evidence shows he used in 09-10.


Figured it out? Yeah, he figured out he got caught.






Randy

I think the idea that he forced his team mates to use is missing the mark.

I think the general increase in speed in competition... which is well documented... and clearly associated with the popularization of the drugs... is what compelled each individual to go out and buy their own stash of help.

The team was made of people who could actually stay with the group out on the road... if you couldn't keep up with the group you weren't going to feel welcome on the team.

I don't think there was much of a need to make demands face to face the way some say it happened.

If you read all the statements you see that most of the riders that did use the advanced drugs were eager to have access to them and the ones that weren't were slowly spit out of the back of the framework of competitive cycling.

I have been literally screamed at for over 20 years for daring to state that I had an informed opinion about drugs in cycling. I've been screamed at by people who couldn't handle the truth. I've been screamed at by defenders of Lance Armstong that wouldn't know which end of a bicycle is the front.

At this juncture, it is my informed opinion that the truth is that very few people were personally coerced to take the drugs. The demands placed upon the other riders was that they ride strong. It was very simple.




And that brings me back to the frame work... an organized collection of sports marketers who benefited from the universal increase in speed and excitement in bicycle racing.

The framework enjoyed team budgets that mushroomed into substantial monies. The framework enjoyed basking in the proximity of cyclist celebrities as they set new records and attracted the attention of people previously uninterested in our sport. 

The framework is what coerced all the other team leaders and most of the supporting riders into compromising their values.

Everyone guilty of doping was in it for the pay check.

The choice was always very simple. Do it or don't.



Lance seemed to be on the leading edge of using the advanced drugs... there weren't many as good as he was at it before him, but there were some.

Miguel Indurain has never seemed to have to deal with this. He seems to be the only guy that hasn't come clean. As the dominate player just before Lance's tenure, one could use him as an example of a rider that through domination of the field, more or less coerced people like Lance to get with the program, but Lance didn't speak about stuff like that last night.

I felt he and Oprah could have explained the nature of the every rider for himself training culture that is part of cycling. I think it would have helped explain to the public how the frame work came to so easily abuse MOST of the riders and ALL of the fans 



Lance's admission last night is the first step in the actual truth being told.

It was a good thing.

Maybe some of those people who did indeed suffer from Lances wreck less wrath will enjoy some small recourse now. They deserve every bit of it.

I feel that I can be proud for Lance's decision without deprecating the concerns of the victims of his actual personal attacks.


best regards,
mike 

In all seriousness, I imagine Lance leading a large congregation 10 years from now.

He may not know it yet.

He will end up in prison, just like Marion Jones.

mike_mccue


In all seriousness, I imagine Lance leading a large congregation 10 years from now.

He may not know it yet.

craigb

spacey

SteveStrummerUK


Did he admit to pedalling?

I didn't watch but what difference does it make? He is a liar so there
is no reason to listen to anything he says.

I think that was a joke there Michael!

I know. But I wasn't.
 
And you let me down Craig.
Quoting this instead of the level headed post. Now that was some funny ****.
You're the only one that appreciates my warped humor and now it looks like
it's questionable.
 
Oh well....at least they're my balls and I'm going home.....more than that liar can say.
 
 

Yup, there's money to be made in leading large congregations...big money...and I too can see Lance doing that.  In fact he'd be a perfect fit.  He's already got the charlatan part down pat.

It's not the doping.  It's not even the lying about the doping.  It's the anger, indignation and "how dare you believe I could do such a thing you sick bastard...I'll sue you for everything your worth" attitude for so long and to so many that precludes forgiveness.  Even this "confession" is a very calculated move. 

I didn't see the interview, but I really want to know how he made it past all the drug screening tests. It seems like the stuff he was using was well known, so how did 100's of tests not show any evidence?

I guess my real question is, were the drug testers involved as well?

I find it fascinating on some level. Many moons ago I rented a condo off of a lady that had a Phd in sports medicine. I had to have her visit me to get approval for some landscaping I wanted to do. 

While we were chatting I asked her what she was working on and I was shocked by the answer. She said she had just come back from Eastern Europe where she had been working in a private lab for 6 months. The sole purpose of the lab was to study doping in competitive sports. They were analyzing all the methods available for doping and how to detect them. It seems that the two go hand in hand. If you really understand the screening methods you can be a better doper.

I swear I'm not making this up. It seems that there was a bunch of money in this field. She was 10 years younger than me, drove a BMW and I was renting her condo. This was in 1982 as I recall. 

At the end of the day it's all about money and athletes are just race horses with 2 legs. Another personal perspective on the topic. A guy I know was an All Canadian (don't laugh) college football player. After school he got a try out with CFL football club. At training camp he hurt a ligament in his knee. The team doctor pulled out a needle to give him a shot of pain killer. He said no way, because he figured he would ruin his knee if it was numb. That was the end of his football career. The team felt he didn't have the right stuff to turn pro.

That's 2 real life examples I know of, so this sport/drug interdependence must be massive and very profitable. How will it ever change if remains so profitable?